One taken,one left. The rapture.

[DavidTree]

AMEN Brother!! I am sure you are here for the same reason I am my best to make sure this false doctrine doesn't take anyone else. IF we don't put forth the truth, then the lies will win and another soul maybe lost. IF even one soul is saved, it is worth it. And what we receive just makes us

I am not sure that up until computers it could have been proven false as it has been because even with these it is so slippery going from one place to the next without ever addressing, let alone fixing a single issue.

The church 'as a unit/group' (be that singular or plural), is never taken to heaven, ONLY those who have fallen asleep go, so the church can never 'exist/live, reign or rule there or come back as a 'unit/group' except as all those who have died and risen.

That is why that issue is never addressed. We have seen it asked repeatedly with no answers just like all the other questions. ALWAYS back to the same circle. But I think it is to keep us from building upon the foundations laid as we are supposed to. But that isn't working because I have been receiving a lot of new truths lately that have no relation to this but somehow are opening up and I believe it is because of how this makes me SEE HIS WORDS without my thoughts. This may be the best training ever on how to 'rightly divide' the words of God, for me anyhow. And there that is.

Like you, I have seen the most egregious rearranging of Scripture to support their false narrative.

Simple question for pre-trippers: Does the rapture occure BEFORE the Resurrection of the Dead? = 1 Thess 1:10 , 4:13-18

If the answer is 'Yes' then the Apostle Paul was in complete error, including the LORD and please show the Scripture.....

To date, no answer/scripture has been authenticated from the Mouth of God to declare a pre-trib rapture.

Enoch and Elijah lived during great tribulation and did not leave this earth prior to it.

Thus, Two Witnesses return during the same tribulation they left in, only to be put to death = in tribulation.

 

[kleronomos]

Like you, I have seen the most egregious rearranging of Scripture to support their false narrative.

Simple question for pre-trippers: Does the rapture occure BEFORE the Resurrection of the Dead? = 1 Thess 1:10 , 4:13-18

If the answer is 'Yes' then the Apostle Paul was in complete error, including the LORD and please show the Scripture.....

To date, no answer/scripture has been authenticated from the Mouth of God to declare a pre-trib rapture.

Enoch and Elijah lived during great tribulation and did not leave this earth prior to it.

Thus, Two Witnesses return during the same tribulation they left in, only to be put to death = in tribulation.

I have never thought about the resurrection of the dead in relation to rapture either before or after (because I don't think those 'dead' who are being resurrected are in the best of shape or place anyhow) but from your point of view, would that be because that would necessitate another 'resurrection'?

The more questions we ask the less possible it is shown to be, but those heels are dug in and I don't think the 'cost' is even truly considered. And the time spent with false doctrines does no good (for anyone) and in fact it would be better do nothing at all. Tragic.

One of my big ones has to do with the war in heaven. To be 'pre trib' would mean the war in heaven would still be going on, so what happens when the armies leave? How could that ever work? AND why would GOD want to do anything at that time anyway.

And the lamb opens the seals and at the 7th seal there is silence for 1/2 hour, isn't that like 1/2 the total time? Why take the church to heaven just to turn around and bring them back and have it miss what it NEEDS to be perfected? So many questions.

 

[DavidTree]

I have never thought about the resurrection of the dead in relation to rapture either before or after (because I don't think those 'dead' who are being resurrected are in the best of shape or place anyhow) but from your point of view, would that be because that would necessitate another 'resurrection'?

The more questions we ask the less possible it is shown to be, but those heels are dug in and I don't think the 'cost' is even truly considered. And the time spent with false doctrines does no good (for anyone) and in fact it would be better do nothing at all. Tragic.

One of my big ones has to do with the war in heaven. To be 'pre trib' would mean the war in heaven would still be going on, so what happens when the armies leave? How could that ever work? AND why would GOD want to do anything at that time anyway.

And the lamb opens the seals and at the 7th seal there is silence for 1/2 hour, isn't that like 1/2 the total time? Why take the church to heaven just to turn around and bring them back and have it miss what it NEEDS to be perfected? So many questions.

IMHO - Revelation is not written in strict chronoligical order but recycles Itself throughout the Text to bring us to the Conclusion(s) that the LORD wants to reveal to us based on what has been previously written from Genesis onward.
There is chronological order in Revelation but it is also coded by HS7 whereby the understanding is dependent upon this:

Deuteronomy 4:12 & Proverbs 30:1-6 & Matthew 4:1-4 & Revelation 22:18-21

Brother Pilgrimshope has successfully elaborated on this aspect of Revelation being built upon what has already been written.

 

[DavidTree]

I have never thought about the resurrection of the dead in relation to rapture either before or after (because I don't think those 'dead' who are being resurrected are in the best of shape or place anyhow) but from your point of view, would that be because that would necessitate another 'resurrection'?

The more questions we ask the less possible it is shown to be, but those heels are dug in and I don't think the 'cost' is even truly considered. And the time spent with false doctrines does no good (for anyone) and in fact it would be better do nothing at all. Tragic.

One of my big ones has to do with the war in heaven. To be 'pre trib' would mean the war in heaven would still be going on, so what happens when the armies leave? How could that ever work? AND why would GOD want to do anything at that time anyway.

And the lamb opens the seals and at the 7th seal there is silence for 1/2 hour, isn't that like 1/2 the total time? Why take the church to heaven just to turn around and bring them back and have it miss what it NEEDS to be perfected? So many questions.

You said " another resurrection?" - not sure what you mean by this but there is a specific reason why the LORD relates the FIRST Resurrection to those beheaded for their witness and it has to due with the false doctrine of pre-trib rapture which HE foreknew would occur in His Church/Body/Saints.

 

[kleronomos]

IMHO - Revelation is not written in strict chronoligical order but recycles Itself throughout the Text to bring us to the Conclusion(s) that the LORD wants to reveal to us based on what has been previously written from Genesis onward.
There is chronological order in Revelation but it is also coded by HS7 whereby the understanding is dependent upon this:

Deuteronomy 4:12 & Proverbs 30:1-6 & Matthew 4:1-4 & Revelation 22:18-21

Brother Pilgrimshope has successfully elaborated on this aspect of Revelation being built upon what has already been written.

IT definitely is not written in chronological order. GOD made sure we understood that by placing chapter 12 smack in the middle. IMHO it is a description of the same event from many different points of view. The end is coming. Satan and his angels are coming, Christ is returning and the Lords Day begins. THAT IS THE ENTIRE STORY. The beasts rise, the beasts are put down, the Lords Day begins. As this 'time' comes to an end, evil becomes more and more prevalent, God comes to recompense, The Lords Day begins. Simplicity in Christ. EVERYTHING fits without conflict.

 

[DavidTree]

IT definitely is not written in chronological order. GOD made sure we understood that by placing chapter 12 smack in the middle. IMHO it is a description of the same event from many different points of view. The end is coming. Satan and his angels are coming, Christ is returning and the Lords Day begins. THAT IS THE ENTIRE STORY. The beasts rise, the beasts are put down, the Lords Day begins. As this 'time' comes to an end, evil becomes more and more prevalent, God comes to recompense, The Lords Day begins. Simplicity in Christ. EVERYTHING fits without conflict.

And thus the repeating Theme of 7

 

[kleronomos]

You said " another resurrection?" - not sure what you mean by this but there is a specific reason why the LORD relates the FIRST Resurrection to those beheaded for their witness and it has to due with the false doctrine of pre-trib rapture which HE foreknew would occur in His Church/Body/Saints.

Let me show you why I BELIEVE I have a different belief about the 'first resurrection'.

I DO NOT BELIEVE IT HAS TO DO with a specific time or place SUCH AS WHEN HE RETURNS which is WHAT I currently believe is believed by others


OR I HAVE A MISUNDERSTANDING IS WHAT IS BEING SAID BY OTHERS. IDK


Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
THESE ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION

Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
THESE ARE ALSO OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION

Peter 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
THESE ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION


1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
THESE ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION





Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them
THESE ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION




AND
ALSO A PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION ARE THOSE WHO

I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.





5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



IF YOU are born and that FIRST TIME the Lord and Savior is offered and you accept - YOU ARE PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION NO MATTER HOW YOU DIE.


What are your views?

 

[kleronomos]

And thus the repeating Theme of 7

What is the 'Theme of 7'?

 

[DavidTree]

What is the 'Theme of 7'?

The number 7 in Scripture is COMPLETION/REST = thus No Rest unless His Will is Completed

Six days of work but only on the 7th Day is there REST and this 7th Day is the Lord Jesus Christ

There is a REST waiting for the Jews (and Gentiles) and that REST is the MESSIAH

3 is the Number of Elohim = Genesis ch1 Exodus ch3 John ch1 (entire Gospel of John)

HS7 is REST for us = the down payment for the Glory that is still to Come.

The 7th Day is Returning and HE will bring the world into REST after HE destroys the wicked one and locks up satan.

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of [f]corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

 

[DavidTree]

Let me show you why I BELIEVE I have a different belief about the 'first resurrection'.

I DO NOT BELIEVE IT HAS TO DO with a specific time or place SUCH AS WHEN HE RETURNS which is WHAT I currently believe is believed by others


OR I HAVE A MISUNDERSTANDING IS WHAT IS BEING SAID BY OTHERS. IDK


Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
THESE ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION

Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
THESE ARE ALSO OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION

Peter 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
THESE ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION


1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
THESE ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION





Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them
THESE ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION




AND
ALSO A PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION ARE THOSE WHO

I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.





5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



IF YOU are born and that FIRST TIME the Lord and Savior is offered and you accept - YOU ARE PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION NO MATTER HOW YOU DIE.


What are your views?

What you are seeing in Scripture are TWO Resurrections which is TRUE

1st Resurrection is SPIRIT = Born-Again = John ch3 , John 14:1-4 , John ch17 , Ephesians 2:1-10 , Romans 8:1 , Rev 1:5-6 and more

2nd Resurrection is GLORIFIED Bodies = 1 Cor ch15 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , Romans 8:18-25 , 1 John 3:1-3

 

[FreeGrace2]

Let me show you why I BELIEVE I have a different belief about the 'first resurrection'.

I DO NOT BELIEVE IT HAS TO DO with a specific time or place SUCH AS WHEN HE RETURNS which is WHAT I currently believe is believed by others


OR I HAVE A MISUNDERSTANDING IS WHAT IS BEING SAID BY OTHERS. IDK

I vote for #2. The believers' single resurrection is actually stated in Rev 20:5. The verse even makes reference to the second resurrection,
the resurrection of the unsaved, which is for the purpose of the GWT judgment.

 

[FreeGrace2]

What you are seeing in Scripture are TWO Resurrections which is TRUE

1st Resurrection is SPIRIT = Born-Again = John ch3 , John 14:1-4 , John ch17 , Ephesians 2:1-10 , Romans 8:1 , Rev 1:5-6 and more

2nd Resurrection is GLORIFIED Bodies = 1 Cor ch15 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , Romans 8:18-25 , 1 John 3:1-3

This is what the Bible says about how many resurrections:

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Here we see there are two resurrections; one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Rev 20:4,5
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

The black bolded sentence refers to unbelievers, which is the second resurrection. The red words refers to the Trib martyrs (saved) and shows that the resurrection of the saved occurs before the unsaved, by 1,000 years.

 

[Absolutely]

AGAIN, I AM NOT USING NOAH OR LOT TO REFRAME ANYTHING AS THERE IS NOTHING TO REFRAME AS THERE IS NO PRE TRIB RAPTURE. IT IS A DOCTRINE OF MAN. IT IS A FALSE DOCTRINE, SO I DON'T NEED THEM TO BE REFRAMED TO EITHER MAKE PRE TRIB WORK OR NOT.

NOT ONE PERSON DID GOD USE TO TEACH IT AS A DOCTRINE. NOT ONE PERSON DID GOD USE TO TEACH IT AS A DOCTINE


HERE is what NEEDS TO BE DONE
2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Satan is coming to deceive

CHRIST comes AFTER in FLAMING FIRE with His angels to TAKE VENGEANCE.

That is the order IT IS WRITTEN.

Jesus used them.
He did it to FRAME HIS COMING.
I am simply repeating it.

"As in the days of noah BEFORE THE FLOOD..."

Luke 17:28
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

I repeat it.
You omit, deny, reframe, repeat.

You comtend it is NOT PREJUDGMENT OR NORMAL LIFE

wow.
Reframing Gods word over what???
Your doctrine!
The following mirrors the pretrib rapture;
Luke 17
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Absolutely]

Let me show you why I BELIEVE I have a different belief about the 'first resurrection'.

I DO NOT BELIEVE IT HAS TO DO with a specific time or place SUCH AS WHEN HE RETURNS which is WHAT I currently believe is believed by others


OR I HAVE A MISUNDERSTANDING IS WHAT IS BEING SAID BY OTHERS. IDK


Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
THESE ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION

Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
THESE ARE ALSO OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION

Peter 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
THESE ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION


1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
THESE ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION





Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them
THESE ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION




AND
ALSO A PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION ARE THOSE WHO

I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.





5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



IF YOU are born and that FIRST TIME the Lord and Savior is offered and you accept - YOU ARE PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION NO MATTER HOW YOU DIE.


What are your views?

You inadvertantly pointed out there is no resurrection mentioned at the coming on white horses.

The resurrection is at the ptetrib rapture.

 

[DavidTree]

This is what the Bible says about how many resurrections:

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Here we see there are two resurrections; one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Rev 20:4,5
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

The black bolded sentence refers to unbelievers, which is the second resurrection. The red words refers to the Trib martyrs (saved) and shows that the resurrection of the saved occurs before the unsaved, by 1,000 years.

These Resurrections (Acts , 1 Cor , I John 3 , Rev ) speak of the entire personhood = Body Soul & Spirit

For us who are Saved there is the resurrection from our dead(spirit) when we are Born-Again and then when HE Returns for the Resurrection of the Body into His Glorious Image = 1 John 3:1-3

Our first resurrection = John ch3 Ephesians ch2

Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.”
3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.a”
4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?”
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘Youb must be born again.’ 8The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.
4But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.a

 

[Absolutely]

This is what the Bible says about how many resurrections:

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Here we see there are two resurrections; one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Rev 20:4,5
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

The black bolded sentence refers to unbelievers, which is the second resurrection. The red words refers to the Trib martyrs (saved) and shows that the resurrection of the saved occurs before the unsaved, by 1,000 years.

Yes indeed.
Two.
The first one has the first stage.
*Jesus firstfruits ( first stage)
Then;
*The dead in christ at the rapture.
*The martyrs in the gt
Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus used them.
He did it to FRAME HIS COMING.
I am simply repeating it.

No, you are reframing what Jesus was teaching. He was referring to people's lifestyles.

"As in the days of noah BEFORE THE FLOOD..."

Yeah, just what was it "as in the days of Noah before the flood"? This is what Jesus said:
Luke 17:28
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;[/QUOTE]
Why do you see a trip to heaven in these words? The words describe what people WERE DOING. Nothing about where Noah was going.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You inadvertantly pointed out there is no resurrection mentioned at the coming on white horses.

The resurrection is at the ptetrib rapture.

Rev 20:5 tells us when the first resurrection will occur. Which is AFTER/at the end the Tribulation.

 

[Absolutely]

AMEN Brother!! I am sure you are here for the same reason I am my best to make sure this false doctrine doesn't take anyone else. IF we don't put forth the truth, then the lies will win and another soul maybe lost. IF even one soul is saved, it is worth it. And what we receive just makes us

I am not sure that up until computers it could have been proven false as it has been because even with these it is so slippery going from one place to the next without ever addressing, let alone fixing a single issue.

The church 'as a unit/group' (be that singular or plural), is never taken to heaven, ONLY those who have fallen asleep go, so the church can never 'exist/live, reign or rule there or come back as a 'unit/group' except as all those who have died and risen.

That is why that issue is never addressed. We have seen it asked repeatedly with no answers just like all the other questions. ALWAYS back to the same circle. But I think it is to keep us from building upon the foundations laid as we are supposed to. But that isn't working because I have been receiving a lot of new truths lately that have no relation to this but somehow are opening up and I believe it is because of how this makes me SEE HIS WORDS without my thoughts. This may be the best training ever on how to 'rightly divide' the words of God, for me anyhow. And there that is.

IF we don't put forth the truth, then the lies will win and another soul maybe lost.

By Omitting and reframing verses???

What baloney

 

[GaryA]

You said: "If you get too caught up " and "Don't get caught up in that."

Pun intended??? LOL

That's funny...

No, it never occurred to me - it was "accidental" for sure.