RAPTURE

cv5 · Mar 13, 2022

You are absolutely correct my friend. It's as simple as that. Of course this happens before Daniels 70th week tribulation coming upon those who dwell upon the Earth....the remaining Israelites and gentiles who did not partake of the age of Grace aka the Church age.

cv5 · Mar 13, 2022

BillG said:

Almighty God is capable of far more stupendous works than simply emptying a suit in the rapture. To do so is absolutely effortless. I have no idea why people have trouble with comprehending the logistics of the rapture. Dead easy.

On the other hand, the completed work of Jesus Christ on the cross.....now that is an infinite incomprehensible amount of effort right there.

FreeGrace2 · Mar 13, 2022

massager said:

It seems you have misunderstood John 14:1-3 then.

1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.
2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

v.1 is a plea to put their faith in Jesus.
v.2 Jesus tells His disciples that He would go to heaven and prepare places for them. This is a guarantee of eternal security. Note that John 14 was said AFTER Judas left the passover in ch 13. Jesus was giving His 11 disciples assurance of their salvation.
v.3 has already been fulfilled. Jesus DID GO and prepare a place for His 11 disciples.

The last phrase, "I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am." is the same promise found in 1 Thess 4:17 - After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

So John 14:1-3 has been fulfilled regarding the preparation of rooms for the 11 disciples, all of whom have died and are now in heaven.

The last phrase in v.3 will be fulfilled at the Second Advent when Jesus returns to resurrects all the dead saints and changes "in the twinkling of an eye" all the living saints. iow, EVERY saved person from Adam forward will get their glorified bodies at that time.

Rev 20 reveals what happens next. After the resurrection, which includes the Trib martyrs, all believers will serve/reign with Christ in His millennial kingdom.

There will be NO trip to heaven for glorified believers. Or the Bible would have made that clear. Instead, there is NO mention of any such trip after resurrection.

DavidTree · Mar 13, 2022

massager said:

Matt 24 indeed is the rapture and corresponds with Acts 1:1-11 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 2 Thess 2:1-4 , 1 John ch2 & ch3 and of course Rev

DavidTree · Mar 13, 2022

massager said:

HE has already accomplished this for us = John 14: 1-6 = John ch17 = John ch20 = Ephesians ch2 and more

DavidTree · Mar 13, 2022

cv5 said:

Your claim is a outright LIE and shame on you for hardening your heart in unrighteousness.

Matthew chapter 24 the Bride of Christ, His Church, is asking the BrideGroom/JESUS when HE is Returning for HIS Bride/Church/Elect.

Artios1 · Mar 13, 2022

massager said:

I should have been clearer ….

For referencing the gathering together (rapture) as spoken of in 1 Thes 4:13-18 We cannot use scripture from Old Testament nor gospels. Those all refer to the tribulation period.
Why? ↓
The grace administration was not revealed until a time after Pentecost when Paul received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. It was a mystery (secret) kept hid with God. So there will not be any prophecy regarding the rapture ....Think of the grace administration as a surprise party that nobody but God knew about.

If you want scripture reference on this ...let me know.....

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

The tribulation period begins like a thief in the night....

The rapture begins with a shout …then with the voice of the archangel … with the trump of God. Then... the dead arise first. This is not referred to as a resurrection, because there will be many still alive.

We meet the Lord in the air …Jesus never physically comes to the earth… in round one.

And so shall we ever be with the Lord.

There are many contrasting events between the rapture and what is spoken of in the gospels regarding the tribulation.

One thing to keep in mind when you read Thessalonians is the reference to the “day of the Lord” or “the Lords day” that is referring to the tribulation.
The gathering together unto him, the day of redemption, our glorious hope, the coming of our Lord Jesus …..all give reference to the rapture.

One correction: in 2 Thes 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

If you have a KJV ....the word Christ should read Lord ….I believe all other versions have it correctly ….it’s the Greek word kyrios.
In most cases it wouldn’t make a big difference… but here, it is the distinction between the rapture…. or the day of the Lord (tribulation).

DavidTree · Mar 13, 2022

A.) When does the rapture occur according to Scripture?
B.) Does the rapture occur before the Second Coming of Christ?
C.) Does the rapture occur before the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ?

Answers: 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
Therefore encourage one another with these words.

A.) Rapture occurs at the Coming of Christ = 1 Thess 4:13-16

B.) The rapture does not occur before His Coming = 1 Thess 4:16

C.) The rapture does not occur before the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ = 1 Thess 4:16-17

cv5 · Mar 13, 2022

massager said:

There are a lot of RAPTURE threads on Christian Chat. Do you know how to use the "search" function?

cv5 · Mar 13, 2022

massager said:

BillG · Mar 14, 2022

cv5 said:

Almighty God is capable of far more stupendous works than simply emptying a suit in the rapture. To do so is absolutely effortless. I have no idea why people have trouble with comprehending the logistics of the rapture. Dead easy.

On the other hand, the completed work of Jesus Christ on the cross.....now that is an infinite incomprehensible amount of effort right there.

??????

jb · Mar 14, 2022

massager said:

Matt 24(v29-31) is MOST certainly a reference to the rapture of the Church! Rev 11v15-18, 1Thess 4v13-18, 1Cor 15v50-54 (with Isaiah 25v6-9)

Have a look Here

GRACE_ambassador · Mar 14, 2022

jb said:

Except when it is "left in God's Context," Then it is most Certainly NOT
a reference. Please be Very RICHLY:

Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, Edified, And Comforted! Amen?:

Part I

God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding
In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (1 Thessalonians 4:18)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With
The Second Coming, is found in God's Context:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9!)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9!)
-------------------
The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:

(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 19:16, 11!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth With ONE army, * “All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 25:31; Revelation 19:11, 15)

(5) With Another trumpet (AFTER "the 7th angel trumpet in heaven), on
the earth, Angels Are SENT, By The KING, TO: “gather the elect”...
(Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25:31-46!)

(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew 25:34-46!)

to be continued...

GRACE_ambassador · Mar 14, 2022

Part II

God's Prophetic Program, and second earthly coming

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:

(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (1 Thessalonians 4:16!)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13!)

(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep {in 3)} First, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” {which
Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52-53!)

(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1-2;
Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18!)

6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1 Corinthians 3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10;
Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25!)

(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians 5:27!)

(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live * Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22;
1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJB!)

* Note, The ONE army Of The Body Of CHRIST, Must "have been
assigned our Heavenly positions" for ruling and reigning! Amen?

Conclusion: verses Never "taken Out Of God's Context" and
"placed in HIS Other Context" will Never Cause Confusion. Amen?
---------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD,
Gift Of Eternal Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of
Glorification When You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.
---------------------------------------------------------
Please Be Very Richly Edified, Encouraged, And Comforted! And:
Precious friend(s), see you In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫ 😇 ↑

BroTan · Mar 14, 2022

massager said:

Well, the day of the Lord is when Jesus will makes his second coming with all his saint. Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; (Joel 2:1). But let's look at at the first thing that will happen in Revelation 6: 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So when the heaven roll back altogether then as it says in Revelation 1: 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.

So this will be for a time, maybe a least six months or so. Since the dead in Christ will raise first, let's see what this is really called. Let's go into Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: moreover, I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Now let us see how people and or the saints came up in the first resurrection. Lets go into Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Let's go into 1Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

So according to Bible it's called the first resurrection and it's much more to this first resurrection to understand, but hope this will help.

jb · Mar 15, 2022

GRACE_ambassador said:

Part II

God's Prophetic Program, and second earthly coming

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:

(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (1 Thessalonians 4:16!)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13!)

(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep {in 3)} First, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” {which
Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52-53!)

(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1-2;
Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18!)

6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1 Corinthians 3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10;
Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25!)

(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians 5:27!)

(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live * Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22;
1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJB!)

* Note, The ONE army Of The Body Of CHRIST, Must "have been
assigned our Heavenly positions" for ruling and reigning! Amen?

Conclusion: verses Never "taken Out Of God's Context" and
"placed in HIS Other Context" will Never Cause Confusion. Amen?
---------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD,
Gift Of Eternal Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of
Glorification When You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.
---------------------------------------------------------
Please Be Very Richly Edified, Encouraged, And Comforted! And:
Precious friend(s), see you In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫ 😇 ↑

As clear as mud!

It doesn't change the fact that there is no such doctrine as a (secret) pre-tribulation advent and rapture taught in the Scriptures, it is in fact a destructive heresy, the Lord Jesus saying that those who taught such a false doctrine were false prophets and teachers, and that He would NOT come in secret, BUT in glory immediately after the (great) "tribulation of those days." Matt 24v23-31.

I would also point out the warning in Rev 22v18,19, about adding to or taking away from the doctrine of the Second Coming!

DavidTree · Mar 16, 2022

Did the LORD ever say '7 Years after the rapture I will Return with the Resurrected Saints' ???

Can you find one OT Prophet saying 'after 7 Years of Tribulation Messiah will Return'???

Can you find just one verse where the LORD or the Apostles quote a 7 Year Rapture with Christ in Heaven and then a Return???

What about 3.5 Years? Can you find anywhere in Scripture where the LORD specifically says HE will rapture His Elect PRIOR to Tribulation???

What about Enoch?
What about Elijah?

massager · Oct 10, 2022

Let's come together and encourage a life

GRACE_ambassador · Oct 10, 2022

massager said:

Encouraging And Comforting is The Doctrine Of God's Great Grace
Departure To Heaven, not Mat 24 (prophecy), But, In God's Mystery!:

"...In a Moment, in the twinkling of an eye..." (1Co 15:52), [Correct!],
"...the dead (asleep In Jesus), Shall Be raised first..." (1Th 4:16).

GRACE, Peace, And JOY in Christ, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided, 'links' I and II!

oyster67 · Oct 10, 2022

massager said:

At the sound of a trumpet, the bodies of the dead shall be raised up and the living shall ascend up with them into the clouds. Later, at the Second coming, the saints will return back down with Him.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
“Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

Jude 1:14
“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,”

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