Alcohol - a world wide phenomena

[oyster67]

I think you are 'gravely' mistaken:

1Cor 6:10: "Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Joel 1:5: "Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth."

But, it is written:

Ps 69:12: "They that sit in the gate speak against me; and I was the song of the drunkards."

Wine is obviously not the only source of drunkenness.

 

[oyster67]

Short answer, Yes. Nazarites still existed. Also some of those good things like grapes and grape juice sold at market was first 'blessed' by pagan idols, and some knew that. There are also other factors which are addressed in the linked study.

Really grasping at grapes today, aren't we.

 

[Cabrillo]

Wine is obviously not the only source of drunkenness.

It's a form of Idoltry in a sense. We tend to put things before God rather than putting God first. We can get drunk on Alcohol, dope, money, sex...

 

[Cabrillo]

Epidemic, really? Noah got drunk and cursed his son in Genesis 9. It's too late to sound the alarm now.

 

[oyster67]

Joel 1:5: "Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth."

Yes, wine can make you drunk. I think we've got that. Lots of things can be taken to excess. We can find many verses on gluttony also. Lets all stop eating then.

btw, Didn't you say that new wine was grape juice?

 

[Cabrillo]

Yes, wine can make you drunk. I think we've got that. Lots of things can be taken to excess. We can find many verses on gluttony also. Lets all stop eating then.

btw, Didn't you say that new wine was grape juice?

Remember CSM that the Disciples were accused of being drunk when they spoke in tongues?

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

Yes, wine can make you drunk. I think we've got that. Lots of things can be taken to excess. We can find many verses on gluttony also. Lets all stop eating then.

btw, Didn't you say that new wine was grape juice?

Read the text again, s-l-o-w-l-y:

Joel 1:5: "Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth."

It is in parallelism.

Joel 1:5:

"[01A] Awake,
[AA1] ye
[BB1] drunkards,
[CC1] and weep;
[CC2] and howl,
[AA2] all ye
[BB2] drinkers of wine,
[DD1] because of
[EE1] the new wine;
[DD2] for
[EE2] it is
[01B] cut off from your mouth."

The portions are equal and defining one another.

The reason that they 'sleep' (symbol of death) is because they drink alcoholic wine (naturally & spiritually). God tells them to awake and cry because they have no grape juice (new wine, the symbol of the pure life and doctrine of God, even Jesus Christ), for it was taken away from them because they loved not sobriety and purity and truth of the righteous life, but instead loved inebriation, intoxication, false doctrine and vain 'living'. If the good is rejected only evil remains, and if light rejected, only darkness.

John 12:35: "Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth."

Notice the parallelism.

The "drunkards" = "drinkers of wine (alcohol)". Any amount begins to undermine the entire wellbeing of the person, in heart (mind/judgment) and body. A drinker of wine (alcohol) in this text is automatically a drunkard by definition.

The "new wine" (juice of the grapes) is in stark contrast to the "wine" (alcohol).

I told you that lack of true study leads you to your faulty position. You read the text not to understand it, but to prove your a priori and mannerism of 'living'. It is what drunkards do
(naturally & spiritually).

 

[Cabrillo]

Read the text again, s-l-o-w-l-y:

Joel 1:5: "Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth."

It is in parallelism.

Joel 1:5:

"[01A] Awake,
[AA1] ye
[BB1] drunkards,
[CC1] and weep;
[CC2] and howl,
[AA2] all ye
[BB2] drinkers of wine,
[DD1] because of
[EE1] the new wine;
[DD2] for
[EE2] it is
[01B] cut off from your mouth."

The portions are equal and defining one another.

The reason that they 'sleep' (symbol of death) is because they drink alcoholic wine (naturally & spiritually). God tells them to awake and cry because they have no grape juice (new wine, the symbol of the pure life and doctrine of God, even Jesus Christ), for it was taken away from them because they loved not sobriety and purity and truth of the righteous life, but instead loved inebriation, intoxication, false doctrine and vain 'living'. If the good is rejected only evil remains, and if light rejected, only darkness.

John 12:35: "Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth."

Notice the parallelism.

The "drunkards" = "drinkers of wine (alcohol)". Any amount begins to undermine the entire wellbeing of the person, in heart (mind/judgment) and body. A drinker of wine (alcohol) in this text is automatically a drunkard by definition.

The "new wine" (juice of the grapes) is in stark contrast to the "wine" (alcohol).

I told you that lack of true study leads you to your faulty position. You read the text not to understand it, but to prove your a priori and mannerism of 'living'. It is what drunkards do
(naturally & spiritually).

I believe it's a metaphor. The new wine is salvation.

 

[Dino246]

Read the text again, s-l-o-w-l-y:

Joel 1:5: "Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth."

It is in parallelism.

Joel 1:5:

"[01A] Awake,
[AA1] ye
[BB1] drunkards,
[CC1] and weep;
[CC2] and howl,
[AA2] all ye
[BB2] drinkers of wine,
[DD1] because of
[EE1] the new wine;
[DD2] for
[EE2] it is
[01B] cut off from your mouth."

The portions are equal and defining one another.

The reason that they 'sleep' (symbol of death) is because they drink alcoholic wine (naturally & spiritually). God tells them to awake and cry because they have no grape juice (new wine, the symbol of the pure life and doctrine of God, even Jesus Christ), for it was taken away from them because they loved not sobriety and purity and truth of the righteous life, but instead loved inebriation, intoxication, false doctrine and vain 'living'. If the good is rejected only evil remains, and if light rejected, only darkness.

John 12:35: "Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth."

Notice the parallelism.

The "drunkards" = "drinkers of wine (alcohol)". Any amount begins to undermine the entire wellbeing of the person, in heart (mind/judgment) and body. A drinker of wine (alcohol) in this text is automatically a drunkard by definition.

The "new wine" (juice of the grapes) is in stark contrast to the "wine" (alcohol).

I told you that lack of true study leads you to your faulty position. You read the text not to understand it, but to prove your a priori and mannerism of 'living'. It is what drunkards do
(naturally & spiritually).

By ignoring the context of the verse, you have completely missed its meaning.

God was warning all Israel of coming destruction because of their sin. It is poetic language, but isn't employing metaphors or signs for the coming gospel of Christ. You have read much into the verse that doesn't belong there.

It's talking about literal wine... fermented grape juice. God is saying that the drunkards (not "drinkers of wine"!) that they are going to miss out on the next harvest because it will be destroyed by invaders. You are so fond of your conclusion that you seem to have forgotten how to study... or never learned properly in the first place.

 

[Cabrillo]

By ignoring the context of the verse, you have completely missed its meaning.

God was warning all Israel of coming destruction because of their sin. It is poetic language, but isn't employing metaphors or signs for the coming gospel of Christ. You have read much into the verse that doesn't belong there.

It's talking about literal wine... fermented grape juice. God is saying that the drunkards (not "drinkers of wine"!) that they are going to miss out on the next harvest because it will be destroyed by invaders. You are so fond of your conclusion that you seem to have forgotten how to study... or never learned properly in the first place.

Well, I was never an English major. I understand that the Bible is filled with metaphors, similes and parabels. I personally meditate on scriptures and seeking to understand the spiritual meanings of scriptures and apply them to the worlds of the flesh and the spirit. But I'm more Charismatic than literal. The Scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees didn't understand all of the scriptures either.

 

[Cabrillo]

Anyways, Drunkenness is a sin, just like homosexuality, stealing and lying. There is no debate. It's wrong.

I sort of consider it to be a warning that drunks can miss the rapture.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

I believe it's a metaphor. The new wine is salvation.

I did say that when I mentioned "Jesus Christ".

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

God was warning all Israel of coming destruction because of their sin.

That's what I said. What did you read?

 

[Cabrillo]

I did say that when I mentioned "Jesus Christ".

Where? I just logged on yesterday after 9 trips to the hospital. I was only responding to what I read today. I wasn't directed at you. Only the the subject; Acts 2:13 "These men are drunk with new wine."

 

[Cabrillo]

That's what I said. What did you read?

I think you were saying that the scripture only refers to drunkenness from wine. I've been drunk with greed, ambition and authority.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

Remember CSM that the Disciples were accused of being drunk when they spoke in tongues?

That is the very verse my study is based on. Did you read it yet? It's linked on the first page of this thread. Let me know please.

 

[oyster67]

God tells them to awake and cry because they have no grape juice

You can be kind of funny sometimes.

A drinker of wine (alcohol) in this text is automatically a drunkard by definition.

Really now?

I told you that lack of true study leads you to your faulty position.

Much study seems to have made Jack a dull boy.

 

[oyster67]

I did say that when I mentioned "Jesus Christ".

You said the new wine was grape juice. Jesus Christ is not grape juice. Try to get your ducks in a straight line please.

 

[oyster67]

That's what I said. What did you read?

Have you been drinking grape juice again?

 

[Dino246]

Have you been drinking grape juice again?

By his own argument, if he drinks grape juice at all, then he is a winebibber and a drunkard.