Faith Comes By Hearing, But Obedience By Fear!

[Carry_Your_Name]

I’m not following what youre saying or how it relates sorry

I’m saying we have to do this one day and to believe is meant to straighten up our lives and bring us to repentance

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there is the fear of God in acknowledging the truth Paul wrote to the church there as he did in nearly every epistle.

mercy and truth , leads to the fear of God and repentance leaving an obedient person. We have to acknowledge the truth of judgement according to our deeds so we will repent and live right

I'm talking about a RELATIONSHIP with God. One purpose in the original design of earthly marriage and romantic relationships is to offer you a foretaste of this intimate relationship, not just for procreation in the evolutionist view or traditional catholic view. Back in the Garden of Eden, Adam was the prototype of Christ, and Eve was the prototype of the Church, as she was called "mother of all nations", and when "two become one flesh", the relationship was consummated. That's a prophetic aspect. Then I just gave you an illustration of how most Laodicean Christians today are maintaining such a relationship.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'm talking about a RELATIONSHIP with God. One purpose in the original design of earthly marriage and romantic relationships is to offer you a foretaste of this intimate relationship, not just for procreation in the evolutionist view or traditional catholic view. Back in the Garden of Eden, Adam was the prototype of Christ, and Eve was the prototype of the Church, as she was called "mother of all nations", and when "two become one flesh", the relationship was consummated. That's a prophetic aspect. Then I just gave you an illustration of how most Laodicean Christians today are maintaining such a relationship.

ok , it must have went over my head I appreciate the clarification though. Honestly I couldn’t tell you what most believe or how their relationship with Jesus is it’s all I can do to do my best to learn from the lord and apply it to my life .

remember that some of us are just waking up from a slumber others have been learning to walk a long time , others are running the race as to win the prize because we’re maturing. But babes as well as grown ups belong to the lord and he is able to make them all and us stand

“Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

…But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:4, 10

we’re all at different stages so we may not be able to understand everyone’s heart d status in Christ , but he can because he knows our secrets and knowledge the hidden things we sometimes forget

God bless

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

ok , it must have went over my head I appreciate the clarification though. Honestly I couldn’t tell you what most believe or how their relationship with Jesus is it’s all I can do to do my best to learn from the lord and apply it to my life .

remember that some of us are just waking up from a slumber others have been learning to walk a long time , others are running the race as to win the prize because we’re maturing. But babes as well as grown ups belong to the lord and he is able to make them all and us stand

“Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

…But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:4, 10

we’re all at different stages so we may not be able to understand everyone’s heart d status in Christ , but he can because he knows our secrets and knowledge the hidden things we sometimes forget

God bless

What most believe is called "Moralistic Therapeutic Deism". It's "Moralistic" through virtue signaling, "Therapeutic" through life coaching, and "Deistic" through worship session. In their world view, life is a movie, they're the hero, every day in LARPing (live action role play), everyone else is a supporting character, and the Holy Trinity is the director, producer and screenwriter.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What most believe is called "Moralistic Therapeutic Deism". It's "Moralistic" through virtue signaling, "Therapeutic" through life coaching, and "Deistic" through worship session. In their world view, life is a movie, they're the hero, every day in LARPing (live action role play), everyone else is a supporting character, and the Holy Trinity is the director, producer and screenwriter.

I think I see what your saying and it could be brother. I only know what I myself believe and I’m still learning every day and doing my best for Jesus according to what I’m learning.

i understand as I do , my faith grows and my life gets immensely better and it shows in my actions , not because I’m anything but because my faith is growing and manifesting from my heart by his word working in my heart and Will to bring me to a better place

In this forum I’ve come to accept a lot of folks as faithful christians even when we don’t see eye to eye because first and foremost we’ve all come to discuss his word because we believe in him for our salvation

I’ve given up on proper denomination or thinking I’ve got it all worked out honestly just about every day I come here someone says something that I find to be wise and scriptural my sound that I didn’t realize before . Again that’s even when I don’t agree completely with them

your one of those folks I find good value in many things you share here I do appreciate folks who share their beliefs of scripture and thier experiences in the lord and find it edifying

I’m no professional but more like a student who hopes to be like his teacher one day so you could be right , I try to keep my own beliefs and steps in line and that’s a task in itself at least for me. But I’ve found that in doing so I’m a better person to others who either deserve or don’t deserve mercy and I can only control my own actions and beliefs and share them openly as others do here

sorry I got off track I appreciate the conversation though always like to read your posts and consider them God bless

 

[Blik]

not sure i agree that fear is the only path to obedience

Fear is NOT the only path to obedience, but as BfoTan is pointing out, fear of the power of the Lord is involved. Fear of death leads us to Christ, but we obey out of the love we find in Christ.

 

[ResidentAlien]

not sure i agree that fear is the only path to obedience

It's not the only path but it's part of it. If you don't agree you don't disagree with me but with God.

 

[Magenta]

In acknowledging Who God is, we recognize His absolute power and sovereignty.
To oppose such would be sheer folly... and yet that is what any non-believer does.
God is long suffering, patient, loving, merciful, and just, yet He is maligned by those
who do not know Him; He will not tolerate their defiance and rebellion forever.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Such is a major step for
many in their journey of coming to believe in their heart, of bending their knee, and
confessing with their mouth. God reveals Himself to those who diligently seek. The
transformation of the natural man to the spiritual is not without shock to a system
that has resisted such knowledge and violated His principles over a lifetime. Attending
this revelation comes the fear of knowing with certainty that they are unworthy of His
mercy... that if He were truly the monster many make Him out to be, they would have
no hope whatsoever of withstanding what they deserve... yet by His grace are spared.

 

[CharliRenee]

Could obedience also come from love and honor given to our Lord?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Could obedience also come from love and honor given to our Lord?

Absolutely. Perfect love casts out fear.

 

[ResidentAlien]

"Behold then the kindness and severity of God: upon those that fell, severity; but upon you, kindness, if you continue in His kindness."—Romans 11:22

We have nothing to fear from God if we remain in Christ; however, we must always remember His severity lest we think we can pull one over on Him.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God!"—Hebrews 10:31

 

[posthuman]

It's not the only path but it's part of it. If you don't agree you don't disagree with me but with God.

i don't think it is the whole path, but part of the way

 

[studentoftheword]

I think out of the fear comes a reverence. We begin to obey because we love our God and want to do what is pleasing.

Well you have come the closes to what Fear of the Lord is ------Fear is used both in the negative and positive in Scripture -----and when it comes to fear of the Lord it is used in the positive -----

So --just to clarify -------you said out of Fear comes reverence -------but the Word fear in the positive sense means -----Reverence ---sense of awe ----respect -----

Strong's Concordance
phobos:
Usage: (a) fear, terror, alarm, (b) the object or cause of fear, (c) reverence, respect ,sense of awe
reverence, respect (for authority, rank, dignity):

Fear (5401 /phóbos) is commonly used in Scripture – sometimes positively (in relation to God) but more often negatively of withdrawing from the Lord (His will).

 

[Magenta]

i don't think it is the whole path, but part of the way

As Scripture says, and you reiterated: the beginning of wisdom. Not the end

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It's not the only path but it's part of it. If you don't agree you don't disagree with me but with God.

it’s vital

“The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭36:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭1:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their feet are swift to shed blood: There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:12, 15, 18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭2:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Aerials1978]

Well you have come the closes to what Fear of the Lord is ------Fear is used both in the negative and positive in Scripture -----and when it comes to fear of the Lord it is used in the positive -----

So --just to clarify -------you said out of Fear comes reverence -------but the Word fear in the positive sense means -----Reverence ---sense of awe ----respect -----

Strong's Concordance
phobos:
Usage: (a) fear, terror, alarm, (b) the object or cause of fear, (c) reverence, respect ,sense of awe
reverence, respect (for authority, rank, dignity):

Fear (5401 /phóbos) is commonly used in Scripture – sometimes positively (in relation to God) but more often negatively of withdrawing from the Lord (His will).

You make a good point.

 

[BroTan]

“By mercy and truth iniquity is purged:

and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭16:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we believe this and learn the terror of the lord We will repent

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬



Fear as we know it in the world isn’t good but the fear of God is wise for the sinner to take to heart and believe the truth of judgement

obedience comes from letting the Gospel do this

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

these days we hear of no accountability for our actions which allows us to continue on unchanged without repentance we’re being deceived subtly

Excellency verses and just to add a little to it in Hebrews 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

And to this day the knowledge of God is growing to those who will hear, because there are those who will not hear to this day.

27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

People need to know the other side of the coin, because those who believe and understand that fiery indignation will know that there's a side of God we must not cross, and that's willfull sinning!

 

[BroTan]

Jesus paid for the PENALTY of sin on the cross. From there on, we who have ears to hear will naturally and joyfully obey Him. No matter what circumstances, we fear NO MORE, for we know that our rewards await in the next life. All the happiness and contentment in carefree childhood, marriage life, church service, success in career and everything else are just a foretaste of the Kingdom.

Well, let's take a look and see what is sin. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

So let's go far into the future in Isaiah 66: 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Let's go also in 2 John 1: This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

So we know that the commandments from the beginning God gave Moses all the way down to our time (Exodus 20 1-17). We also know that Jesus kept these commandments and broke them down to two greatest Commandments, which we can also read in the Old Testament written by Moses. So those who transgress is those who will not follow these commandments which are ordain to life. That is the foundation of the doctrine of Christ. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Excellency verses and just to add a little to it in Hebrews 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

And to this day the knowledge of God is growing to those who will hear, because there are those who will not hear to this day.

27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

People need to know the other side of the coin, because those who believe and understand that fiery indignation will know that there's a side of God we must not cross, and that's willfull sinning!

yeah I agree that’s where the fear comes in that makes us straighten up our ways but also this needs to be included with it for times we fail

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭

Here’s a balance between the two. it’s not either or it’s both aspects we need to come to the truth that we aren’t sinners and aren’t excused to keep sinning , but when we fail and we all do we need to know he will forgive us if we don’t pretend we didn’t sin and we repent.

it’s grace plus truth that leads us home . Willful sin is when we’re sinning knowing what we’re doing and won’t recognize it because we love sin more than God , we have to understand what we’re doing is sin and persist for it to be willful

in other words if we pretend we aren’t sinning while we know we are , that’s willful sin, if we acknowledge our sins and repent we are showing it’s not willful it’s just that we haven’t reached freedom yet.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Well, let's take a look and see what is sin. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

So let's go far into the future in Isaiah 66: 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Let's go also in 2 John 1: This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

So we know that the commandments from the beginning God gave Moses all the way down to our time (Exodus 20 1-17). We also know that Jesus kept these commandments and broke them down to two greatest Commandments, which we can also read in the Old Testament written by Moses. So those who transgress is those who will not follow these commandments which are ordain to life. That is the foundation of the doctrine of Christ. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

Pastor Brandon called that "180-ism", whatever God instituted, do the exact opposite; whatever God said NOT to do, then that's exactly what to do - for fun.

 

[oyster67]

God knows with out fear, people will not obey him.

God wants to be obeyed out of love, not fear.

1 John
4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.