Alcohol - a world wide phenomena

[ChristianSubMissionary]

Saying that alcohol use is sinful and forbidden by scripture is substandard doctrine and clearly contradicts the word of God.

Where? What specific text or passage do you refer to as your evidential foundation? Provide that text or passage and let us carefully consider it together in it's context.

If not, all you have is an a prioric mantra that argues for itself based upon itself.

 

[John146]

Paul says he will not do that which will cause those who are weak in faith and conscience to stumble. Is it forbidden in that case? Why do you ask? It seems you wish to point to one scenario as if it were applicable in all scenarios. You refused to even admit that alcohol is good for some things according to Scripture, which goes against what you claimed, that nothing good could come from it.

Ok, the only good to come from it is to ease a man’s suffering when dying…

I work with teenagers. Often they will ask me if I drink alcohol. I have to be able to answer with a no because a yes may/will cause one to stumble.

 

[Dino246]

Ok, the only good to come from it is to ease a man’s suffering when dying…

I work with teenagers. Often they will ask me if I drink alcohol. I have to be able to answer with a no because a yes may/will cause one to stumble.

Personal convictions are exactly that: personal. Your reasons for not drinking don't apply to anyone else.

 

[Magenta]

Ok, the only good to come from it is to ease a man’s suffering when dying…

Where does the Bible say that? It is not what one of the verses I put
before your very eyes said. Once again you contradict Scripture.

I work with teenagers. Often they will ask me if I drink alcohol. I have to be able to answer with a no because a yes may/will cause one to stumble.

Yes, you've said, and I do commend you for that. Making it a sin
for anybody else on that basis is not supported by Scripture.

 

[oyster67]

Circular logic, based upon the unproven a priori that your position on the topic is correct. Your position is not correct as I have shown and am showing. Even your own definition of "winebibber" is personally subjective, and not even based in scripture. Your definition is self justifying, a rubber ruler, latex theologically. It will stretch or shrink to whatever definition you need it to be.

I'm pretty sure that they were not accusing Jesus of drinking your grape juice.

 

[oyster67]

Should one drink alcohol if it causes someone to stumble? Is it forbidden in this case?

The best way to answer this question is by citing the appropriate Scripture...

Romans
14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence.
14:21 [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
14:22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

Some probably suppose that this is talking about grape juice as well?

 

[oyster67]

Who's trying to be funny?

I can't help the way I look.

 

[oyster67]

Accepted. No worries. I try to be as serious as possible on this and other subjects. I personally think lives are at stake, as well the right understanding of God's character.

A man's salvation does not depend upon his beliefs about wine. Jesus said He Himself would be drinking wine in His kingdom...

Matthew 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

 

[tourist]

Accepted. No worries. I try to be as serious as possible on this and other subjects. I personally think lives are at stake, as well the right understanding of God's character.

The way I look at it each one of us on this site is unique and real. It is a family.

Occasionally posting something that I consider amusing is part of the fellowship that I enjoy. I have written many posts since I have been a member and I have made it a point to let others see me for who I really am and I look for the same for others to occasionally share a little bit about themself.

Once you know who the players, who they are and what they are about, you have a better idea where they are coming from in a particular post. I really enjoy interacting with the peeps. It's what I do.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

A man's salvation does not depend upon his beliefs about wine.

I think you are 'gravely' mistaken:

1Cor 6:10: "Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Joel 1:5: "Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth."

But, it is written:

Ps 69:12: "They that sit in the gate speak against me; and I was the song of the drunkards."

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

The best way to answer this question is by citing the appropriate Scripture...

Romans
14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence.
14:21 [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
14:22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

Some probably suppose that this is talking about grape juice as well?

Short answer, Yes. Nazarites still existed. Also some of those good things like grapes and grape juice sold at market was first 'blessed' by pagan idols, and some knew that. There are also other factors which are addressed in the linked study.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

I'm pretty sure that they were not accusing Jesus of drinking your grape juice.

The Pharisees falsely accused Jesus of drinking alcohol, because he was around a lot of sinners.

The Pharisees falsely accused Jesus of many things which weren't true:

https://archive.org/download/john-5...esus 'Broke' The Sabbath - Nutshell Image.png

Left hand column.

 

[Magenta]

Left hand column.

That is virtually impossible to read...

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

Personal convictions are exactly that: personal. Your reasons for not drinking don't apply to anyone else.

Which is the very reason that one's position must be firmly based upon the texts of scripture, God's thoughts on the matter and not our own. This is the reason for the study I linked with all the texts evidenced.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

That is virtually impossible to read...

Click picture or link, zoom in.

 

[Magenta]

Click picture or link, zoom in.

I did click it... the pic itself does not zoom in its own window.

And zooming as is on this page? The text is too blurry to read...

 

[Cabrillo]

The Pharisees falsely accused Jesus of drinking alcohol, because he was around a lot of sinners.

The Pharisees falsely accused Jesus of many things which weren't true:

https://archive.org/download/john-5-vs-18-jesus-broke-the-sabbath-nutshell-image/John 5 vs 18 Jesus 'Broke' The Sabbath - Nutshell Image.png

Left hand column.

Jesus lived in Nazareth. It was uncustomary for Nazarines to drink fermented wine. I doubt that the Lord has respect for the town and people. He would not have violated the custom. Remember, Daniel 6:4 & Luke 23:4, No fault was found in him.

 

[Dino246]

Which is the very reason that one's position must be firmly based upon the texts of scripture, God's thoughts on the matter and not our own.

As mine is.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus lived in Nazareth. It was uncustomary for Nazarines to drink fermented wine. I doubt that the Lord has respect for the town and people. He would not have violated the custom. Remember, Daniel 6:4 & Luke 23:4, No fault was found in him.

The Nazarite vow did not apply to people just because they lived in Nazareth...

It was a vow taken by those who wanted to dedicate themselves to the Lord for a time.

The requirements of the Nazarite vow are found primary in the Old Testament
passages of Numbers 6:1-21, Judges 13:5-7 & 16:17, plus Amos 2:11-12.

 

[Dino246]

Jesus lived in Nazareth. It was uncustomary for Nazarines to drink fermented wine. I doubt that the Lord has respect for the town and people. He would not have violated the custom. Remember, Daniel 6:4 & Luke 23:4, No fault was found in him.

Are you confusing Nazarenes (residents of Nazareth) with Nazirites (partakers of a particular OT vow)? They aren't the same thing at all.