Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

[Phoneman-777]

what word for love is used in John 3:16?

The word "love" doesn't appear in John 3:16...it's "loved".

Are you too going to argue the ridiculous notion that the wicked can partake of "agape" ?

Again, "agape" is demonstrated by the keeping of God's commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV) but the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).

 

[Phoneman-777]

The lady was surprised, thus had no control over .... him.

Did the witch raised "Solomon" or not?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Where does it say God rose Moses at that time?

Not specifically mentioned...however, we read God and Satan had a disagreement over Moses' body, and Moses later appeared with Elijah who had his resurrection body.

Therefore, the disagreement between God and Satan was either over who would get display Moses' body like a stuffed game animal, whether his organs ought be donated to medical science, whether to bury him as he was or deposit him cremated in an urn....

...OR THEY STOOD OVER THE BODY OF MOSES DISAGREEING AS TO WHETHER GOD HAD THE RIGHT TO RESURRECT MOSES FROM THE DEAD, SEEING THAT HE WAS AS GUILTY OF SIN AS SATAN WAS.

A blind man can see what this disagreement was about.

 

[posthuman]

Isaiah 28 approved hermeneutics

Isaiah says "them"
who does context dictate "them" refers to?
those under the law or those who are not under the law?

 

[posthuman]

Not specifically mentioned...however, we read God and Satan had a disagreement over Moses' body, and Moses later appeared with Elijah who had his resurrection body.

Therefore, the disagreement between God and Satan was either over who would get display Moses' body like a stuffed game animal, whether his organs ought be donated to medical science, whether to bury him as he was or deposit him cremated in an urn....

...OR THEY STOOD OVER THE BODY OF MOSES DISAGREEING AS TO WHETHER GOD HAD THE RIGHT TO RESURRECT MOSES FROM THE DEAD, SEEING THAT HE WAS AS GUILTY OF SIN AS SATAN WAS.

A blind man can see what this disagreement was about.

Moses body did not decay in the way other men's bodies do. Deuteronomy 34:7

 

[John146]

While the power of God can resurrect the dead, the satanic power of a witch can never do the same. So, what was it the witch of Endor raised up? A demon spirit impersonation Samuel.

Not in the text…

 

[TheLearner]

While the power of God can resurrect the dead, the satanic power of a witch can never do the same. So, what was it the witch of Endor raised up? A demon spirit impersonation Samuel.

Your confusing ressurection with Salomon's spirit being allowed by God to chew out Saul

 

[TheLearner]

The word "love" doesn't appear in John 3:16...it's "loved".

Are you too going to argue the ridiculous notion that the wicked can partake of "agape" ?

Again, "agape" is demonstrated by the keeping of God's commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV) but the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).

The word loved is a form of agape, https://biblehub.com/greek/25.htm

 

[TheLearner]

Did the witch raised "Solomon" or not?

I think God sent the spirit or sould of Solomon to chew out Saul.

 

[TheLearner]

Not specifically mentioned...however, we read God and Satan had a disagreement over Moses' body, and Moses later appeared with Elijah who had his resurrection body.

Therefore, the disagreement between God and Satan was either over who would get display Moses' body like a stuffed game animal, whether his organs ought be donated to medical science, whether to bury him as he was or deposit him cremated in an urn....

...OR THEY STOOD OVER THE BODY OF MOSES DISAGREEING AS TO WHETHER GOD HAD THE RIGHT TO RESURRECT MOSES FROM THE DEAD, SEEING THAT HE WAS AS GUILTY OF SIN AS SATAN WAS.

A blind man can see what this disagreement was about.

Huh? If you are saying God would argue with Satan that is silly. Michael would simply turn it over to God to kick Satan in the rear.

 

[TheLearner]

read to here

 

[Duckybill]

Mat 10:25: "It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?"

Your belief in the "everlasting fire", quoting Jesus, is not required for your residency therein.

 

[Duckybill]

Don't you check for context?

"Matthew 5:22 is in the context of legal matters. Prove it."
A liitle up. Jesus Fulfills the Law
Matt 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
A liitle up. Old law of thou shalt not murder
Matt 5:21Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
A liitle down. Old law at that thou shalt not commit adultery
27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Further down, divorce issues
31It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: Vows

"You KNOW you don't obey Moses. Stop telling us you do!"
It is not about me duckybill, if that is your real name.
I am comfortable with the times and seasons. It is your claim that you speak for Jesus. You have already disregarded Matthew 5:18.

"Caps get your attention." Yes it does. It is somehat amusing. Can I ask how long that takes to show your anger in such a way? It feels like a young child talking, no offence.

"You blasphemed the Holy Spirit?" I could be if the hell doctrine was true. How many possible Christians would be turned of by An All Loving God.? Hmm, what a dastardly message all supported by the bible. But I will stick to my guns. Hell is a false doctrine of the nicolaitan sort. Which segways to my duckybill hypocrisy numero deux.

Anyways Post "Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!"
"OT? The NT teaches MUCH about the "everlasting fire". No need for OT." Post #1,846
speaking about definitions

Jesus fulfilled the Wisdom of God.
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

In fact, h\He did as His Father Said.
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

So when you belittle the OT are you insulting God or Jesus? Both are blasphemies in my book.

You're preaching Moses but you don't obey Moses???

 

[Duckybill]

Blasphemy of hellmongering

Consider earthly conduct
James 2:11For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. 12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

This is the explanation of the Law vis-a-vis your denial of the OT. But, carrying on, does mercy triumph over judgement in your hell or will you deny this verse also?

Consider false prophets
Matt 15:3He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”
15Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.”
16“Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17“Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

So what of torture in your spectrum of heartfelt thoughts like adultery or slander? Don't hellmongers imagine the writhing pain of the resident. Think of cheating you are a cheater. Think of slander you are a murderer. Are these true or are you going to deny these notions too?

Cancer to the body of Christ
2 Tim 2:15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. 19Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

Milleniallists perhaps? Hellmongers with their immortal soul? Doctrines that destroy the faith of others are not Christian. It is the hallmark of wickedness. But hey, hell is like a sanctioned assassination from a secular nation. Is God a secular nation to you?

Consider the purpose of Christ
John 3:17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Where is hell in this formula. John in the whole synoptics never even hinted a hell, only eternal life if one accepts the Gift from God.

What is the Characteristic of Christian faith
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Romans 8:15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!"

How does hell demonstrate the Glorious Love of God? Hellmonger, fearmonger, nicolaitan - they all speak of something other than the blessings of a Divine Father. So when a hellmonger condemns those who are taught lessons of mercy and are firmly obedient in the Father's Love, are you obeying Jesus. When you compell the slaves of mercy to imagine all sorts of torture before God, are you preparing them for judgement? Your doctrine of hell when spoken defiles the lessons of Jesus and the idea of sonship.

So here is the blasphemy. Hell is filled with those that do not believe in hell. It is foundational in your mind. So those who obey hell have an image of hell imprinted in their mind. Torture, screaming, exquisite pain etc... But before God such thoughts are not acceptable. So those who believe would go to the lake of hell and those who don't believe go to the lake of hell. So in theory, everyone goes to hell! You are calling God's Creations absurd. A total catch-22. Sounds like Blasphemy of the Most High to me.

You have already disregarded Matthew 5:18.
What about James 2:11. Matt 15:19,
Are 2 Tim 2:15 applicable to hellmongers.
Was Jesus sent to show hell? Is hell supposed to give the Christian faith or fear? Show me the hell formula in John3:17 conform 1 John 4:18, Romans 8:15

I quote Jesus and you say it's "helmongering". Good luck on Judgment Day!

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

.

Your belief in the "everlasting fire", quoting Jesus, is not required for your residency therein.

I am in Christ Jesus the everlasting fire. As long as I am in Him I do not burn or consume away. Only those outside of God's Ark will "perish" (John 3:16).

Perhaps you should consider the Bible more carefully and historical Christianity, rather than paganized Christianity (Catholicity doctrinally speaking).

Try these resources:

State Of The Dead & Annihilation Hellfire Non SDA Quotes : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

What about these?

Doctrine - The Soul Sleepers - Chapter 4 The Major Seventeenth Century Advocates

Doctrine - Emmanuel Petavel Olliff - The Problem Of Immortality

Doctrine - Charles L Ives - The Bible Doctrine Of The Soul An Answer To The Question

Doctrine - Albert C. Johnson - Conditional Immortality

Doctrine - A Debate On The State Of The Dead - Nathaniel Field Vs Thomas P Connelly

Doctrine - Henry Grew (Baptist) - State Of The Dead &c Owned By Joseph Frisbie, With His Personal Markings

Stephen Bohr - Secrets Unsealed - State Of The Dead & Hellfire Sermons

Christian Mortalism From Tyndale To Milton By Norman T. Burns

Doctrine - William Tyndale - Tyndales Answer To Sir Thomas More

Doctrine - Wenham John - The Case For Conditional Immortality

Doctrine - Vladimir Baranozv - Sleep Of The Soul [18177565 Scrinium] “Angels In The Guise Of Saints” A Syrian Tradition In Constantinople

Doctrine - Life And Immortality By Basil Atkinson

Doctrine - Glenn A Peoples - Soul Sleep - Rethinking Hell Chapter 2

Doctrine - Dirk Krausmuller - Soul Sleep - [18177565 Scrinium] Christian Platonism And The Debate About Afterlife

Doctrine - Christopher M Date - Soul Sleep - 18. MJTM. 69 92 Date

Doctrine - Richard Whately - A View Of The Scripture Revelations Concerning A Future State

Doctrine - H H Dobney & John Milton - The Scripture Doctrine Of Future Punishment An Argument

Doctrine - George Storrs - An Inquiry Are The Wicked Immortal In Six Sermons Also Have The Dead Knowledge Which Is Prefixed An Extract On The Second Death By Archbishop Whately

SDA - D M Canright - A History Of The Doctrine Of The Soul Among All Races And Peoples, Ancient And Modern...; Carefully Brought Down To The Present Time

Doctrine - The State Of The Dead - John Milton (Paradise Lost)

Doctrine - F. Gavin - The Sleep Of The Soul In The Early Syriac Church

Doctrine - Bryan W. Ball - Sixteenth Century Continental Conditionalists

Doctrine - Aphrahat By J. Edward Walters - Sleep Of The Soul And Resurrection Of The Body

Hell & Mr Fudge - Edward Fudge

Doctrine - Death - LeRoy Edwin Froom - The Conditionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 02

Doctrine - Death - LeRoy Edwin Froom - The Conditionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 01

Secrets Unsealed - Stephen Bohr - Misunderstood Texts On The State Of The Dead : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

I think God sent the spirit or sould of Solomon to chew out Saul.

First of all it isn't "Solomon" in the text, it is "Samuel" in the text.

Secondly, it is by the "familiar spirit" that the witch divines, not God.

Thirdly, Saul went to enquire of the "familiar spirit" not God or even Samuel.

Fourthly, Saul sees nothing, and has to rely upon the woman being affected by the lying spirit.

Fifthly, the woman sees "elohiym" come, not nevi'im.

Sixthly, the chapter explicitly starts with stating that Samuel was dead and buried in Ramah.

Seventhly, God wasn't talking to Saul at all, neither by dreams, Urim/Thummim of the high priest or prophets.

Eighthly, the scene is not speaking of resurrection at all for no flesh and bones of anyone dead is witnessed.

Ninthly, Saul left the safety of the land of Israel and travelled into enemy territory under disguise.

Tenthly, that which the familiar (taking on characteristics of those whom are known) spirit says is a mixture of truth and lies.

Eleventhly, scripture explicitly states that Saul died for his sin of enquiring of the familiar spirit.

Twelthly, God does not use or even apprear to utilize withcraft for communication and outright condemned all who did practice it, even to death and loss of eternal life.

Thirteenthly,

Lev 19:31: "Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God."

Lev 20:6: "And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people."

Lev 20:27: "A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them."

Isa 29:4: "And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust."

Isa 8:19: "And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?"

Familiar spirits are lying devil's which masquerade as the known deceased.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

I quote Jesus and you say it's "helmongering". Good luck on Judgment Day!

You're preaching Moses but you don't obey Moses???
Umm, the quotes are from the New Testament of Jesus Christ. Matthew was An Apostle of Jesus Christ. The Gospel of Matthew is the testimony of Jesus Christ. This is kind of a question out of left field about Moses.

I don't preach Moses as the Great Commission is per Jesus's teaching not a Mosaic requirement. I am a Christian which means I obey Jesus. So I guess you are right - I don't obey Moses. Your insight is impeccable!

So if Jesus says He has fulfilled the Law, how do you conform your statement that Law is of no effect, useless, devoid of wisdom. Can I mark that you disregarding Matt 5:17? There are many verses that are denigrated when you deny the Old Testament.

I quote Jesus and you say it's "helmongering". Good luck on Judgment Day!
If I said "Your quotes are about as useful as teats on a bull" and you say "Transgender bulls are wonderful as my quotes", I am certain you have misunderstood my meaning. No you did not quote scripture properly. You are teaching a doctrine that is not expounded and explicitly supported in the Scriptures.
I will need all the luck I can get for Judgement Day. Thank you for the blessing,

Consider the blasphemy of gobblygook. Consider your statement
OP - Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!
Post #1,533 - "Then why does it differ from nearly every Christian Bible? Because you like it? Death NEVER means "cease to exist" in the Bible. Matthew 25:41 (NKJV) ..."

The original text was written in Greek and then translated. I hope you understand that the original words were not in english. So depending how you translate, it may produce different meaning. So let us translate a few verses to gobblygook and see what is the hellmongers view of the Scriptures.

The crux is that "death" is redefined by the hellmongers "Death NEVER means "cease to exist" in the Bible".

Let us replace death as hell-life. dead as hellbound. hades as hell1 sheol as hell2 gehenna as hell3
We all know what the terms approximately mean, so let us translate english to gobblygook.

2 Timothy 1:10 beomes "but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished hell-life and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,"

So you are saying Jesus abolished the torture chamber stuff but nothing more, as hell-life is immortal already. Are you denying Jesus brought immortality as well as life? Sounds kind of dodgy to me.

Hebrews 2:14 becomes "Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through hell-life He might render powerless him who had the power of hell-life, that is, the devil,"

So Jesus taken to hell for 3 days and vile things were done to him. You know that Jesus was the means by which all was made that includes the hell=life (death that is not death) and the devil. You know Jesus was the Perfect Adam. Immaculate. Sinless. But he was subject by a subordinate (all things were created for and by means of Jesus) creature, satan, who somehow got the keys of hell way back in past. Sounds like kind of weird pagan mish mash to me.

There are many verses with resurrection. You know what resurrection in gobblygook is - freedom from torture. Immortality and imperishability are extraneous things put forth by Jesus (in gobblygook)

Hmm... Weird and blasphemeous if you ask me. Since all sins against Jesus may be forgiven, I wonder what gobblygook may be saying about Him that Sent him. God is not so forgiving on foundational matters,

 

[TheLearner]

interesting discussion

 

[Phoneman-777]

Isaiah says "them"
who does context dictate "them" refers to?
those under the law or those who are not under the law?

Both. Anyone who speaks not according to the Bible by default speaks from a position of darkness.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Moses body did not decay in the way other men's bodies do. Deuteronomy 34:7

Which is why I believe the dispute was over whether it was hypocritical for God to grant a disobedient murderer life eternal, while condemning Satan and his associates to death. Rather than argue, God simply shut him up, seeing that Moses was a Just Man who sometimes fell, but arose, unlike the enemy who lost the ability to rise up through steadfast rebellion.

To say otherwise is an indictment of God's character as equitable and no respecter of persons.