Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!
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Hi John that argument he is now using has come up before and has been answered.
Genesis 19:23-25
King James Version
23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Luke 17:28-30
King James Version
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Lamsa Bible
Even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbouring cities which in like manner gave themselves over to fornication, and followed after other carnal lusts, are condemned to judgment and placed under everlasting fire;
Haweis New Testament
As Sodom and Gomorrha and the surrounding cities, in like manner with them abandoned to whoredom, and going after other flesh, are set forth an example, suffering the judicial punishment of eternal fire.
Weymouth New Testament
So also Sodom and Gomorrah--and the neighboring towns in the same manner--having been guilty of gross fornication and having gone astray in pursuit of unnatural vice, are now before us as a specimen of the fire of the Ages in the punishment which they are undergoing.
Worsley New Testament
as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them, in like manner with them committing lewdness, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of perpetual fire.
Young's Literal Translation
as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.
"
Are set forth (προκειντα). Present middle indicative of προκειμα, old verb, to lie before, as in Hebrews 12:1 (NAS)
1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
Click link to access powerful study resources in a new window.
Powered by StudyTagger™ from StudyLight.org
" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">Hebrews 12:1.
As an example (δειγμα). Predicate nominative of δειγμα, old word (from δεικνυμ to show), here only in N.T., sample, specimen. 2 Peter 2:6 (NAS)
6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;
Click link to access powerful study resources in a new window.
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">2 Peter 2:6 has υποδειγμα (pattern).
Suffering (υπεχουσα). Present active participle of υπεχω, old compound, to hold under, often with δικην (right, justice, sentence 2 Thessalonians 1:9 (NAS)
9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Click link to access powerful study resources in a new window.
Powered by StudyTagger™ from StudyLight.org
" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">2 Thessalonians 1:9) to suffer sentence (punishment), here only in N.T.
Of eternal fire (πυρος αιωνιου). Like δεσμοις αιδιοις in verse Jude 1:7 (NAS)
Are set forth (προκειντα). Present middle indicative of προκειμα, old verb, to lie before, as in Hebrews 12:1.
As an example (δειγμα). Predicate nominative of δειγμα, old word (from δεικνυμ to show), here only in N.T., sample, specimen. 2 Peter 2:6 has υποδειγμα (pattern).
Suffering (υπεχουσα). Present active participle of υπεχω, old compound, to hold under, often with δικην (right, justice, sentence 2 Thessalonians 1:9) to suffer sentence (punishment), here only in N.T.
Of eternal fire (πυρος αιωνιου). Like δεσμοις αιδιοις in verse Jude 1:7. Cf. the hell of fire (Matthew 5:22) and also Matthew 25:46. Jude has no mention of Lot."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/rwp/jude-1.html
It is clear that the fire in genesis was all consuming wiping out life. The fire in Matt 25:46 is ongoing fire that does not go out.
Genesis 19:23-25
King James Version
23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Luke 17:28-30
King James Version
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Lamsa Bible
Even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbouring cities which in like manner gave themselves over to fornication, and followed after other carnal lusts, are condemned to judgment and placed under everlasting fire;
Haweis New Testament
As Sodom and Gomorrha and the surrounding cities, in like manner with them abandoned to whoredom, and going after other flesh, are set forth an example, suffering the judicial punishment of eternal fire.
Weymouth New Testament
So also Sodom and Gomorrah--and the neighboring towns in the same manner--having been guilty of gross fornication and having gone astray in pursuit of unnatural vice, are now before us as a specimen of the fire of the Ages in the punishment which they are undergoing.
Worsley New Testament
as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them, in like manner with them committing lewdness, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of perpetual fire.
Young's Literal Translation
as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.
"
Are set forth (προκειντα). Present middle indicative of προκειμα, old verb, to lie before, as in Hebrews 12:1 (NAS)
1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
Click link to access powerful study resources in a new window.
Powered by StudyTagger™ from StudyLight.org
" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">Hebrews 12:1.
As an example (δειγμα). Predicate nominative of δειγμα, old word (from δεικνυμ to show), here only in N.T., sample, specimen. 2 Peter 2:6 (NAS)
6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;
Click link to access powerful study resources in a new window.
Powered by StudyTagger™ from StudyLight.org
" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">2 Peter 2:6 has υποδειγμα (pattern).
Suffering (υπεχουσα). Present active participle of υπεχω, old compound, to hold under, often with δικην (right, justice, sentence 2 Thessalonians 1:9 (NAS)
9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Click link to access powerful study resources in a new window.
Powered by StudyTagger™ from StudyLight.org
" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">2 Thessalonians 1:9) to suffer sentence (punishment), here only in N.T.
Of eternal fire (πυρος αιωνιου). Like δεσμοις αιδιοις in verse Jude 1:7 (NAS)
Are set forth (προκειντα). Present middle indicative of προκειμα, old verb, to lie before, as in Hebrews 12:1.
As an example (δειγμα). Predicate nominative of δειγμα, old word (from δεικνυμ to show), here only in N.T., sample, specimen. 2 Peter 2:6 has υποδειγμα (pattern).
Suffering (υπεχουσα). Present active participle of υπεχω, old compound, to hold under, often with δικην (right, justice, sentence 2 Thessalonians 1:9) to suffer sentence (punishment), here only in N.T.
Of eternal fire (πυρος αιωνιου). Like δεσμοις αιδιοις in verse Jude 1:7. Cf. the hell of fire (Matthew 5:22) and also Matthew 25:46. Jude has no mention of Lot."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/rwp/jude-1.html
It is clear that the fire in genesis was all consuming wiping out life. The fire in Matt 25:46 is ongoing fire that does not go out.
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"Since then, their names are synonymous with impenitent sin, and their fall with a proverbial manifestation of God's just wrath (Deuteronomy 29:23; 32:32; Isaiah 1:10 sqq.; Ezekiel 16:49; Matthew 11:23 sq.; 2 Peter 2:6; Jude 7). The Septuagint rendering katestrephe (Genesis 19:25) probably led to the erroneous opinion that the destruction of Sodom was accompanied by great upheavals of the earth, and even to the formation of the Dead Sea. "
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14130a.htm
Google jude 1:7 newadvent.org it is time to be kicked off by my boss, wife. good night all
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14130a.htm
Google jude 1:7 newadvent.org it is time to be kicked off by my boss, wife. good night all
Try scripture instead:
https://ia601409.us.archive.org/19/...pshot-image/Sincerely Dead Snapshot Image.png
https://ia601409.us.archive.org/19/...pshot-image/Sincerely Dead Snapshot Image.png
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'Taint no such thing as "the Septuagint".
What you are actually referring to is Origen's Hexapla (Catholic 'made up' documents).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C1mi_RcSLQ8
The so called Septuagint (LXX) doesn't actually exist. It's actually Sinaiticus (& Vaticanus) from Origen's Hexapla and was never 300 BC, but rather hundreds AD passing itself off based on a discredited myth (Letter of Aristeas).
The so called "Septuagint", really being "septuaginta (plural, with differing translations)" of Origen's Hexapla, Theodotion (6th column), Aquila of Sinope, & Symmachus and really from the sources Vaticanus and Sinaiticus (both of which are not anywhere near 4th C.).
The Septuagint [LXX] as we presently know it, appears first in the writings of Origen [Hexapla] at near the end of the 2nd century AD, and the mention by the so-called "Letter of Aristeas", based on an unfounded and mostly discredited "legend", is seriously problematic.
"... Most of these fables focus on an infamous “book” 14 called the “Letter of Aristeas” 15 (hereafter called the Letter) and the alleged claims of the Letter’s documentation by authors who wrote before the first coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the first few centuries following His first sojourn on earth. 16 The only extant Letter is dated from the eleventh century. In addition, there is no pre-Christian Greek translation of the He-brew Old Testament text, which the Letter alleges, that has been found, in-cluding the texts among the Dead Sea Scrolls. ..." - http://www.theoldpathspublications.com/Downloads/Free/The Septuagint ebook.pdf
"... the story of Aristeas appears comparatively rational. Yet it has long been recognized that much of it is unhistorical, in particular the professed date and nationality of the writer. Its claims to authenticity were demolished by Dr. Hody two centuries ago (De bibliorum textibus originalibus, Oxon., 1705) ..." - The Septuagint, by H. St. J. Thackeray
De bibliorum textibus originalibus - Humfredi Hodii linguae graecae professoris regii et Archidiaconi Oxon. De bibliorum textibus originalibus, versionibus graecis, & latina vulgata libri 4.. : Humphrey Hody : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Other sources, identifying the same - The Septuagint
Was the Septuagint the Bible of Christ and the Apostles?
"... Roman Catholics use the idea that Christ quoted the Septuagint to justly include the Apocrypha in their Bibles. ... Since no Hebrew Old Testament ever included the books of the Apocrypha, the Septuagint is the only source the Catholics have for justifying their canon. Many Reformers and Lutherans wrote at great length refuting the validity of the Septuagint. ..." - http://www.wcbible.org/documents/septuagint.pdf
"... [Page 46] Proponents of the invisible LXX will try to claim that Origen didn't translate the Hebrew into Greek, but only copied the LXX into the second column of his Hexapla. Can this argument be correct? No. If it were, then that would mean that those astute 72 Jewish scholars added the Apocryphal books to their work before they were ever written. (!) Or else, Origen took the liberty to add these spurious writings to God's Holy Word (Rev. 22:18). ...
... Is there ANY Greek manuscript of the Old Testament written BEFORE the time of Christ? Yes. There is one minute scrap dated at 150 BC, the Ryland's Papyrus, #458. It contains Deuteronomy chapters 23-28. No more. No less. If fact, it may be the existence of this fragment that led Eucebius and Philo to assume that the entire Pentatuech had been translated by some scribe in an effort to interest Gentiles in the history of the Jews. ... [page 46]
... [Page 47] If there was an Aristeas, he was faced with two insurmountable problems.
First, how did he ever locate the twelve tribes in order to pick his six representative scholars from each. Having been thoroughly scattered by their many defeats and captivities, the tribal lines of the 12 tribes had long since dissolved into virtual non-existence. It was impossible for anyone to distinctly identify the 12 individual tribes.
Secondly, if the 12 tribes had been identified, they would not have undertaken such a translation for two compelling reasons.
(1) Every Jew knew that the official caretaker of Scripture was the tribe of Levi as evidenced in Deuteronomy 17:18, 31:25,26 and Malachi 2:7. Thus, NO Jew of any of the eleven other tribes would dare to join such a forbidden enterprise. ..." - The Answer Book, By Sam Gipp, Page 46-47, selected portions, emphasis [bold] in original.
See also The Mythological Septuagint - https://ia801900.us.archive.org/13/items/peter-s-ruckman-the-mythological-septuagint/Peter S Ruckman - The Mythological Septuagint.pdf
See also Handbook of Manuscript Evidence, "Chapter 4, the Mythological LXX" - https://ia801508.us.archive.org/8/i...istians-handbook-of-manuscript-evidence/Peter S Ruckman - The Christian's Handbook of Manuscript Evidence.pdf
1 Jones, The Septuagint: A Critical Analysis, op. cit., pp. 10–54. The reader should, in all fairness, be apprised of the fact that very nearly all references in the literature which allude to the Septuagint in fact pertain to Origen's 5th column. That is, the real LXX from all citation evidence as to N.T. references – indeed, for all practical purposes – the Septuagint that we actually "see" and "use" is found to actually be only two manuscripts, Vaticanus B and Sinaiticus a. This is especially true of Vaticanus. Although this fact is difficult to ferret out from among the vast amount of literature on the subject, it may be verified by numerous sources. Among them, the reader is directed to page 1259 in The New Bible Dictionary op. cit., (Texts-Versions) where D.W. Gooding admits this when he relates that the LXX of Jer.38:40 (Jer.31:40 in the MT) as shown in figure 214 has been taken from the Codex Sinaiticus. Thomas Hartwell Horne is even more direct in An Introduction to the Critical Study and Knowledge of the Holy Scriptures, 9th ed., Vol. II, (London, Eng.: Spottiswoode and Shaw, 1846), fn. 1. p. 282 and fn. 3 p. 288. It has been established that both were produced from Origen's 5th column. Thus, the Septuagint which we actually utilize in practical outworking, the LXX which is cited almost ninety percent of the time, is actually the LXX that was written more than 250 years after the completion of the New Testament canon – and by a "Catholicized Jehovah's Witness" at that! Moreover, it must be seen that the testimony of these two corrupted manuscripts is almost solely responsible for the errors being foisted upon the Holy Scriptures in both Testaments by modern critics! - Footnote 1, Which Version?, by Floyd Nolen Jones, 20th edition page 129 [PDF] - https://ia601901.us.archive.org/9/items/floyd-nolen-jones-which-version-is-the-bible/Floyd Nolen Jones - Which Version Is The Bible.pdf
What you are actually referring to is Origen's Hexapla (Catholic 'made up' documents).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C1mi_RcSLQ8
The so called Septuagint (LXX) doesn't actually exist. It's actually Sinaiticus (& Vaticanus) from Origen's Hexapla and was never 300 BC, but rather hundreds AD passing itself off based on a discredited myth (Letter of Aristeas).
The so called "Septuagint", really being "septuaginta (plural, with differing translations)" of Origen's Hexapla, Theodotion (6th column), Aquila of Sinope, & Symmachus and really from the sources Vaticanus and Sinaiticus (both of which are not anywhere near 4th C.).
The Septuagint [LXX] as we presently know it, appears first in the writings of Origen [Hexapla] at near the end of the 2nd century AD, and the mention by the so-called "Letter of Aristeas", based on an unfounded and mostly discredited "legend", is seriously problematic.
"... Most of these fables focus on an infamous “book” 14 called the “Letter of Aristeas” 15 (hereafter called the Letter) and the alleged claims of the Letter’s documentation by authors who wrote before the first coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the first few centuries following His first sojourn on earth. 16 The only extant Letter is dated from the eleventh century. In addition, there is no pre-Christian Greek translation of the He-brew Old Testament text, which the Letter alleges, that has been found, in-cluding the texts among the Dead Sea Scrolls. ..." - http://www.theoldpathspublications.com/Downloads/Free/The Septuagint ebook.pdf
"... the story of Aristeas appears comparatively rational. Yet it has long been recognized that much of it is unhistorical, in particular the professed date and nationality of the writer. Its claims to authenticity were demolished by Dr. Hody two centuries ago (De bibliorum textibus originalibus, Oxon., 1705) ..." - The Septuagint, by H. St. J. Thackeray
De bibliorum textibus originalibus - Humfredi Hodii linguae graecae professoris regii et Archidiaconi Oxon. De bibliorum textibus originalibus, versionibus graecis, & latina vulgata libri 4.. : Humphrey Hody : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Other sources, identifying the same - The Septuagint
Was the Septuagint the Bible of Christ and the Apostles?
"... Roman Catholics use the idea that Christ quoted the Septuagint to justly include the Apocrypha in their Bibles. ... Since no Hebrew Old Testament ever included the books of the Apocrypha, the Septuagint is the only source the Catholics have for justifying their canon. Many Reformers and Lutherans wrote at great length refuting the validity of the Septuagint. ..." - http://www.wcbible.org/documents/septuagint.pdf
"... [Page 46] Proponents of the invisible LXX will try to claim that Origen didn't translate the Hebrew into Greek, but only copied the LXX into the second column of his Hexapla. Can this argument be correct? No. If it were, then that would mean that those astute 72 Jewish scholars added the Apocryphal books to their work before they were ever written. (!) Or else, Origen took the liberty to add these spurious writings to God's Holy Word (Rev. 22:18). ...
... Is there ANY Greek manuscript of the Old Testament written BEFORE the time of Christ? Yes. There is one minute scrap dated at 150 BC, the Ryland's Papyrus, #458. It contains Deuteronomy chapters 23-28. No more. No less. If fact, it may be the existence of this fragment that led Eucebius and Philo to assume that the entire Pentatuech had been translated by some scribe in an effort to interest Gentiles in the history of the Jews. ... [page 46]
... [Page 47] If there was an Aristeas, he was faced with two insurmountable problems.
First, how did he ever locate the twelve tribes in order to pick his six representative scholars from each. Having been thoroughly scattered by their many defeats and captivities, the tribal lines of the 12 tribes had long since dissolved into virtual non-existence. It was impossible for anyone to distinctly identify the 12 individual tribes.
Secondly, if the 12 tribes had been identified, they would not have undertaken such a translation for two compelling reasons.
(1) Every Jew knew that the official caretaker of Scripture was the tribe of Levi as evidenced in Deuteronomy 17:18, 31:25,26 and Malachi 2:7. Thus, NO Jew of any of the eleven other tribes would dare to join such a forbidden enterprise. ..." - The Answer Book, By Sam Gipp, Page 46-47, selected portions, emphasis [bold] in original.
See also The Mythological Septuagint - https://ia801900.us.archive.org/13/items/peter-s-ruckman-the-mythological-septuagint/Peter S Ruckman - The Mythological Septuagint.pdf
See also Handbook of Manuscript Evidence, "Chapter 4, the Mythological LXX" - https://ia801508.us.archive.org/8/i...istians-handbook-of-manuscript-evidence/Peter S Ruckman - The Christian's Handbook of Manuscript Evidence.pdf
1 Jones, The Septuagint: A Critical Analysis, op. cit., pp. 10–54. The reader should, in all fairness, be apprised of the fact that very nearly all references in the literature which allude to the Septuagint in fact pertain to Origen's 5th column. That is, the real LXX from all citation evidence as to N.T. references – indeed, for all practical purposes – the Septuagint that we actually "see" and "use" is found to actually be only two manuscripts, Vaticanus B and Sinaiticus a. This is especially true of Vaticanus. Although this fact is difficult to ferret out from among the vast amount of literature on the subject, it may be verified by numerous sources. Among them, the reader is directed to page 1259 in The New Bible Dictionary op. cit., (Texts-Versions) where D.W. Gooding admits this when he relates that the LXX of Jer.38:40 (Jer.31:40 in the MT) as shown in figure 214 has been taken from the Codex Sinaiticus. Thomas Hartwell Horne is even more direct in An Introduction to the Critical Study and Knowledge of the Holy Scriptures, 9th ed., Vol. II, (London, Eng.: Spottiswoode and Shaw, 1846), fn. 1. p. 282 and fn. 3 p. 288. It has been established that both were produced from Origen's 5th column. Thus, the Septuagint which we actually utilize in practical outworking, the LXX which is cited almost ninety percent of the time, is actually the LXX that was written more than 250 years after the completion of the New Testament canon – and by a "Catholicized Jehovah's Witness" at that! Moreover, it must be seen that the testimony of these two corrupted manuscripts is almost solely responsible for the errors being foisted upon the Holy Scriptures in both Testaments by modern critics! - Footnote 1, Which Version?, by Floyd Nolen Jones, 20th edition page 129 [PDF] - https://ia601901.us.archive.org/9/items/floyd-nolen-jones-which-version-is-the-bible/Floyd Nolen Jones - Which Version Is The Bible.pdf
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Brother, you fight against o.s.a.s ...can i annoy you to the max and ask you to check this thread out? https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...her-look-at-the-garden-of-eden.204589/page-11
I am logging off in 10 mintues this from UofM proves you are posting nonsense, friend. https://quod.lib.umich.edu/d/did/did2222.0000.631/--septuagint?rgn=main;view=fulltext
It is too long to post.
It is too long to post.
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HELL IS A PLACE OF FIRE
The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME."
In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."
Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE."
https://www2.gvsu.edu/pontiusd/hell.html
KJV Dictionary Definition: everlasting
everlasting
EVERL`ASTING, a. ever and lasting. Lasting or enduring for ever; eternal; existing or continuing without end; immortal.
The everlasting God, or Jehovah. Gen.21.
Everlasting fire; everlasting punishment. Matt.18.25.
1. Perpetual; continuing indefinitely, or during the present state of things.
I will give thee, and thy seed after thee, the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession. Gen.17.
The everlasting hills or mountains. Genesis. Habakkuk.
2. In popular usage, endless; continual; unintermitted; as, the family is disturbed with everlasting disputes.
EVERL`ASTING, n. Eternity; eternal duration, past and future.
From everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. Ps.90.
1. A plant, the Gnaphalium; also, the Xeranthenum.
everlastingly
EVERL`ASTINGLY, adv. Eternally; perpetually; continually.
Definitions from Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language, 1828.
The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME."
In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."
Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE."
https://www2.gvsu.edu/pontiusd/hell.html
KJV Dictionary Definition: everlasting
everlasting
EVERL`ASTING, a. ever and lasting. Lasting or enduring for ever; eternal; existing or continuing without end; immortal.
The everlasting God, or Jehovah. Gen.21.
Everlasting fire; everlasting punishment. Matt.18.25.
1. Perpetual; continuing indefinitely, or during the present state of things.
I will give thee, and thy seed after thee, the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession. Gen.17.
The everlasting hills or mountains. Genesis. Habakkuk.
2. In popular usage, endless; continual; unintermitted; as, the family is disturbed with everlasting disputes.
EVERL`ASTING, n. Eternity; eternal duration, past and future.
From everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. Ps.90.
1. A plant, the Gnaphalium; also, the Xeranthenum.
everlastingly
EVERL`ASTINGLY, adv. Eternally; perpetually; continually.
Definitions from Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language, 1828.
No, you said that I said "believing Jesus is "hellmongering". I said that disobeying any single verse that is written in the Scriptures is not quoting Jesus properly.
Matthew 25:31-46 is talking about the authority of Jesus and how He will wipe every tear from the face of the faithful. How mercy is so truly important. He will separate, the obedient from the disobedient. So what do you interpret from this passage?
It's hell folks! Burn baby burn. Helter Skelter!
Rev 20:7-15 Speaks of the final judgement. Those who lived in the name of Jesus but died not in his name, are finally resurrected. They are once again tested by released satan. Vessels of bad ideas are finally destroyed, satan, the beast and the false prophet and every follower thereof. Stark warning to those who seek immortality haphazardly. So what do you find important from this passage?
It's the highway to hell folks. Goin' down, party time.
No, I ain't hearing the Word from you, just some bad lyrics to catchy tunes.
Matthew 25:31-46 is talking about the authority of Jesus and how He will wipe every tear from the face of the faithful. How mercy is so truly important. He will separate, the obedient from the disobedient. So what do you interpret from this passage?
It's hell folks! Burn baby burn. Helter Skelter!
Rev 20:7-15 Speaks of the final judgement. Those who lived in the name of Jesus but died not in his name, are finally resurrected. They are once again tested by released satan. Vessels of bad ideas are finally destroyed, satan, the beast and the false prophet and every follower thereof. Stark warning to those who seek immortality haphazardly. So what do you find important from this passage?
It's the highway to hell folks. Goin' down, party time.
No, I ain't hearing the Word from you, just some bad lyrics to catchy tunes.
This is an area of understanding and meaning that Ive spent a good deal of time searching for understanding. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is difficult yet at odds with Jesus use of language and allegory elsewhere. I approached this topic desiring that the bible would take me where it would and landed firmly on destruction and perishing and second death all aligning with their plain meaning and not allegory. Eternal punishment is understandable as death forever for all eternity (meaning not grammatically inconsistent), and the death sentence is the harshest punishment on earth, but remember on earth it cuts off remaining years of this life, for the lost it cuts off the possibility of eternal life of profound happiness ie it’s a far worse punishment when you think what is taken away. This explains the weeping and gnashing of teeth on realizing what has been forfeited through not believing in Jesus-this is how it read to me. Therefore the process of facing God and this truth and from the place of being cast into outer darkness to destruction to the lake of fire is an awful and terrible thing but I can accept that, terrible as it is. Why would God resurrect the lost dead so they can suffer for all eternity and not simply leave them in Sheol? What purpose can this serve? If we face Gods judgements then this is just and right, but what would a just punishment look like? Death forever, forfeiting heaven is more than enough for me. It is clearly wrong to desire punishments on those who have wronged us so check your own heart, that is more important than anything, more important than whether you or I have got the theology correct about hell. Love your enemies. Revelation describes eternal suffering for the devil and his angels, mankind is left off that list, that makes sense if fallen humans are no longer immortal- they enter the flames and perish because they are mortal due to the fall and this is clear from the OT. Immortality of the dead has its roots in Greek thinking not Judaic. Hence the flame that burns eternally and reminds us of their reproach keeps burning because it contains immortal beings other than human, read all references in Revelation to be sure, that’s where the end of all things is described.
I never really accepted the idea of eternal suffering, but no one talked about it in the last 30 years or so, so at least Christian’s are talking about it a lot more now and that’s good. it wasn’t safe to express doubt about it, but I asked God to show me the truth and I stayed open to either possibility. I have peace now about this and I wish that for all in the body of Christ whatever your interpretation is of eternity for your friends and family is as they pass over.
Please read widely on this from all sides before fixing on a viewpoint. There is so much key theology to work through and consider, it’s been an amazing and enriching journey to go on and I love God more than ever and want to share that love with the lost more than ever before, hallelujah!
I never really accepted the idea of eternal suffering, but no one talked about it in the last 30 years or so, so at least Christian’s are talking about it a lot more now and that’s good. it wasn’t safe to express doubt about it, but I asked God to show me the truth and I stayed open to either possibility. I have peace now about this and I wish that for all in the body of Christ whatever your interpretation is of eternity for your friends and family is as they pass over.
Please read widely on this from all sides before fixing on a viewpoint. There is so much key theology to work through and consider, it’s been an amazing and enriching journey to go on and I love God more than ever and want to share that love with the lost more than ever before, hallelujah!
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