How Much of an Ethnicity Does One Have to Be In Order to Be Able to Claim It?

[Lanolin]

Ultimately, I think that it is a sad commentary on certain individuals who feel the need to "latch on to" a culture when they find out that they have a minuscule percentage of that ethnicity in their background.

I remember a girl that I knew in my late 20's that somehow found out that she had a great, great grandmother that was 25% American Indian yet the rest of her was a blend of different European countries. She had such a lack of self identity that suddenly she was going to Indian pow-wows and immersing herself in American Indian culture (I can't remember what tribe) because it gave her a sense of belonging to something that she had never had.

Recently I was talking with an employee of mine who really is Native American (Navajo/Hopi) and he was joking about the number of people like her that show up at pow-wows trying sooooo hard to "look" Indian.

well if she really knew her great great grandmother then good for her but if she didnt its a bit sad. However that doesnt mean she should be ridiculed for wanting to find out or learn about another culture.

If I dress in a sari would someone come along and tell me I cant wear it cos I am not Indian?
What about white people who dress in cheongsam? It was the fashion!
Native americans wear truquoise beads..theyve become a fashion, as have Maori tattoos.

 

[Lanolin]

My cousins who are chinese/white, well one wears dreads lol. My hair doesnt do anything, it cant even curl so I just let it be.

I know some women straighten their hair, but others perm it. Its fashion.

 

[Lanolin]

Wasnt it Hudson Taylor who wanted to dress like the chinese did. And the other missionaries thought this was stupid.

 

[Pipp]

I dont think its wrong or stupid to want to know where your family came from. It's exciting to me.

 

[seoulsearch]

Do you know which theater it was?It will give you an idea geographically.
I know I was born in the hospital and was transferred when I had jaundice to a different one then was taken home.

No, I don't know which theater I was found in front of. My papers literally said, "Found in front of a theater," with no other information.

Theoretically I was found in Seoul, but they guessed that I was a few days old, so I could have been born elsewhere. I was born at a time and in a country where they didn't keep immaculate records, because back then there was little thought given to the idea that children might eventually actively seek out their histories. Intercountry adoption was still relatively new, and they were just doing the best they could as they went along. Most people thought it would never work, let alone that decades later, adoptees would seek out their biological families.

I was also born into a country that is so obsessed with preserving bloodlines that at times on and off throughout its history, adoption has actually been illegal. I was just blessed enough to exist during a period when it happened to be legal. Traditional Asians (at least where I am from) have a strong belief in "roots" and family history, and so no one wants to bring "bad" or "unknown" blood into their families. I know another Asian adoptee who was told by a "traditional" Asian that because he didn't know his history, he wasn't fully human and was incapable of "real" emotions -- like love.

Your original post listed 1 Timothy 4 which I first looked up; you now specifically list 1 Timothy 1:4.

Paul says, "As I urged you when I went into Macedonia -- remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith."

While I agree that this teaching is telling us not to put too much stock in someone's, I also don't think it forbids us to look into our own histories.

My parents weren't supposed to be able to have children, which is one reason why I was adopted, but God did give them a biological child. It was very hard for me growing up to always hear relatives talk about how much that sibling resembled so and so, or was built like Cousin X, etc., and always feel like such an outsider. I was very different from my family, not just in looks and race, but also hobbies, interests, and personality.

For a very long time in my life I was plagued by questions such as, "Is there ANYONE out there in the world that I resemble? Am I like anyone at all? Do I look like anyone? Do I get X, Y, or Z from another actual human being?" I longed to know that I had some kind of connection with SOMEONE like everyone else around me seemed to have.

Now I realize it's possible that even if I did meet my entire biological family, I might have a single thing in common with or resemble any of them. But back then, it seemed of utmost importance that I be able to connect with someone... But that is another tale for another time.

These days, I've learned to make my differences one of the hallmarks of who I am... For instance, my love of bringing up the topics that most of society seems to like to keep hidden away.

 

[Mem]

And some of the more visually stunning people out there come from unusual "racial" mixes.

I get the impression that God likes variety. Maybe that's just me.

Yes, God used a special blend to create me, with an extra dash of stunning.

 

[Lanolin]

interesting
I have a cousin-in law who was adopted

Have you ever been to visit Seoul? Or anywhere in Korea? Did you know many Koreans growing up?
Ive been to Japan but that was just a flying stopover.

Yea I think too much importance is placed on bloodlines and geneology, which are not important for a christian since we are all adopted by God and covered by Jesus blood.

I had a workmate who was adopted to England and he came back to nz to find his roots cos he was born here. His family also had a biological child after him, He did actually find his birth family (or mum) but when he saw how they lived and how hed been adopted he was glad that he had been adopted. Most parents dont really want to give up their children but sometimes they have to...it takes a lot to raise a child.

He died here though (was killed in a hit and run) Im sorry to say, that was how I found out about his life. So his English parents came over for the funeral. He was buried (or scattered) here.

I think where you get buried is quite important. I dont know really why but it just is. Its where you choose to be. Ruth told Naomi that her people would be her people and she would go with her and be live and die with them. She made a choice.

Of course she was hungry too but she didnt go back to Moab.

The other thing I thought about was Mother Teresa. She wore a sari even though she wasnt Indian. She identified with the poor in Calcutta. I dont think people lambasted her for doing that.
But if a white person wears cornrows, somehow its wrong? I just think they are trying out a new hairstyle. Just like white people want to get a sun tan, they're always complaining about being too pale. I dont think think theres anything wrong with that or they not really being who they are.

 

[JimJimmers]

Lanolin, I recall once seeing a big university protest about cultural appropriation, some white student had worn cornrows or dreadlocks or something. And one of the white protestors had a mohawk. I think the irony of culturally appropriating the hairstyle of a Native tribe was lost on them.

 

[JimJimmers]

My view... None of this should matter. This matters to people obsessed with race, such as the enlightened Wokists and other race-baiters trying to divide and conquer our culture through race.

I'm white, but a mixed white. I got white European, but also near-eastern and even some Asian DNA. I'm a Christian first, American second, and the rest is self-evident, regardless of how I might feel about it, and this is an almost non-existent third.

I think people will always be curious about their ancestors, and that is a good normal thing. Also it does matter a bit for certain medical reasons, I read an article about a young man trying to get a kidney transplant and the hospital wouldn't put him on the donor list because he had a small percentage of African blood in him.

 

[Lanolin]

Netflix doc Found is about 3 teenage girls all adopted from China to America, to different families, they find out they are cousins and then they go to China to see if they can find their birth parents.

Worth watching, but I do think that the 'mothers' at the orphanages are also the unsung hero(ines) .

Circumstances in China have been dire for female babies for a long time. Plus they had a one child policy.

Similar thing happened to Moses in the Bible, but there it was male babies.

 

[Lanolin]

I think people will always be curious about their ancestors, and that is a good normal thing. Also it does matter a bit for certain medical reasons, I read an article about a young man trying to get a kidney transplant and the hospital wouldn't put him on the donor list because he had a small percentage of African blood in him.

really..that might have been a bit of spin on that article.
Blood types are O A and AB theres no 'african blood' to phenotype. What they do scan for is if people have been vaccinated or not or exposed to HIV etc.

 

[Lanolin]

Lanolin, I recall once seeing a big university protest about cultural appropriation, some white student had worn cornrows or dreadlocks or something. And one of the white protestors had a mohawk. I think the irony of culturally appropriating the hairstyle of a Native tribe was lost on them.

weird I just think people need to get over this.
I remember some controversy over the book American Dirt because a white person wrote it aabout hispanics. What about Memoirs of a geisha. That wasnt even written by a geisha.

lol Of course people know that it wasnt real it was fiction. There is plenty of novels written by Latin americans and Japanese that have been translated. But they dont get the same reading audience or attention I guess.

Or how about How Green was my Valley. The author wasnt even Welsh. But doesnt mean he couldnt write about it. Just wouldnt be as authentic I suppose. Also english readers who cant read in Welsh obviously wouldnt have found out about it if a Welsh author isnt translated.

 

[Lanolin]

one irony I notice is often English people mispronounce Maori words. That sometimes deeply offends Maori, but also Maori people ALSO often dont speak English 'properly' and spreak it in a Maori way!

Even the English dont speak english 'correctly' all the time and have different accents etc. Plus Maori does have regional dialects as well, which can be different to each other. So in the end, people make a big deal over differences and everyone just offends everyone. Probably without even meaning to.

 

[JimJimmers]

really..that might have been a bit of spin on that article.
Blood types are O A and AB theres no 'african blood' to phenotype. What they do scan for is if people have been vaccinated or not or exposed to HIV etc.

Here is a link to the article. https://slate.com/technology/2021/06/kidney-transplant-dialysis-race-adjustment.html

I hope there is a bit of spin on it, I hope the article is wrong. But if the article is accurate I find it very unfair.

 

[Magenta]

Those DNA tests are about as accurate as a $2 watch.

Should Police Be Able To Use DNA Databases To Solve Crimes?

 

[Magenta]

I was fascinated by the story of Rachel Dolezal, the white woman who says she identifies as black, and even
took prominent positions within the black community before she was outed by her own white parents:

There is a similar story told documentary style on Netflix about a woman who falsely claimed she was a Jewish child adopted into a Catholic family after her parents were deported by the Nazis. She says she ran away to walk across the country through the woods as a seven y/o to find her parents, and was subsequently raised by wolves. Story here (<= link ).

Real Holocaust survivors revealed an audacious deception created to hide a darker truth.

One person describes the doc like this:

Misha and the Wolves tells the story of a young Jewish girl who was taken in by a Catholic
family during the Holocaust. She was told that her parents were taken by the Nazis.

Misha ran away in an attempt to find her parents. She ended up living in the woods
at age 7, and fending for herself until she met, and was taken in by, a pack of wolves.

Pretty awesome story so far, right? IT GETS BETTER!

Years later, as an adult, she told her story and a small publisher convinced her to write a book.
She was supposed to go on Oprah but she dropped out the night before the appearance.
She ended up accusing the small publisher of stealing her royalties, and sued. She won.

But, that’s where the story starts to get very, very interesting. Her publisher started to suspect
something weird was going on. Could she get the huge judgement against her overturned?
Enter historians and genealogists and the twists in this tale get even more juicy! source

 

[seoulsearch]

Have you ever been to visit Seoul? Or anywhere in Korea? Did you know many Koreans growing up?

I grew up in WhiteTown in the middle of Nowheresville, USA, so I grew up around exactly 0 Asian people. Which is why, if someone asked me, I would say that I identify 100% socially and culturally as white. The only thing Asian about me is my genes.

However, some Asian adoptees feel the exact opposite, so it's a very individual thing. I've been to Korea and Seoul once as an adult through my adoption agency (Holt International Children's Services,) but I felt absolutely no connection there.

One of the reasons I wrote this thread is because my DNA test claims I am a small percentage of another race, and I always wonder how people would react if I started claiming that and trying to say I am that race. Seeing they happen to be two countries with a long history of bitter conflict, I know it wouldn't go over well.

I have also always wondered why, out of all the mixes of races, white/black are always asked to choose a side. "Are you white or are you black?" I don't know of my other mixed friends being asked, "Are you white or are you Asian?" "Are you Latino or are you white?" etc. I'm sure it happens, but it makes me sad that people who are white/black are not encouraged to celebrate all of who they are.

My whole life, I've always been "in the middle," and there were times when I hated it but yet liked to see what I could do with it at the same time. One day I was talking to a black coworker and a white coworker (who went to 99% black schools) walked up, and I joked, "I'm sorry, but this conversation is only for us People of Color."

The great thing is that they both burst out laughing and joking together (even if it was at me,) because anyone who knows me could see that my describing myself as a "person of color" would be an oxymoron. No, I'm not outwardly white, but I'm about as pale as the backside of the moon.

One of the things I think God is teaching me about my calling in life is to reframe the way I have always thought. Because I was always in-between cultures, races, classes, etc., I never fit into one side or the other and therefore always saw myself as an outsider or an outcast.

One day I was sitting with my Grandpa among a group of World War II veterans who were comparing their experiences, but some were hard of hearing, and so I had to repeat what one would say to the other in a loud, clear voice. Essentially, I was "translating" between the members of the group, even though they all spoke the same language.

It was in that "lightbulb!" moment that God told me, "You are a bridge between people."

Because of this, I'm slowly learning to accept that I'm not really meant to stand on one side or the other, and that's also why I encounter so much misunderstanding.

 

[Sculpt]

Hey Everyone,

This is a question that's really been on my mind, especially since I saw a story about a girl who outwardly appears white, took a DNA test, found out her ethnicity was something like (if I remember right,) 0.9% Jamaican, and is now presenting herself on social media with dark skin, cornrows, and posts saying that she is "proudly claiming her black heritage" -- and people are utterly slamming her for it.

This reminded me of a black friend I have and how it affected this person emotionally when they found out that one of their great great great grandparents had been white. No, this person did not try to claim to be white, but it definitely blurred the lines for them regarding certain white/black social issues.

With the popularity and easy accessibility of home DNA tests, I think most people will find that almost no one is 100% of any one particular ethnicity. I've grown up hearing people say (usually with a healthy amount of normal pride) that they are Italian, or Native American, or Irish, etc., even though one parent only who was, for example, half of that ethnicity.

Does a person have a right to claim a certain ethnicity as their own based on fractional bloodlines and/or cultural background?

I was fascinated by the story of Rachel Dolezal, the white woman who says she identifies as black, and even took prominent positions within the black community before she was outed by her own white parents:

I've always been in a unique place myself because although I am Asian, I grew up in all-white surroundings, and so traditional Asians don't see me as being Asian. But even though "white" is the closest I identify with both socially and culturally, I would never try to claim that I am a white person, though I do identify with the term "banana", which is given to many Asian adoptees in my situation (yellow on the outside, white on the inside.) This is just my own statement for myself -- I can't speak for anyone else's situation, including those who were raised in similar circumstances. I have met and read many stories about others in the same situation who identify with their biological heritage/culture and not the one they were raised in.

* In a society that tells us we can choose everything about our own identity, including gender, what rules are to be followed regarding ethnicity?

* For example, "how Italian" does one have to be in order to claim to be Italian? Is 10% enough? What about 49.99% Or if a person is 10% of 10 different ethnicities, does he or she have a right to claim all 10?

* In other words, exactly how much of an ethnicity "counts" enough in order for a person to be able to claim to be an active part of it?

I know this thread might seem like something more geared towards the Family Forum, but Singles is where I normally post, and ethnicity issues have always been a big part of my life.

I'm guessing it is for many others as well.

If you feel comfortable with sharing, what ethnicities do you personally identify with, and how much of them do you have in order to "justify to others" (as society will demand you to do) that you should be "allowed" to "qualify" what you claim to be?

I would love to hear your story, as well as your thoughts about all the things being discussed under the topic of this thread.

Curious about the 'banana' term. You said you identify with the term. Was that a funny friendly kidding term you threw and received with friends, who may have been asian too? I'm guessing you just find it funny, and aren't offended by it?

As far as how much of an ethnicity or genetic marker % you need before you can claim that ethnicity or 'race'... i have no idea. I certainly would never take anyone to task on a claim they were making unless they were close and I wanted to kid them. Not sure why people want to take anyone to task about it... seems like there's more important things.

 

[Gojira]

I think people will always be curious about their ancestors, and that is a good normal thing. Also it does matter a bit for certain medical reasons, I read an article about a young man trying to get a kidney transplant and the hospital wouldn't put him on the donor list because he had a small percentage of African blood in him.

That's fine. But, the kind of things Seoul was describing were the results of culture war craziness here in the US.

 

[Lynx]

I have also always wondered why, out of all the mixes of races, white/black are always asked to choose a side. "Are you white or are you black?" I don't know of my other mixed friends being asked, "Are you white or are you Asian?" "Are you Latino or are you white?" etc. I'm sure it happens, but it makes me sad that people who are white/black are not encouraged to celebrate all of who they are.

If you asked me what breed my dog was, you'd get a list. The animal shelter called him an Australian Shepherd mix. His face looks like a cross between a Labrador and terrier. He walks like a coon hound. Mentally sometimes he outsmarts me, which seems more like border collie.

What is a black/white person? I dunno. Maybe we need to invent a name. Call them milk chocolate perhaps? But they are neither all white nor all black.

If I were half white and half black, I'm sure I would not be willing to give up either side of my heritage, from Chicago deep-dish pizza to African music styles.