An Analysis on the 144,000 in Revelation

[Rhomphaeam]

I do agree that there seems to be some unbiblical beliefs but why do you not debate with women? Truth is important.

I didn't say that I don't debate with women - I said that I don't wrestle with women - and predicated that by calling her sister. As to why - then her own words ought to be sufficient to make my reason plain. Words are not a game and when someone asserts that it would be better for me to go and be with the Lord than to cause one of His little ones to stumble (when little ones means the woman who speaks the words) - I know they are neither a prophet nor speaking the truth. Her words are utter nonsense. But her claims are severe - and they amount to imputing curses. If a brother had made the same attempt I would have rebuked him so plainly that he would never speak to me again.

 

[godlovejoy]

Discernment wasn't one of the benefits of being sealed then, sister. So why do you say that I should NOT be jealous? You make an awful lot of my faith - being yet in unbelief - to cite yourself - and appear to be concerned that I reject you because I made a somewhat British cadence to incredulity of your claims. You say that you journalised your experience. So why not express the material claim - rather than provoke a claim with no substance to either receive it or else as a means to test it?

I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t Believe me and pick a part my material claim but I can take a picture of the journal entry you probably won’t be able to follow it because I squeeze it all in and it goes from different directions But even after the journal entry, the spirit of God comes to me later and explains what happened this has happened on many occasions when God shows me something or does something He will come and talk to me and explain what he did. I had been reading about the sealing of the priest the Levitical priest, the sealing in the forehead the Breast and shoulders I felt the pressing of the seal into my forehead and I didn’t quite understand what it was until later when I was reading about the Sealing of the priest then God revealed it to me that that’s what he did he sealed me in the forhead and that’s when I fell off my chair realizing what he had done...I don’t feel worthy it was just amazing...all I did was forsake all others and follow him and he was willing to do these great wonderous things for me....there’s lits more but It’s quicker and easier to just believe me just receive the sweet loving spirit of God.

Okay so let me see if I understand. Are you saying only 144,000 people will be saved?

No But a Kingdom must have qualified people in authority to rule over and minister to Gods people. Heaven will have many levels so to speak It’s like the temple where there’s the outer core and the inner core and the holy of holies

Okay so let me see if I understand. Are you saying only 144,000 people will be saved?

No But the chosen 144000 will make up the hierarchy of rule and authority in the kingdom of God Like the temple of David had an outer court inner court and the holy of holy’s the priest who is chosen by God and given the authority to make sacrifices on behalf of God’s people he was the only one allowed in the holy of holy’s face-to-face with the Lord on behalf of the people is to benefit all of gods people

 

[godlovejoy]

I didn't say that I don't debate with women - I said that I don't wrestle with women - and predicated that by calling her sister. As to why - then her own words ought to be sufficient to make my reason plain. Words are not a game and when someone asserts that it would be better for me to go and be with the Lord than to cause one of His little ones to stumble (when little ones means the woman who speaks the words) - I know they are neither a prophet nor speaking the truth. Her words are utter nonsense. But her claims are severe - and they amount to imputing curses. If a brother had made the same attempt I would have rebuked him so plainly that he would never speak to me again.

Where is the imputed curse you are referring too? I’m simply giving my testimony if you feel cursing it’s not from me it’s from God spirit I’m anointed and Jesus has not come to bring peace but to bring a double edged sword which...pierces to the heart....I speak but someone like yourself will hear judgement Because of the anointing God is with his anointed. There is no place where I cursed you

 

[Rhomphaeam]

if you feel cursing it’s not from me it’s from God spirit I’m anointed and Jesus has not come to bring peace but to bring a double edged sword which...pierces to the heart....I speak but someone like yourself will hear judgement Because of the anointing God is with his anointed.

Et angelo Pergami ecclesiæ scribe: Hæc dicit qui habet rhomphæam utraque parte acutam: Revelation 2:12

Don't play with words, sister. You are not nearly a scribe to use them properly.

 

[godlovejoy]

Et angelo Pergami ecclesiæ scribe: Hæc dicit qui habet rhomphæam utraque parte acutam: Revelation 2:12

Don't play with words, sister. You are not nearly a scribe to use them properly.

Yes exactly! The chosen disciples were fishermen regular humble people Who believed God at the time of visitation and it was the Pharisees and scribes that Jesus put the judgment upon.....He called them hypocrites whitewashed tombs and that their father was the Devil this is the Jesus we follow..

 

[godlovejoy]

Yes exactly! The chosen disciples were fishermen regular humble people Who believed God at the time of visitation and it was the Pharisees and scribes that Jesus put the judgment upon.....He called them hypocrites whitewashed tombs and that their father was the Devil this is the Jesus we follow..

Hebrews 4:12 ESV / 44 helpful votes
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

 

[godlovejoy]

Hebrews 4:12 ESV / 44 helpful votes
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I love these too:
Revelation 1:12-16 ESV / 19 helpful votes
Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength.
Psalm 149:6 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Let the high praises of God be in their throats and two-edged swords in their hands,

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Leviticus 26 - seven times punishment to be removed from THEIR LAND and scattered among the heathen. The Assyrians didn't take all the tribes at once but more one at a time. In the order they were taken, 2520 years later 'nations' came into being. If you take 1776 and subtract 2520 you will find the nation that went into captivity that year (7 times 360)
Judah went into Babylonian captivity and 2520 years later Israel became a nation again. Just like GOD SAID and it is written.

Here's a post I made in the past, on that Subject [of timing issues] (though differing, it seems, from "dates" you are drawing from... unless I'm misunderstanding your point):


[quoting old post]

Here's how I'm seeing that.

--FROM 537bc [the "Return to Israel" from captivity]

TO 1948ad [Nation of Israel]

= 2520y (factored in 360 day years, as "time-prophecies" relating to Israel are often factored); and




--FROM 518bc [the "Temple Rebuilding"]

TO 1967ad [Jerusalem Regained (apart from which, there can be no temple)]

= 2520y (ditto the above)




--[I believe there are two other connections, but can't quote them off the top of my head...]




...the equation (in the above) being, "Ezekiel 4 minus 2 Chronicles 36:21 times Leviticus 26 equals 2520 years" (2520 years of 360-day years, in the above-mentioned ones).


--Ezekiel 4 is 430 yrs, 360 yrs of which were "remaining"; and


--[minus] 2Chronicles 36:21, "until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years [70 yrs]"; and


--[times] Leviticus 26 4x says (basically) [re: Israel],


"[but if not, then]... I will punish you seven times more for your sins."



So (when examined), we see [360y (remained) x 7 = 2520y]




I think this has to be more than "coincidence" (and acknowledging the stages shown to be expected in the Ezekiel 37 chpt ["dry bones prophecy" regarding Israel])



[caveat: I've posted before that I see Scripture referring to "the fig tree" as something DISTINCT from "Israel" (which according to Isa5:7 "the VINEYARD of the Lord of hosts is the house OF ISRAEL"... and according to the parable in Lk13:6 "[a certain man] had A FIG TREE planted IN his VINEYARD"--showing there to be two DISTINCT items, though somewhat in relation to each other, that are NOT IDENTICAL... so I'm not really convinced that "the fig tree parable" in Matt24:32-34/Mk13:28-30/Lk21:29-32 speaks specifically of "Israel," but more like something associated with Israel (which itself is identified as the "vineyard")]


[end quoting old post]



____________


In view of the above (as well as what I'd put in my previous post), I'm not seeing from Scripture how one (presently) can consider themselves as one of "the 144,000" (of that ONE NATION [Israel])... nor how others view "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (us) as the "a great multitude... of all the nations [plural]" (Rev7:9,14) ALSO of that future, specific, LIMITED time period that LEADS UP TO Christ's Second Coming to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (aka "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER"), promised to ISRAEL (and her "guests [plural]")

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Yes exactly! The chosen disciples were fishermen regular humble people Who believed God at the time of visitation and it was the Pharisees and scribes that Jesus put the judgment upon.....He called them hypocrites whitewashed tombs and that their father was the Devil this is the Jesus we follow...

You don't know what I have said to you when I quoted Revelation 2:12 from the Vulgate.

And why do you not see the direction of your own words? You are using a vain method to communicate your claims to myself (expressly in my claim that your words amount to imputed curses) and you falter into an opportunity to cite a premise that has to do with Pharisees and Scribes because you are told that you are not nearly a scribe in your misuse of words and the direction of them in their ordinary meaning. You vainly imagine that simple is a praise worthy claim and by inference learning is vain. Yet I haven't spoken of either simplicity or learning.

So seeing as you intend to press your meanings fully - by citing Hebrews 4:12 which speaks of the division of soul and spirit - answer your own claim regarding the sealing of the priests on the forehead in your post to myself @#142

I had been reading about the sealing of the priest the Levitical priest, the sealing in the forehead the Breast and shoulders I felt the pressing of the seal into my forehead and I didn’t quite understand what it was until later when I was reading about the Sealing of the priest then God revealed it to me that that’s what he did he sealed me in the forhead and that’s when I fell off my chair realizing what he had done

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I didn't say that I don't debate with women - I said that I don't wrestle with women - and predicated that by calling her sister. As to why - then her own words ought to be sufficient to make my reason plain. Words are not a game and when someone asserts that it would be better for me to go and be with the Lord than to cause one of His little ones to stumble (when little ones means the woman who speaks the words) - I know they are neither a prophet nor speaking the truth. Her words are utter nonsense. But her claims are severe - and they amount to imputing curses. If a brother had made the same attempt I would have rebuked him so plainly that he would never speak to me again.

Gotcha okay wasn't sure what wrestling meant.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

lol. This does not mean that a descendent of this person did not stay with God.. Look at the history of Israel.

God promised a remnant. He promised these people a promise.. He keeps his promises.

I do not need to know who it is. God does.. Let just let God figure out who they are.

We do need to know, because no matter who they are, they'll preach the true gospel and many will follow them, while all the rest of the world being deceived.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Beautiful Post!! Yes these are the Elect or Chosen of God for many are called but few are chosen the chosen make themselves worthy of the lamb to become one with Jesus at the marriage supper of the Lamb! on the earth they will give the testimony of Jesus as the two witnesses the same are also the 144000, Representing the holy ones that God has chosen both Jew and gentile male and female black and white of all races, using that symbolic number 12 for the authority and anointing of the apostles having their place in Heaven judging the 12 Tribes. They will Be given power to do great works in the earth Before they are resurrected in the first resurrection and after they are caught up to the throne at the First and more blessed Resurrection, they become like the angels and one with Jesus. At the marriage supper of the Lamb Jesus will appoint to each the Works and position they will have in the kingdom of heaven as this will be their rewards. then Jesus will take his saints back to earth with him to rule and reign and set up the Kingdom!!

Thank you for your kind words! Yes, in the last days God will pour out His spirit and preserve His chosen people. And by the criteria in Numbers, only men at fighting age between 20-50 are "numbered", so these 144,000 are just the "first fruits", a great multitude of all tribes, tongues and nations as the remnant church will be delivered.

 

[Absolutely]

Has anyone experienced a sealing in their forehead? I have!

Show me in any of the epistles a sealing in the forehead of only a select few.
I think it says we all are.

 

[Absolutely]

Pre-trib rapture never came out of the Mouth of God.
Always remember that the Word says = "no lie comes from the truth."

And yet Jesus is sitting on a cloud gathering his people from the earth in rev 14 during the gt.

Add it up.

 

[Absolutely]

Pre-trib rapture never came out of the Mouth of God.
Always remember that the Word says = "no lie comes from the truth."

From Gods mouth;
Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Right.

The 144,000 (from ONE NATION), in vv.3-8, are set in contradistinction to the "a great multitude... of all the nationS [PLURAL]" in vv.9-17 "coming out of the GREAT tribulation" (i.e. out of the second half of the future "7 yr period')...

... who are the SAME "all the nations [plural]" to whom Matt24:14 / 26:13 WILL BE being preached (that is, to same "nations [plural]," same "future" time-period... i.e. during the "IN THE NIGHT" time-period commonly called the tribulation period... a specific, "future," LIMITED time-period leading UP TO Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19;

these "nations [plural]" are those whom Scripture informs of as "those [plural] HAVING BEEN INVITED" [TO the wedding / marriage FEAST / SUPPER of the Lamb (aka the EARTHLY MK age)]... distinct from "the MARRIAGE" itself [pertaining to "the Bride / Wife [SINGULAR]" alone, and which "marriage" will have already taken place by this Rev19 point in time, when He's getting ready to "RETURN" to the earth]; the "guestS [plural]" themselves are still located on the earth upon His "RETURN" there, they never LIFT OFF the earth [and never were promised such]... nor do the "10 [or 5] VirginS [PLURAL]" whom He ALSO is NOT "MARRYING" )

It's not that complicated. In the OT prophecies Israel was frequently compared as a naughty wife who "played the harlot", but she's still a wife and God'll redeem her; while other nations are just harlots under the Babylonian system worshiping false idols.

 

[Absolutely]

Beautiful Post!! Yes these are the Elect or Chosen of God for many are called but few are chosen the chosen make themselves worthy of the lamb to become one with Jesus at the marriage supper of the Lamb! on the earth they will give the testimony of Jesus as the two witnesses the same are also the 144000, Representing the holy ones that God has chosen both Jew and gentile male and female black and white of all races, using that symbolic number 12 for the authority and anointing of the apostles having their place in Heaven judging the 12 Tribes. They will Be given power to do great works in the earth Before they are resurrected in the first resurrection and after they are caught up to the throne at the First and more blessed Resurrection, they become like the angels and one with Jesus. At the marriage supper of the Lamb Jesus will appoint to each the Works and position they will have in the kingdom of heaven as this will be their rewards. then Jesus will take his saints back to earth with him to rule and reign and set up the Kingdom!!

they will give the testimony of Jesus as the two witnesses the same are also the 144000, Representing the holy ones that God has chosen both Jew and gentile male and female black and white of all races, using that symbolic number 12 for the authority and anointing of the apostles having their place in Heaven judging the 12 Tribes

Sorta, but the 144k are strictly and exclusively ethnic Jews.

The Holy Spirit blocked all notions trying to change that fact by vividly describing, and framing them, exclusively as Jews.

 

[Absolutely]

Go home and pray for your rapture, friend.

already at my house, rested, alert, and hoping you can answer a few challenges.

When did you become a moderator ordering people around?

The mildest hint of anything outside your limited scope causes you such upheaval.

 

[Absolutely]

They "sang a new song", and "in their mouths found no deceit", and then right after that in 14:6 there's an angel with "everlasting gospel," all of these indicate they're preaching. How do you know they're not then? You can't.

It is clear the 144k are in heaven, while the angels are preaching the gospel.

If you want to make your case, there could be a chance that the 144k WERE AT ONE TIME preaching the gospel, but now that the 144k are in heaven, it is up to angels?

But, unfortunately ,for the postrib position, any way you modify it, the fact remains that the 144k are in heaven in rev 14.
....which rips postrib rapture to shreds.
That has to hurt.

It was just a bad choice jettisoning the pretrib rapture verses and allowing those erroneous teachers access to your mind.

 

[Absolutely]

Thank you for your kind words! Yes, in the last days God will pour out His spirit and preserve His chosen people. And by the criteria in Numbers, only men at fighting age between 20-50 are "numbered", so these 144,000 are just the "first fruits", a great multitude of all tribes, tongues and nations as the remnant church will be delivered.

God does "preserve" his chosen people.

Not in the gt though.
The ac is given power to overcome the saints.
And he does just that.

BTW, ALL the apostles, save john, were killed by the devil, not "preserved"