Could you provide the entire verse and location? It's difficult to respond to statements without specific verses to see.
Thanks.
One taken,one left. The rapture.
- Thread starter Absolutely
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Thanks.
I don't know what you are talking about? Where did I even suggest that God could "leave His elect behind"?
These questions are in agreement with you = not against you.
So we, sometimes, ask questions that the Reader knows the answer to so as to affirm the Reader's own thoughts on the subject.
I realized your agreement when I read your response to Abs.
Following the order of the wheat and tares, and assuming the order of mention for the fate of goats and sheep is chronological, the wicked are taken first.
What leads you to interpret that the righteous are dealt with first? If the parable of the wheat and tares does not indicate that the wicked are gathered first, what does the gathering and burning of the tares mean in your interpretation?
FROM NOW ON, EVERY TIME YOU MAKE A FALSE STATEMENT ABOUT ME LIKE IT IS TRUTH I AM GOING TO REPORT YOU BECAUSE ALL THE 'MISTAKE' CHANCES HAVE BEEN USED UP.
YOU STARTED OUT WITH THIS OUTRIGHT LIE
"if the "one taken" , in your ( and all the other pretribbers here) belief,"
YOU KNOW I AM NOT OF THE PRE TRIBULATION DOCTRINE, LIKE YOU ARE.
I KNOW FOR SURE, YOU KNOW THAT FOR SURE.
ENOUGH WITH THE CONVENIENT 'ACCIDENTS' THAT ALWAYS WORK TO YOUR BENEFIT.
It is THE PRE TRIBS that say 'the church' (1/2 THE POPULATION) is 'raptured away before the tribulation.
SO YOU NEED TO ANSWER YOUR OWN QUESTION.
Now to 'address' this.
Christ came and before He left told us 'many will come in my name and tell you I am will be here or there don't believe them'. Also told us don't be deceived by any man.
WITH our minds having 'released' a pretrib rapture and JUST ASSUMING IT DOESN'T EXIST....LET'S SPECULATE how it would go.
Out of the worlds population come all the wicked, greedy peoples, rising up in power and control with the 'businesses that basically 'run' the world (up out of the sea rose a beast)
There are going to be 10 businesses that basically do this and they will get to the point (speeding towards it right now) where they come together as a 'collective' and will ALMOST achieve their goal OF A ONE WORLD ORDER (10 headed beast)
Then something BAD will happen to ONE OF THEM that will EFFECT the others so much the whole thing EARTH could come crashing down (deadly wound)
About this time the war ends in heaven and Satan is kicked out and LO AND BEHOLD HE FIXES THE ISSUE AND HE AND HIS ANGELS TAKE OVER THE BUSINESSES/KINGDOMS. HE NOW SETS THE 'IMAGE' to be worshipped. IS THE IMAGE A 'COMPUTER' ONE HAS TO 'LOG ONTO TO ACCESS THEIR MONEY'? IS IT A CARD OF SOME SORT THAT IS REQUIRED FOR ALL MONEY TRANSACTIONS? WHATEVER it is, THE WHOLE WORLD 'JUMPS ON BOARD' with it because it is FAST, convenient, and on top of that PROFITABLE to do so and everyone just saw what could happen without it. (Not to mention he does as no one before him and shares the spoils)
There will be trouble spots yet he will win them over with flatteries and since he has control of all the gold it won't be hard. SOON the whole world will have jumped into bed with him (TAKEN BY DECEPTION/the deceiver = So they are still here on the planet, not TAKEN ANYWHERE, with the real problem being they have no idea what GODS TRUTH IS). Remember he is PERFORMING lying signs and wonders and he is soooooo gooood that even GODS ELECT would be deceived if he was allowed to carry on long enough, he is that good.
AS FOR THE CHURCHES or better yet the CHRISTIANS of the world, when they see him performing MIRACLES and saying things that SOUND 'OH SO HOLY AND TRUE' (and since they never really bothered to READ the words of God themselves) have no idea they are being fed nothing but LIES and deceptions meant to STEAL their VIRGINITY by worshipping another
NOT TO MENTION
THEY ARE POSITIVE THEY WILL BE RAPTURED AWAY BEFORE SATAN COMES,
SO THEY DON'T EVEN WORRY ABOUT WHETHER THEY ARE BEING DECEIVED OR NOT,
DO THEY?
NO, BECAUSE BEFORE SATAN EVER EVEN ARRIVED
THEY ALREADY BELIEVED THE LIE THAT BLINDED THEM TO THE DECEPTION COMING, ************************THE ONE THEY ARE NOW LIVING**************************************.
THANK ALL THE TEACHERS OF PRE TRIB RAPTURE DOCTRINE SO VERY MUCH FOR NOT CALLING OUT THE WARNING BUT instead promoting the perfect PRE TRIB LIE necessary for the 'FALLING AWAY to take place.
Any problems he has, he wins over with flatteries and soon enough brings about world 'peace and safety' (ANOTHER BIG TIME LIE).
OF course, those 'CHRISTIANS' who have jumped into bed with the imposter don't know it and so BELIEVING THE LIES TO BE TRUTH, start to turn over their LOVED ONES (THINKING THEY ARE 'SAVING THEM'). The world 'seeing' Satan as the savior think those who OPPOSE HIM ARE DEVIL WORSHIPPERS and have no problem with whatever happens to them.
THIS IS WHAT will BEFALL THE TWO WITNESSES AT THE VERY END. THEY HAVE CAUSED Satan problems and so he finally kills them. THE WORLD is so happy the 'rotten fruit' taken care of and they are so sure that HEAVEN HAS COME TO EARTH that EVERYONE WILL BE LIVING HAPPILY EVER AFTER.
now is the time to
LOOK UP, BECAUSE WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT IT BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE YOU ARE ALREADY LIVING THE DREAM, HERE HE COMES. LIKE LIGHTENING BRIGHT AND FAST, SUDDEN DESTRUCTION. IF YOU 'USED TO CALL YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN, RUN AND HIDE BECAUSE YOU ARE MORE THAN ASHAMED NOW, AREN'T YOU? (see if you have time to jump from one bed to the other - NEVER MIND don't bother, you are no longer a virgin, you have been UNFAITHFUL to GOD, you are WITH another gods child already, aren't you? pray for those mountains to fall on you and start praying, come judgment day, you will be able to watch all those who didn't WARN YOU but instead made you think you could hide behind that wall of safety (daubed with untempered morter) by flying away to save your life through 'some hidden doctrine' go into the lake of fire.
NO ONE TAKEN AWAY ANYWHERE. Everyone still here. The only TAKEN are taken in deception.
Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Didn't you say you knew all about the POST TRIB beliefs? I believe you may need to go over that again. POST TRIBS DON'T BELIEVE THAT ANYONE IS TAKEN ANYWHERE.
EVERYONE stays and everyone goes through whatever times are set before them, and at the end Jesus returns.
I could not find anywhere in your post where you addressed Jesus words that at his coming one would be taken, one left behind.
Uh no, you do not know what you are talking about. Postribbers place the "one taken/left" at the second coming on white horses. They contend the one taken is the wicked people of this earth.
The scripture in the op (the thread you are in and yet want to divert from) is the following
Mat 24
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
So EVERBODY WITH A BRAIN AGREES THERE IS ONE TAKEN AT JESUS COMING.
I find it incredible that you would not see that.
The ACTUAL DEBATE is who are those taken,and which coming.
For the sake of "playing out the postrib model" I am test fitting "wicked taken" at the arrival of the white horses second coming.
...and what a incredible fail that notion is.
Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
450. anistémi ►
Strong's Concordance
anistémi: to raise up, to rise
Original Word: ἀνίστημι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: anistémi
Phonetic Spelling: (an-is'-tay-mee)
Definition: to raise up, to rise
Usage: I raise up, set up; I rise from among (the) dead; I arise, appear.
Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
1453. egeiró ►
Strong's Concordance
egeiró: to waken, to raise up
Original Word: ἐγείρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: egeiró
Phonetic Spelling: (eg-i'-ro)
Definition: to waken, to raise up
Usage: (a) I wake, arouse, (b) I raise up.
Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
Not sure but I think it was said that this was not a 'resurrection' for some reason. I don't see how it wouldn't be.
Prophecy
ISAIAH 26:19 Shall live Your dead [together with] my dead body they shall arise. Awake and sing you who dwell in dust for the dew of herbs your dew [is like] and the earth the dead shall cast out
Prophecy fulfilled
Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
CAN ANYONE SEE A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THESE TWO VERSES?
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
6965. qum ►
Strong's Concordance
qum: to arise, stand up, stand
Original Word: קוּם
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: qum
Phonetic Spelling: (koom)
Definition: to arise, stand up, stand
abide, make surely, be uphold,
A primitive root; to rise (in various applications, literal, figurative, intensive and causative) -- abide, accomplish, X be clearer, confirm, continue, decree, X be dim, endure, X enemy, enjoin, get up, make good, help, hold, (help to) lift up (again), make, X but newly, ordain, perform, pitch, raise (up), rear (up), remain, (a-)rise (up) (again, against), rouse up, set (up), (e-)stablish, (make to) stand (up), stir up, strengthen, succeed, (as-, make) sure(-ly), (be) up(-hold, - rising).
Colossians 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; THAT IN ALL THINGS HE MIGHT HAVE THE PREEMINENCE
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Philippians 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
I know the doctrine and what is generally believed, not your added and enriched version.
Just sharing the Truth that BEFORE we arrive at His Second Coming and the Resurrection into Glorified Bodies, we are First resurrected from the Death of Sin unto Eternal LIFE in the SON.
Which is the Beginning Required Will of God of the First Resurrection = Born-Again by the Spirit of the Living God.
If there is no resurrection from the death of sin means, then there is no Resurrection for those who have refused the love of the Truth at His Coming.
Only thing left for them is GWTJ.
TO MAKE SURE I DON'T 'OMIT' I TRIED TO GO ABOVE AND BEYOND...
Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
As watchmen, we look around and seeing the world and what is going on WE KNOW the season and we know it is coming to an end. We know that Noah and his family was saved by the waters, and the evil ones died by the waters.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
From Genesis we know the world had become so evil God was going to destroy the whole thing so there was nothing normal about the times. There were fallen angels and giants even.
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
They had no clue judgement was just on the horizon. The whole world being deceived don't have a clue sudden destruction is coming upon them either
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
HERE IS MY ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION
Matthew 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest:
and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers,
Gather ye together first the tares,
AKA TAKEN IN BY DECEPTION, TAKEN TO BURN, TAKEN BY THE SICKLE AND THROWN IN THE WINE PRESS
and bind them in bundles to burn them:
but gather the wheat into my barn. AND THE OTHER LEFT
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
BETTER KEEP A WATCH BECAUSE SATAN IS COMING TO DECEIVE AND THE WHEAT AND THE TARES ARE BOTH HERE UNTIL THE RETURN OF CHRIST AND THEN IT IS HARVEST TIME. IF YOU AREN'T WATCHING THEN YOU WILL BE TAKEN AND BURNT. JUST LIKE THE FLOOD OF NOAHS TIME. THEY WERENT WATCHING EITHER BECAUSE IF THE WERE THEY WOULD HAVE TAKEN NOTE OF ENOCH'S PROPHECY AND STAYED AWAY FROM THE FALLEN ANGELS.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
IF THIS GOOD MAN WOULD HAVE PUT ON THE GOSPEL ARMOR HE WOULDN'T HAVE ALLOWED SATAN TO DECEIVE HIM (HAD HIS HOUSE BROKEN INTO) AND SO HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN HARVESTED WITH THE TARES.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
IF YOU DIDN'T READ THE BOOK THEN SATAN STANDING WHERE HE OUGHT NOT MIGHT JUST LOOK LIKE CHRIST RETURNED.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
WHO IS BOTH FAITHFUL AND WISE? ONE WHO HEEDS THE WARNING DO NO BE DECEIVED BY ANY MAN. SATAN IS COMING FIRST. KEEP WATCH. KEEP WORKING IN THE FIELD. DON'T BE TAKEN
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
AND THEY SHALL RULE AND REIGN WITH HIM FOR 1000 YEARS.
Don't you realize you are the one adding to it? I am trying to keep you from ADDING anything to the words of God. If anything you should be accusing me of 'subtracting' as I keep telling you NO, THAT ISN'T WRITTEN. No one teaches that in the words of God
I am starting to think the problem is one more of semantics than anything else. What you and I CALL a RAISING UP and/or resurrection being of both body and spirit, (ABSOLUTELY SPIRIT FIRST) FG sees resurrection as being strictly a BODY EVENT and regeneration as what you and I would term spirit raising from death to life. SO I think on that front we are all saying the same thing in different ways
I think you and FG agree on the last day and FIRST resurrection being about time and place where as I believe it is about rank. You think?
AGREE, and never let semantics get in the way of the working of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
Your " answer" is a parable?
The "one taken" is tares at the gwtj?
Jesus tells tares to watch and be ready?
Here it is, once again;
Try to stay on track here.;
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
*Noah in preflood/ pretrib setting
*Normal life and festivities.
*Some group preflood/pretrib that half of them taken, half remain.
*WATCH AND BE READY, FOR THE COMING OF JESUS.
you= "LET'S forget and omit all context, and let us, one dimensionally, see one segment of a sentence; "took them ALL away," see that? The entire earths population DESTROYED. "
So you are CHANGING " HALF " to "ALL" Then defending it as a fact.
Re read it with all components.
Unless you also are erroneously promoting the second coming as being after the millennium.
Pssst....the tares are burned. That is the lof after the mil.
The ones taken are AT The COMING OF JESUS ( According to postrib doctrine)
Ahem.....not post mil.
SHM.
Now keep in mind i am playing out a postribber position
Not the obvious pretrib rapture that the bible is projecting of the ones taken are the bride at the pretrib rapture with the carnal "church pew sitters" left behind.
( which fits perfectly)