Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

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Aug 3, 2019
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Not in the text…
OK, do you believe it is a Biblical principle that Satanic witches have power over dead saints to compel them to rise from the dead? If so, please provide chapter and verse.

I, on the other hand, can show this to be impossible:

  • Sin shall not have dominion over us
  • we are "more than conquerors" over the enemy
  • we are no longer subject to the bondage or authority of Satan
  • we stand as judges of demons and witches and wicked men
  • ...I could continue, but it's not necessary.

Your witness, counsel.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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Your confusing ressurection with Salomon's spirit being allowed by God to chew out Saul
I think you're confused..."Salomon" didn't chew out Saul: SAMUEL did.

Also, "Samuel's spirit" returned to God when he died...are you saying God involuntarily released that spirit according to the word of a satanic witch?
 
Aug 3, 2019
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I think God sent the spirit or sould of Solomon to chew out Saul.
You see? Phoneman777 holds y'all feet to the fire, and y'all start dancing around ;)

Does the Bible say the witch raised "Samuel" or not? If so, does a satanic witch have power over the saints?

These are questions we can't ignore and just ask. The only solution to the problem is that "Samuel" was not Samuel, but a demon. Job says "he shall return no more to his house".
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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I think you're confused..."Salomon" didn't chew out Saul: SAMUEL did.

Also, "Samuel's spirit" returned to God when he died...are you saying God involuntarily released that spirit according to the word of a satanic witch?
It was Samuel’s soul that was brought up, not his spirit that was brought down to bring life back to the body. The soul continues to live unlike that false preacher of yours states.

It was Samuel. Scripture states it was Samuel. Nothing in the passage leads us to believe otherwise. Follow scripture not the preacher.
 

TheLearner

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I think you're confused..."Salomon" didn't chew out Saul: SAMUEL did.

Also, "Samuel's spirit" returned to God when he died...are you saying God involuntarily released that spirit according to the word of a satanic witch?
I am often tired. And, I think God sent him to chew the king out. This is why the women was surprised because it was not her demon that showed up.
 

TheLearner

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Do you believe the wicked can demonstrate "agape" which is keeping the commandments, according to 1 John 5:3 KJV?

YES OR NO?
The passage I was referencing was John 3:16 which I introduced.

As for your text,
"
Word: agaph

Pronounce: ag-ah'-pay

Strongs Number: G26

Orig: from 25; love, i.e. affection or benevolence; specially (plural) a love-feast:--(feast of) charity(-ably), dear, love. G25

Use: TDNT-1:21,5 Noun Feminine

Heb Strong: H160

  1. 1) brotherly love, affection, good will, love, benevolence
    2) love feasts
"
 

Duckybill

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2021
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.

I am in Christ Jesus the everlasting fire. As long as I am in Him I do not burn or consume away. Only those outside of God's Ark will "perish" (John 3:16).
Where does the Bible say Jesus is the "everlasting fire"?
Perhaps you should consider the Bible more carefully and historical Christianity, rather than paganized Christianity (Catholicity doctrinally speaking).

Try these resources:

State Of The Dead & Annihilation Hellfire Non SDA Quotes : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

What about these?

Doctrine - The Soul Sleepers - Chapter 4 The Major Seventeenth Century Advocates

Doctrine - Emmanuel Petavel Olliff - The Problem Of Immortality

Doctrine - Charles L Ives - The Bible Doctrine Of The Soul An Answer To The Question

Doctrine - Albert C. Johnson - Conditional Immortality

Doctrine - A Debate On The State Of The Dead - Nathaniel Field Vs Thomas P Connelly

Doctrine - Henry Grew (Baptist) - State Of The Dead &c Owned By Joseph Frisbie, With His Personal Markings

Stephen Bohr - Secrets Unsealed - State Of The Dead & Hellfire Sermons

Christian Mortalism From Tyndale To Milton By Norman T. Burns

Doctrine - William Tyndale - Tyndales Answer To Sir Thomas More

Doctrine - Wenham John - The Case For Conditional Immortality

Doctrine - Vladimir Baranozv - Sleep Of The Soul [18177565 Scrinium] “Angels In The Guise Of Saints” A Syrian Tradition In Constantinople

Doctrine - Life And Immortality By Basil Atkinson

Doctrine - Glenn A Peoples - Soul Sleep - Rethinking Hell Chapter 2

Doctrine - Dirk Krausmuller - Soul Sleep - [18177565 Scrinium] Christian Platonism And The Debate About Afterlife

Doctrine - Christopher M Date - Soul Sleep - 18. MJTM. 69 92 Date

Doctrine - Richard Whately - A View Of The Scripture Revelations Concerning A Future State

Doctrine - H H Dobney & John Milton - The Scripture Doctrine Of Future Punishment An Argument

Doctrine - George Storrs - An Inquiry Are The Wicked Immortal In Six Sermons Also Have The Dead Knowledge Which Is Prefixed An Extract On The Second Death By Archbishop Whately

SDA - D M Canright - A History Of The Doctrine Of The Soul Among All Races And Peoples, Ancient And Modern...; Carefully Brought Down To The Present Time

Doctrine - The State Of The Dead - John Milton (Paradise Lost)

Doctrine - F. Gavin - The Sleep Of The Soul In The Early Syriac Church

Doctrine - Bryan W. Ball - Sixteenth Century Continental Conditionalists

Doctrine - Aphrahat By J. Edward Walters - Sleep Of The Soul And Resurrection Of The Body

Hell & Mr Fudge - Edward Fudge

Doctrine - Death - LeRoy Edwin Froom - The Conditionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 02

Doctrine - Death - LeRoy Edwin Froom - The Conditionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 01

Secrets Unsealed - Stephen Bohr - Misunderstood Texts On The State Of The Dead : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
LOTS of non Scripture there!
 

Duckybill

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2021
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You're preaching Moses but you don't obey Moses???
Umm, the quotes are from the New Testament of Jesus Christ. Matthew was An Apostle of Jesus Christ. The Gospel of Matthew is the testimony of Jesus Christ. This is kind of a question out of left field about Moses.

I don't preach Moses as the Great Commission is per Jesus's teaching not a Mosaic requirement. I am a Christian which means I obey Jesus. So I guess you are right - I don't obey Moses. Your insight is impeccable! :)

So if Jesus says He has fulfilled the Law, how do you conform your statement that Law is of no effect, useless, devoid of wisdom. Can I mark that you disregarding Matt 5:17? There are many verses that are denigrated when you deny the Old Testament.

I quote Jesus and you say it's "helmongering". Good luck on Judgment Day!
If I said "Your quotes are about as useful as teats on a bull" and you say "Transgender bulls are wonderful as my quotes", I am certain you have misunderstood my meaning. No you did not quote scripture properly. You are teaching a doctrine that is not expounded and explicitly supported in the Scriptures.
I will need all the luck I can get for Judgement Day. Thank you for the blessing,

Consider the blasphemy of gobblygook. Consider your statement
OP - Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!
Post #1,533 - "Then why does it differ from nearly every Christian Bible? Because you like it? Death NEVER means "cease to exist" in the Bible. Matthew 25:41 (NKJV) ..."

The original text was written in Greek and then translated. I hope you understand that the original words were not in english. So depending how you translate, it may produce different meaning. So let us translate a few verses to gobblygook and see what is the hellmongers view of the Scriptures.

The crux is that "death" is redefined by the hellmongers "Death NEVER means "cease to exist" in the Bible".

Let us replace death as hell-life. dead as hellbound. hades as hell1 sheol as hell2 gehenna as hell3
We all know what the terms approximately mean, so let us translate english to gobblygook.

2 Timothy 1:10 beomes "but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished hell-life and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,"

So you are saying Jesus abolished the torture chamber stuff but nothing more, as hell-life is immortal already. Are you denying Jesus brought immortality as well as life? Sounds kind of dodgy to me.

Hebrews 2:14 becomes "Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through hell-life He might render powerless him who had the power of hell-life, that is, the devil,"

So Jesus taken to hell for 3 days and vile things were done to him. You know that Jesus was the means by which all was made that includes the hell=life (death that is not death) and the devil. You know Jesus was the Perfect Adam. Immaculate. Sinless. But he was subject by a subordinate (all things were created for and by means of Jesus) creature, satan, who somehow got the keys of hell way back in past. Sounds like kind of weird pagan mish mash to me.

There are many verses with resurrection. You know what resurrection in gobblygook is - freedom from torture. Immortality and imperishability are extraneous things put forth by Jesus (in gobblygook)

Hmm... Weird and blasphemeous if you ask me. Since all sins against Jesus may be forgiven, I wonder what gobblygook may be saying about Him that Sent him. God is not so forgiving on foundational matters,
I didn't ask you if believing Jesus is blasphemous. You said believing Jesus is "hellmongering".

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And
they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Amen Jesus!
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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The pagan teaching of hell fire was introduced into christianity by the catholic church in the dark ages. As a result many have left the faith because this paints an evil picture of God.
The God that i love and trust will not burn and torture people for ever and ever.
They will be forever destroyed by their punishment.
 

Duckybill

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2021
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The pagan teaching of hell fire was introduced into christianity by the catholic church in the dark ages. As a result many have left the faith because this paints an evil picture of God.
The God that i love and trust will not burn and torture people for ever and ever.
They will be forever destroyed by their punishment.
They will certainly wish they were destroyed!

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And
they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
 

Duckybill

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Aug 16, 2021
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Satan LOVES it when people deny "the everlasting fire" that Jesus warned us about. He wants our company "forever and ever".
 
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Where does the Bible say Jesus is the "everlasting fire"?
Deu 4:24: "For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God."

Deu 9:3: "Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee."

Heb 12:29: "For our God is a consuming fire."

Hab 3:6: "He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting."

Hab 1:12: "Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction."

Mic 5:2: "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

Isa 33:14: "The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?"

Isa 33:15: "He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;"
 

Duckybill

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Aug 16, 2021
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Deu 4:24: "For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God."

Deu 9:3: "Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee."

Heb 12:29: "For our God is a consuming fire."

Hab 3:6: "He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting."

Hab 1:12: "Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction."

Mic 5:2: "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

Isa 33:14: "The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?"

Isa 33:15: "He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;"
The question was, "Where does the Bible say Jesus is the "everlasting fire"?" NOTHING you said implies in any way that Jesus is the "everlasting fire". Do you even realize that belief in the "everlasting fire" is not required for residency therein?

Luke 16
"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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I didn't ask you if believing Jesus is blasphemous. You said believing Jesus is "hellmongering".

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And
they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Amen Jesus!
Master Sergeant
Hellmonger
11640
66 ILVL
50HumanFrost Death KnightDragonblight
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/us/dragonblight/hellmonger/collections/pets
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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The pagan teaching of hell fire was introduced into christianity by the catholic church in the dark ages. As a result many have left the faith because this paints an evil picture of God.
The God that i love and trust will not burn and torture people for ever and ever.
They will be forever destroyed by their punishment.
I already posted information from Jewish Encylopedia that shows what you claim is not true, brother, friend.

Go back and find the posts.

Daniel
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
The pagan teaching of hell fire was introduced into christianity by the catholic church in the dark ages. As a result many have left the faith because this paints an evil picture of God.
The God that i love and trust will not burn and torture people for ever and ever.
They will be forever destroyed by their punishment.
I already posted information from Jewish Encylopedia that shows what you claim is not true, brother, friend.

Go back and find the posts.

Daniel

"unquenchable fire" (Mark 9:43

"21. And there were certain there hanging by the tongue: and these were the blasphemers of the way of righteousness; and under them lay fire, burning and punishing them. 22. And there was a great lake, full of flaming mire, in which were certain men that pervert righteousness, and tormenting angels afflicted them.
25. And near that place I saw another strait place into which the gore and the filth of those who were being punished ran down and became there as it were a lake: and there sat women having the gore up to their necks, and over against them sat many children who were born to them out of due time, crying; and there came forth from them sparks of fire and smote the women in the eyes: and these were the accursed who conceived and caused abortion.
28. And over against these again other men and women gnawing their tongues and having flaming fire in their mouths: and these were the false witnesses.
32. And alongside of that cliff there was a place full of much fire, and there stood men who with their own hands had made for themselves carven images instead of God. And alongside of these were other men and women, having rods and striking each other and never ceasing from such punishment."
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apocalypsepeter-roberts.html
 

TheLearner

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"The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Soṭah 22a); according to Gen. R. ix. 9, the words "very good" in Gen. i. 31 refer to hell; hence the latter must have been created on the sixth day. Yet opinions on this point vary. According to some sources, it was created on the second day; according to others, even before the world, only its fire being created on the second day (Gen. R. iv., end; Pes. 54a). The "fiery furnace" that Abraham saw (Gen. xv. 17, Hebr.) was Gehenna (Mek. xx. 18b, 71b; comp. Enoch, xcviii. 3, ciii. 8; Matt. xiii. 42, 50; 'Er. 19a, where the "fiery furnace" is also identified with the gate of Gehenna). Opinions also vary as to the situation, extent, and nature of hell. The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there. It was in Zion, and had a gate in Jerusalem (Isa. xxxi. 9). It had three gates, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem ('Er. 19a). The gate lies between two palm-trees in the valley of Hinnom, from which smoke is continually rising (ib.). The mouth is narrow, impeding the smoke, but below Gehenna extends indefinitely (Men. 99b). According to one opinion, it is above the firmament, and according to another, behind the dark mountains (Ta'an. 32b). An Arabian pointed out to a scholar the spot in the wilderness where the earth swallowed the sons of Korah (Num. xvi. 31-32), who descended into Gehenna (Sanh. 110b).
...
Because of the extent of Gehenna the sun, on setting in the evening, passes by it, and receives from it its own fire (evening glow; B. B. 84a). A fiery stream ("dinur") falls upon the head of the sinner in Gehenna (Ḥag. 13b). This is "the fire of the West, which every setting sun receives. I came to a fiery river, whose fire flows like water, and which empties into a large sea in the West" (Enoch, xvii. 4-6). Hell here is described exactly as in the Talmud. The Persians believed that glowing molten metal flowed under the feet of sinners (Schwally, "Das Leben nach dem Tode," p. 145, Giessen, 1892). The waters of the warm springs of Tiberias are heated while flowing past Gehenna (Shab. 39a). The fire of Gehenna never goes out (Tosef., Ber. 6, 7; Mark ix. 43 et seq.; Matt. xviii. 8, xxv. 41; comp. Schwally, l.c. p. 176); there is always plenty of wood there (Men. 100a). This fire is sixty times as hot as any earthly fire (Ber. 57b). There is a smell of sulfur in Gehenna (Enoch, lxvii. 6). This agrees with the Greek idea of hell (Lucian, Αληθεῖς Ιστορίαι, i. 29, in Dietrich, "Abraxas," p. 36). The sulfurous smell of the Tiberian medicinal springs was ascribed to their connection with Gehenna. In Isa. lxvi. 16, 24 it is said that God judges by means of fire. Gehenna is dark in spite of the immense masses of fire; it is like night (Yeb. 109b; comp. Job x. 22). The same idea also occurs in Enoch, x. 4, lxxxii. 2; Matt. viii. 12, xxii. 13, xxv. 30 (comp. Schwally, l.c. p. 176).
...
The Book of Enoch (xxvii. 3, xlviii. 9, lxii. 12) paraphrases this thought by saying that the pious rejoice in the pains of hell suffered by the sinners. Abraham takes the damned to his bosom ('Er. 19a; comp. Luke xvi. 19-31). The fire of Gehenna does not touch the Jewish sinners because they confess their sins before the gates of hell and return to God ('Er. 19a). As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al.). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17)."
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6558-gehenna