Do SDA believe Michael is God?

[TheLearner]

"Israel's Advocate.

One of the archangels one of the chief princes"; Dan. x. 13), who is also represented as the tutelary prince of Israel (ib. x. 21, xii. 1). The signification of the name (= "Who islike El"?) was recognized by the Talmudists, who found an allusion to it in Ex. xv. 11 () and in Deut. xxxiii. 26 (), combining the first word of the former passage with the second of the latter (Num. R. ii. 9)."
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10779-michael

"
The brilliancy of the morning star, which eclipses all other stars, but is not seen during the night, may easily have given rise to a myth such as was told of Ethana and Zu: he was led by his pride to strive for the highest seat among the star-gods on the northern mountain of the gods (comp. Ezek. xxviii. 14; Ps. xlviii. 3 [A.V. 2]), but was hurled down by the supreme ruler of the Babylonian Olympus. Stars were regarded throughout antiquity as living celestial beings (Job xxxviii. 7).

The familiarity of the people of Palestine with such a myth is shown by the legend, localized on Mount Hermon, the northern mountain of Palestine and possibly the original mountain of the gods in that country, of the fall of the angels under the leadership of Samḥazai (the heaven-seizer) and Azael (Enoch, vi. 6 et seq.; see Fall of Angels). Another legend represents Samḥazai, because he repented of his sin, as being suspended between heaven and earth (like a star) instead of being hurled down to Sheol (see Midr. Abḳir in Yalḳ. i. 44; Raymund Martin, "Pugio Fidei," p. 564). The Lucifer myth was transferred to Satan in the pre-Christian century, as may be learned from Vita Adæ et Evæ (12) and Slavonic Enoch (xxix. 4, xxxi. 4), where Satan-Sataniel (Samael?) is described as having been one of the archangels."
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10177-lucifer

 

[TheLearner]

"Both question and answer, as well as the dialogue which follows, characterize Satan as that member of the divine council who watches over human activity, but with the evil purpose of searching out men's sins and appearing as their accuser. He is, therefore, the celestial prosecutor, who sees only iniquity; for he persists in his evil opinion of Job even after the man of Uz has passed successfully through his first trial by surrendering to the will of God, whereupon Satan demands another test through physical suffering (ib. ii. 3-5).

...

The doctrine of the fall of Satan, as well as of the fall of the angels, is found also in Babylonia (Schrader, l.c. p. 464), and is mentioned several times in the New Testament. Satan rules over an entire host of angels (Martyrdom of Isaiah, ii. 2; Vita Adæ et Evæ, xvi.). Mastema, who induced God to test Abraham through the sacrifice of Isaac, is identical with Satan in both name and nature (Book of Jubilees, xvii. 18), and the Asmodeus of the Book of Tobit is likewise to be identified with him, especially in view of his licentiousness.

...

In the New Testament.
The high development of the demonology of the New Testament presupposes a long period of evolution."
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13219-satan

 

[TheLearner]

https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4311-cherub

 

[TheLearner]

Logically broken.

Jesus defers to God His Father, ergo (your logic) Jesus is not God (your logic).

Read Exodus 20:12. Jesus/Michael always honours His Father.

Exodus 20
Easy-to-Read Version
The Ten Commandments
20 These are the things God told his people:

2 “I am the Lord your God. I am the one who freed you from the land of Egypt, where you were slaves.

3 “You must not worship any other gods except me.

4 “You must not make any idols. Don’t make any statues or pictures of anything up in the sky or of anything on the earth or of anything down in the water. 5 Don’t worship or serve idols of any kind, because I, the Lord, am your God. I hate my people worshiping other gods.[a] People who sin against me become my enemies, and I will punish them. And I will punish their children, their grandchildren, and even their great-grandchildren. 6 But I will be very kind to people who love me and obey my commands. I will be kind to their families for thousands of generations.

7 “You must not use the name of the Lord your God to make empty promises. If you do, the Lord will not let you go unpunished.

8 “You must remember to keep the Sabbath a special day. 9 You may work six days a week to do your job. 10 But the seventh day is a day of rest in honor of the Lord your God. So on that day no one should work—not you, your sons and daughters, or your men and women slaves. Even your animals and the foreigners living in your cities must not work! 11 That is because the Lord worked six days and made the sky, the earth, the sea, and everything in them. And on the seventh day, he rested. In this way the Lord blessed the Sabbath—the day of rest. He made that a very special day.

12 “You must honor and respect your father and your mother. Do this so that you will have a full life in the land that the Lord your God gives you.

13 “You must not murder anyone.

14 “You must not commit adultery.

15 “You must not steal anything.

16 “You must not tell lies about other people.[c]

17 “You must not want to take your neighbor’s house. You must not want his wife. And you must not want his men and women servants or his cattle or his donkeys. You must not want to take anything that belongs to another person.”

The People Are Afraid of God
18 During all this time, the people in the valley heard the thundering and saw the lightning on the mountain. They saw smoke rising from the mountain and heard the sound of the trumpet. They were afraid and shook with fear. They stood away from the mountain and watched. 19 Then the people said to Moses, “If you want to speak to us, then we will listen. But please don’t let God speak to us. If this happens, we will die.”

20 Then Moses said to them, “Don’t be afraid! God has come to test you. He wants you to respect him so that you will not sin.”

21 The people stood far away from the mountain while Moses went to the dark cloud where God was. 22 Then the Lord told Moses to say this to the Israelites: “You people have seen that I talked with you from heaven. 23 So you must not make idols using gold or silver to compete with me. You must not make these false gods.

24 “Make a special altar for me. You should use dirt to make this altar. Offer sheep and cattle as burnt offerings and fellowship offerings on this altar. Do this in every place where I tell you to remember me. Then I will come and bless you. 25 But if you use stones to make an altar, then don’t use stones that were cut with an iron tool.[d] If you do that, it will make the altar unacceptable. 26 And you must not make steps leading up to the altar. If there are steps, when people look up to the altar, they will be able to see under your clothes.”

 

[TheLearner]

Smoke is smoke. She came in (on your beck and call) blowing hard, disagreeing with nearly all my recent posts and demonstrated no interest in addressing what I have presented in detail, all completely contrary to what scripture tells her to do. I don't care about her status in the world or her worldly education (I as Paul count my own learning and education of such things as dung). I only care that she is in physical pain, and I have the cure for her with me. I offer such to her freely and in all charity.

Prov 18:13: "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."

If she wants to discuss languages, dictionaries, degrees, she can start her own thread. I'll join her there as time allows and show her by God's grace what real bible study is.

Brother, friend you may should present an outline of your case. Followed in next posts a short summary of your case for each key point. Most people will not read the long posts. I know this will come back to bite me.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

[

My name means "God is Judge". Does anyone really believe that I am equal with Jesus at the Judgement?

nope , it’s like saying “ who is like God ?” It’s a declaration that no one is “ God is judge” is an acknowledgement that man is not. A good name to have

“For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:9-13‬ ‭

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

no, it doesn't.

lucifer is a Latin word that Jerome put for the Hebrew helel, which is not clearly understood but based on etymology probably means 'one who shines' - from the word halal which means to shine.
lucifer was put there because it carries in Latin the meaning of shining, and because it was very often used to describe the planet Venus, the 'morning star' or 'daystar' or 'son of the morning' -- which is also directly referred to in Isaiah 14:12, the only place 'helel' is found in the scripture.


helel is written like this -- הֵילֵל
remember that Hebrew is read from right to left, and doesn't have written vowels - the little dots are indicators of what vowel should be read there. so the ל is like our letter 'l' - there are two of those at the end of helel, with a dot under the first indicating we should read an 'e' between them.

the word for God, El, is written like this -- אֵל

you can see in the ((strictly)) interrogative, 'who is like God?' / michael, how that אֵל is in the word: וּמִיכָאֵ֧ל
it is not in helel.

there is no hint in the language that helel has anything to do with God's light -- the word for God is simply not present there.
i.e. your private 'one who bears God's light' definition is completely spurious and clearly incorrect.

Yes, it (Lucifer) does mean, in context of Isaiah & Ezekiel, one who bears God's light.

The problem with your "scholar" (Malachi 2:12) is that they are myopic in their blindness of following the ideology of men.

Isa 14:12: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

Isaiah 14:12 HOT
איך נפלת משמים הילל בן שחר נגדעת לארץ חולש על גוים׃

Do you see any diacritics? No, because they were all added later.

Isaiah 14:12 HOT translit. ëykh' näfal'Tä miSHämayim hëylël Ben-shächar nig'Da'Tä lääretz chôlësh al-Gôyim

You obviously cannot read Hebrew or English, since the text does not anywhere equate Lucifer to being the morning star.

The text clearly reads, "O Lucifer, son of the morning" (hëylël Ben-shächar) (הילל בן שחר).

The words for "Venus" (נוגה), or even "star" (כוכב) is completely absent. Morning is different from the night stars (Nehemiah 4:21).

Lucifer was not, and never has been "the morning star"; for that is for Michael/Christ/Son of God alone, for it is another way of saying the sun of righteousness (Malachi 4:2; Psalms 19:4-5), the "day dawn ... the day star" (2 Peter 1:19), the light of God (Revelation 21:23; John 1:7, 8:12, 9:5, 12:46, etc).

Lucifer was once a son of God, a child of the light, a reflector of God's glory.

Lucifer (Latin) means "light bearer", and it was not his own light he bore, but merely reflected God's own glory before he trusted that the light he bore came of himself (Ezekiel), and so fell.

Lucifer's brightness was never his own. It was when he began to reason so that he fell. The context of Lucifer's name stems from the brightness he once reflected from God's own glory, hence, "one who bears God's light".

Whether from halal (assumed) being heyel, meaning to shine, or from heyl (strength, force, etc) El (God) both reveal that Lucifer was as covering cherub to God the reflector (once perfect) of God's glory/light, having once been standing in God's presence. What is interesting is that the angel which replaced Lucifer has a similar name "Gabriel" (Gbr El, strength of God or God is strong in him).

In your attempt to derail the topic, and simply bring the conversation to pointless mentions of added diacritics of an unrelated nature, just to be argumentative and petty because you refuse to address my specific questions on the OP, you have made Lucifer the morning star and added to God's word, and subtracted from the context of Isaiah and Ezekiel. Woe unto you scribes.

2Pet 1:19: "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:"

Hos 6:3: "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth."

Rev 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star."

Seventh-day Adventists are the new bearers of God's light/glory:

Job 11:17: "And thine age shall be clearer than the noonday; thou shalt shine forth, thou shalt be as the morning."

Song 6:10: "Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners?"

Isa 58:8: "Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward."

Read the context of Isaiah with Ezekiel and put away what you think is true, for God's word which is truth.

Those who speak Hebrew from scripture will acknowledge that what I said is true, but those who get their Hebrew learning from other than the Bible (Psalms 119) will continue in their manmade errors.

 

[TheLearner]

[


nope , it’s like saying “ who is like God ?” It’s a declaration that no one is “ God is judge” is an acknowledgement that man is not. A good name to have

“For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:9-13‬ ‭

It was a ????????but starts with an R... question for someone claiming the name of angel....forgot again.

 

[TheLearner]

star at #307

 

[TheLearner]

fell down to here

Good Night all

 

[posthuman]

Thanks so much! I was on this med from 2010-2013. It worked well, but the evaluation process was terrible in Alberta, but BC uses normal procedures.

I've really been bad for 3 years, on a biologic that wasn't working well. My left hand has become very deformed and lots of brain fog!

Prayers are coveted. Although the Health & Wealth gospel is totally unbiblical & bogus, God still heals our body, souls and minds within his will. I'm so grateful for all God has transformed and changed me!

i have understood over the last couple years you've had problems, and i miss you being lucid, talking with me
it's understood. i haven't been my best self, either
sis, in the resurrection, we will have no such issues. that is what we look towards
meanwhile, i love you always, anyways

 

[posthuman]

My name means "God is Judge". Does anyone really believe that I am equal with Jesus at the Judgement?

my name means "God is my strength"



who thinks i am as strong as God?
they are wrong lol

 

[posthuman]

What is "Michael dares not disrespect Satan, even while Satan is fallen, he still occupies a higher station in the angelic order. " based on?

on Satan walking among the fiery stones, being adorned with all beauty, and perfect in his ways -- very much like an Adam of the angelic order, in a mineral Eden
being then jealous of Adam, when this creation was revealed -- seeking to corrupt it, to malign God, after Satan had been judged and cast down; his first earthly realm destroyed by water. the Spirit hovered over void, but the earth was created to be inhabited.

on Jude 8 & Jude 10, in contrast with Jude 9, according to chiastic structure -- the wicked being spoken of, do not respect authority and dignified station, but speak evil of what they do not know.
Michael on the other hand, respects authority, and doesn't dare speak against a ruler of his people -- a high ranking cherub, if not the ((formerly)) highest of all. as David would not lift a hand against Saul, even while Saul was fallen from grace and David was anointed.

it is to me, the only explanation that fits. calling Michael God absolutely fails to make Jude make sense.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

Hebrew was my first language from childhood and I corrected your misunderstanding of Daniel 10 --- the correct reading is "one of" NOT "first of".

Where did I say in this thread, "first of" in regards Daniel 10? Point to the specific post with link, and if you cannot find it, correct your abuse of me publicly.

 

[posthuman]

Read Exodus 20:12. Jesus/Michael always honours His Father.

glorify Me together with Yourself,
with the glory which I had with You before the world was
(John 17:5)

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!
(Deuteronomy 6:4) ​

 

[posthuman]

Where did I say in this thread, "first of" in regards Daniel 10? Point to the specific post with link, and if you cannot find it, correct your abuse of me publicly.

let me save him the trouble of defending himself:

it's a comment on the long series of quotes that @JesusLives put, whose basic theology you yourself have also been preaching openly.

forgive @TheLearner if he mistakenly lumped those with equivalent views together.

everything, is a lot to keep up with
judge as you would like yourself to likewise be judged; sound advice

 

[posthuman]

Thanks so much! I was on this med from 2010-2013. It worked well, but the evaluation process was terrible in Alberta, but BC uses normal procedures.

I've really been bad for 3 years, on a biologic that wasn't working well. My left hand has become very deformed and lots of brain fog!

Prayers are coveted. Although the Health & Wealth gospel is totally unbiblical & bogus, God still heals our body, souls and minds within his will. I'm so grateful for all God has transformed and changed me!

yes even the thorns in our sides are for our benefit -- i trust Him completely

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

12 “You must honor and respect your father and your mother. Do this so that you will have a full life in the land that the Lord your God gives you.

Angela ain't my mother according to scripture.

Gal 4:26: "But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

Mat 12:50: "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."

Now go read Psalms 40:8 in Hebrew if it please you along with Exodus 20:8-11 in the same, then read Exodus 20:6 then John 14:15, then 1 John 2:4; Revelation 21:8, 2:2; Acts 20:30.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

yes even the thorns in our sides are for our benefit -- i trust Him completely

Why not trust the cure in scripture then? Think about it, free from the torment of the devil. Yet how many refuse to come to Him for the cure precisely because they lack faith.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

let me save him the trouble of defending himself:

You make excuses for everyone but me. For me you specifically make it your business to faultfind. I see you for what you really are, not as you pretend to be. Your religion makes me sick of heart.