The Holy Trinity in the first three verses of the Bible!

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Feb 24, 2022
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#41
That linguistic similarity doesn’t work in Hebrew, so it is irrelevant.

The text states, ‘God said, “Let there be light” and there was light’. It says nothing about the shekinah, no matter how much you want it to.

It also says nothing about the light emanating from Himself. You cannot rightly interpret the text when you insist on adding to it what simply isn’t there.
"The glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light", I pointed it out in the OP. "shekinah glory" is just a theological term to describe it like "trinity" for the father, son and holy spirit. Just because it's not in the text doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I don't add anything, I let the bible interpret itself.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,037
13,567
113
#42
"The glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light", I pointed it out in the OP. "shekinah glory" is just a theological term to describe it like "trinity" for the father, son and holy spirit. Just because it's not in the text doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I don't add anything, I let the bible interpret itself.
Actually, you don’t. You believe it says things that it simply does not say. The context tells you that Genesis 1:3 is talking about physical light only, and says nothing about Christ. Christ was never ‘separated from darkness’… anywhere in Scripture.
 
Feb 24, 2022
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#43
Actually, you don’t. You believe it says things that it simply does not say. The context tells you that Genesis 1:3 is talking about physical light only, and says nothing about Christ. Christ was never ‘separated from darkness’… anywhere in Scripture.
Where did that physical light come from? There was no sun, moon or star until Day 4, I didn't make that up, go read 1:14-19. It may not say in here, but it says in a lot of other places in the bible, and you're just ignoring them. And by the way, light is not "physical" matter.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#44
"The glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light", I pointed it out in the OP. "shekinah glory" is just a theological term to describe it like "trinity" for the father, son and holy spirit. Just because it's not in the text doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I don't add anything, I let the bible interpret itself.
Shekinah is a manifestation of the Spirit of God.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,737
5,542
113
#45
Although Ishmael was the firstborn, he was the result of Abraham's own action. He probably misunderstood God's promise of countless descendants as an order instead of a promise, and he was under peer pressure from Sarah, so he took matters in his own hand. God reaffirmed the covenant with Abraham after Ishmael was born in Gen. 17 when he was 99, and one year later, Isaac was born as the son of promise.
Although Ishmael was the firstborn, he was the result of Abraham's own action.

Yes amen he was actually born of Abraham and sarias doubt of Gods promise to provide an heir . that’s why paul Likens him tonthe old covenant based on mans own works of transgression and their ability to keep
Perfectly the book of the law.

but likens isaac to the new covenant based on Gods word of promise the gospel of the kingdom.

Ishmaels blessing was this

“And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

( but Isaacs promise was this after Abraham and Sarah received new names and were promised parents of many nations )

But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


So you have ishmael and his continued blessing after he is cast out of abrahams inheritance

“Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son. And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed. And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beer-sheba.
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭21:10-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Abrams son ishmael His covenant allegorically not physically represents Israel’s twelve tribes and the law of Moses

“And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Corresponding here in the natural children

“These are those that were numbered, which Moses and Aaron numbered, and the princes of Israel, being twelve men: each one was for the house of his fathers.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭1:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬


But Isaac is where Gods covenant of promise is regarding all nations and allegorically represents the new covenant the gospel of the kingdom and abrahams inheritance

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭



like ishmael the old covenant doesn’t offer abrahams inheritance he was cast out and given a seperate covenant.

“For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to be abrahams children is to believe the gospel and get baptized in christs name and be the hiers of promise like Isaac

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
Apr 11, 2021
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#46
With respect, I must disagree with you, on the basis of John 1:3 (in context):

"All things were made through him [Jesus], and without him [Jesus] was not any thing made that was made." (ESV)

In other words, God made everything through Jesus, and since God made the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1:1, Jesus must have existed at that time, which is prior to Genesis 1:3.
That is correct , he was in existence simply by the word God. Which means mighty ones! God the father God The son, God the spirit " let (us) make man" .... Us here is God ( The mighty ones)😊
 
Feb 24, 2022
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#47
Although Ishmael was the firstborn, he was the result of Abraham's own action.

Yes amen he was actually born of Abraham and sarias doubt of Gods promise to provide an heir . that’s why paul Likens him tonthe old covenant based on mans own works of transgression and their ability to keep
Perfectly the book of the law.

but likens isaac to the new covenant based on Gods word of promise the gospel of the kingdom.

Ishmaels blessing was this

“And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

( but Isaacs promise was this after Abraham and Sarah received new names and were promised parents of many nations )

But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


So you have ishmael and his continued blessing after he is cast out of abrahams inheritance

“Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son. And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed. And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beer-sheba.
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭21:10-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Abrams son ishmael His covenant allegorically not physically represents Israel’s twelve tribes and the law of Moses

“And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Corresponding here in the natural children

“These are those that were numbered, which Moses and Aaron numbered, and the princes of Israel, being twelve men: each one was for the house of his fathers.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭1:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬


But Isaac is where Gods covenant of promise is regarding all nations and allegorically represents the new covenant the gospel of the kingdom and abrahams inheritance

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭



like ishmael the old covenant doesn’t offer abrahams inheritance he was cast out and given a seperate covenant.

“For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to be abrahams children is to believe the gospel and get baptized in christs name and be the hiers of promise like Isaac

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬
The most brilliant part is Paul's allegorical interpretation. This is not just some drams in family history, it points to Jesus and salvation through Jesus. Ishmael is our old self born of flesh, Isaac is our new self born of the spirit. The old self is in enmity with the new self, as Ishmael was "scoffing" at Issac (Gen. 21:9), and when we ought to subdue our fleshly desires and submit to the will of God, we're "displeased" as Abraham was "displeased" when Sarah told him to cast out Hagar and Ishmael (Gen. 21:10-11). Paul used this familiar section in the Torah to demonstrate how to read Jesus in the Old Testament.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,737
5,542
113
#48
The most brilliant part is Paul's allegorical interpretation. This is not just some drams in family history, it points to Jesus and salvation through Jesus. Ishmael is our old self born of flesh, Isaac is our new self born of the spirit. The old self is in enmity with the new self, as Ishmael was "scoffing" at Issac (Gen. 21:9), and when we ought to subdue our fleshly desires and submit to the will of God, we're "displeased" as Abraham was "displeased" when Sarah told him to cast out Hagar and Ishmael (Gen. 21:10-11). Paul used this familiar section in the Torah to demonstrate how to read Jesus in the Old Testament.
Amen loved that post !!! And because we are new people born of a better spirit we have a better covenant now.

yes the ot is really about Jesus in many many many ways just like your saying he appears everywhere in figure and prophecy.

Isaac for instance speaks of what God was going to later do in Christ when the time of the ot was fulfilled just one short example and then New Testament witness of it

“And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son;…

…And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, and said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: that in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:2, 6, 8-12, 15-18‬ ‭

this is such a clear image of the gospel even the resurrection when you consider the New Testament witness

By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:17-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel literally answers what Abraham did but it applies to the original promise of how God would bless all People through Abraham and his seed of promise which we realize is actually Jesus and Isaac was an allegorical figure of him

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so abrahams children are born through Christ and the gospel of all nations through the faith of baptism into his seed which is Christ

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ….And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He appears in many ways like that such as also the son of David the promised eternal king and his promises also which build upon abrahams promises

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He fills the Old Testament like that and then he came to fulfill all those things in reality.it changes everything when we start seeing the ot is a true witness of Jesus Christ through and through it makes these type of statements make so much sense

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:19-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It’s amazing when we realize the whole Bible is about Jesus isn’t it ?
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
#49
Amen loved that post !!! And because we are new people born of a better spirit we have a better covenant now.

yes the ot is really about Jesus in many many many ways just like your saying he appears everywhere in figure and prophecy.

Isaac for instance speaks of what God was going to later do in Christ when the time of the ot was fulfilled just one short example and then New Testament witness of it

“And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son;…

…And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, and said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: that in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:2, 6, 8-12, 15-18‬ ‭

this is such a clear image of the gospel even the resurrection when you consider the New Testament witness

By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:17-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel literally answers what Abraham did but it applies to the original promise of how God would bless all People through Abraham and his seed of promise which we realize is actually Jesus and Isaac was an allegorical figure of him

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so abrahams children are born through Christ and the gospel of all nations through the faith of baptism into his seed which is Christ

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ….And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He appears in many ways like that such as also the son of David the promised eternal king and his promises also which build upon abrahams promises

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He fills the Old Testament like that and then he came to fulfill all those things in reality.it changes everything when we start seeing the ot is a true witness of Jesus Christ through and through it makes these type of statements make so much sense

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:19-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It’s amazing when we realize the whole Bible is about Jesus isn’t it ?
Yes, Gen 22 painted a clearer picture of the crucifixion. Jesus was the ram provided by God and sacrificed in Isaac's place, the thicket was the crown of thorns. You may have noticed a common theme in the OT, that the firstborn often fell from grace, then the younger child received blessing and brought salvation. That was the case for Cain and Abel, Ishmael and Isaac, Esau and Jacob, Reuben and Joseph, Aaron's two older sons and two younger sons, Jesse's older sons and David, Absolom and Solomon, etc. This theme was even extended into the parable of the prodigal son. Ultimately, this points to Adam and Jesus - death in the first Adam, life in the SECOND Adam. As descendants of Adam we all will die, but those who believe in Jesus will receive eternal life.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,737
5,542
113
#50
Yes, Gen 22 painted a clearer picture of the crucifixion. Jesus was the ram provided by God and sacrificed in Isaac's place, the thicket was the crown of thorns. You may have noticed a common theme in the OT, that the firstborn often fell from grace, then the younger child received blessing and brought salvation. That was the case for Cain and Abel, Ishmael and Isaac, Esau and Jacob, Reuben and Joseph, Aaron's two older sons and two younger sons, Jesse's older sons and David, Absolom and Solomon, etc. This theme was even extended into the parable of the prodigal son. Ultimately, this points to Adam and Jesus - death in the first Adam, life in the SECOND Adam. As descendants of Adam we all will die, but those who believe in Jesus will receive eternal life.

Amen it is really woven right into the fabrics of the ot word

Not cain the firstborn but abel , not abram the Hebrew but Abraham father of many nations , Not ishmael the firstborn but Isaac , not esau the firstborn but Jacob who was after called israel , not the covenant Given from Sinai through Moses , but the covenant given from heaven through the messiah not the first life in the flesh but the resurrection life by the spirit