Do SDA believe Michael is God?

[ChristianSubMissionary]

I think so.

You think so?

This is Christianity basics:

1 Corinthians 15:

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

 

[Nehemiah6]

That is an assumption not supported by the definition of the words (mal'ak, aggelos, angel), neither by the text of scripture itself.

And what you have just said is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. Now if you wish to worship an angel, feel free to do so. But do not try to put a spin on the truth (which you probably detest).

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

Michael is BARELY mentioned in the NT.

How many times is "Immanuel" in the OT and how many times is "Emmanuel" in the NT? The number of times in plethora or scarcity does not validate or invalidate a teaching. I do hope that you can begin to see the unbalance of your measuring scales.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

Jesus is my Savior, not Michael!

Consider your question in regards saviour:

Dan 12:1: "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

Revelation 12:

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

What is a synonym in scripture for delivered?

2Sam 19:9: "And all the people were at strife throughout all the tribes of Israel, saying, The king saved us out of the hand of our enemies, and he delivered us out of the hand of the Philistines; and now he is fled out of the land for Absalom."

etc.

Do you see who the anointed is in Revelation 12 who brought salvation?

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

And what you have just said is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE.

How so? All I did was cite in Hebrew, translit. Hebrew and so called lxx Greek the text of Malachi 3:1 which refers to Jesus as mal'ak and aggelos. Do you disagree with that? If so, why? What is your evidence to support your disagreement if so?

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

Yes, all because in Dan. 12:1 it says “Michael shall rise.”

Dan 12:1: "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

Luk 13:25: "When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:"

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Dan 12:1: "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

Luk 13:25: "When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:"

That’s not the same. In Rev. 12, Jesus is the child, Michael is the archangel.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

That’s not the same. In Rev. 12, Jesus is the child, Michael is the archangel.

Have you studied the structure of Revelation 12?

Is the word "dragon" a symbolic name? If so, for who?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Have you studied the structure of Revelation 12?

Is the word "dragon" a symbolic name? If so, for who?

An archangel is an angel, a created being, not Jesus. In Rev. 12 Jesus was caught up to God as a child, how come that he suddenly becomes a general and casts out Satan? This only creates confusion.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

.

... In Rev. 12 Jesus was caught up to God as a child, how come that he suddenly becomes a general and casts out Satan? This only creates confusion.

This may help you understand Rev 12 - https://archive.org/details/revelation-12-the-great-controversy

https://archive.org/details/michael-the-archangel-07-revelation-12-an-unbreakable-chiastic-structure

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

.

This may help you understand Rev 12 - https://archive.org/details/revelation-12-the-great-controversy

https://archive.org/details/michael-the-archangel-07-revelation-12-an-unbreakable-chiastic-structure

Thanks, but not interested. As soon as I spot the title "the-great-controversy" I know where you come from.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

Thanks, but not interested. As soon as I spot the title "the-great-controversy" I know where you come from.

I do too:

Jer 25:31: "A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD."

Hos 4:1: "Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land."

Hos 12:2: "The LORD hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him."

Mic 6:2: "Hear ye, O mountains, the LORD'S controversy, and ye strong foundations of the earth: for the LORD hath a controversy with his people, and he will plead with Israel."

Dan 9:26: "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

Rev 12:7: "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

Thanks, but not interested.

Isa 6:10: "Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed."

Mat 13:15: "For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

Acts 28:27: "For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

Zech 7:11: "But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear."

Acts 7:57: "Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,"

Hos 4:6: "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

 

[Runningman]

Really? Have you read the Old Testament? Have you read the New?

Came off as a little bit crass, but those with a genuine truth-seekers heart can look past the unrefined lack of sensitivity and see directly to the truth like I can. I agree that what you said is a valid question.

I firmly believe in Hebrews 5:12

12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat

Never lose that student's mindset, never stop learning, never believe you have learned it all because you read the Bible from cover to cover more than once. Anyone can read the Bible cover to cover, but few can truly understand it, even when they have the Holy Spirit. Case in point is that there are thousands of Christian denominations that contradict each other and those people have the Holy Spirit too.

 

[TMS]

An archangel is an angel, a created being, not Jesus. In Rev. 12 Jesus was caught up to God as a child, how come that he suddenly becomes a general and casts out Satan? This only creates confusion.

Jesus can be whatever He wants to be. He created all things and by Him all things exist.
He choose to become a human being and was still God. So why can't He be a powerful Angel named Michael when it is appropriate?

Jesus is God and the fact that He is actively doing things to save individuals and the world as an Angel reveals His love.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Jesus can be whatever He wants to be. He created all things and by Him all things exist.
He choose to become a human being and was still God. So why can't He be a powerful Angel named Michael when it is appropriate?

Jesus is God and the fact that He is actively doing things to save individuals and the world as an Angel reveals His love.

No He can't. He's not an angel, He's the LORD of angels. Demoting Him to an angel is blasphemous.

 

[Journeyman]

I heard one guy say archangel means captain of angels. Of course we know our Lord Jesus isn't a created being, but is over all the angels.

 

[TheLearner]

there may not be any here or maybe not willing to say it given the nature of this forum

They are here in Lazzerius and the Richman parable thread.

 

[TheLearner]

Not sure where you are going brother.

I’m not sure you noticed a post awhile back about how God set his angel over the ot law when they worshipped the calf at Sinai ?

later in prophecy you see that Joshua was standing before the angel
Of the lord and not the lord himself who was foretold to come later.

the ot was mediated by angels , the New Testament is God manifest in man and speaking To us himself in Jesus. There’s no angel mediating the word to Moses and then Moses to the priests and priests to the people but he’s speaking it himself

Jesus is not an angel of any kind , He is the Lord God who commands the angels and who created them and us.

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s what the gospel teaches us about Jesus Christ. It’s the gospel that preached God was manifest in the flesh preached to all the world , who we must believe on , and who was received into glory.



“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

…He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-4, 10-13, 16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the angels are less than Jesus as the ots
Mediation is less than the new. He commands angels and they worship him the true God and eternal Life the ot was mostly the angels speaking for and working Gods Will

 

[Pilgrimshope]

They are here in Lazzerius and the Richman parable thread.

yes I think I remember a post awhile ago announcing specifically they were sda and wanting to discuss thier thoughts and beliefs. I think it was a month or so ago. And I think they came under a lot of Christian mortar fire lol

I try to avoid denominational divisions I myself believe which denomination we announce isn’t important but it’s what the individual believes. I think there will be many from several denominations who enter the kingdom , because there was never meant to be denominations and divisions to begin with

ultimately it comes down to whether one receives the gospel in faith or rejects the gospel and seeks to find another way to be saved.