An Uncomfortable Thread

[p_rehbein]

(excerpt) (extreme example)

Authorities say a man shot and killed his three daughters, their chaperone and himself during a supervised visit with the girls at a church in Sacramento, California

(here)

Man kills 3 daughters, 1 other, himself at California ...

(excerpt)

Troy Police said a chaotic scene unfolded at a condominium complex when a man shot and killed his daughter and then shot his wife, until ulimately turning the gun on himself.

(here)

News about Man Kills Wife, Himself


Yes, these are extreme and very sad examples of domestic abuse/violence, however, they are FAR from rare events in our Country. Given this, I want to explore what Role the Church should have in dealing with this horrible reality in our Communities/Schools/and even Churches.

All Congregations that I am aware of have some sort of "outreach" program regardless of their size or financial impact on the surrounding Community of the Congregation. Many even have International Mission Programs where they sponsor Missionaries to Foreign Countries around the world.

Many have mens/womens/and childrens Programs for the Members of their Congregation. All of these are good Programs, and greatly assist in edification of the Church IMO.

What I am wondering is: How many Congregations (regardless of Denomination or Group or Affiliation) have Programs that address and deal with the problem of Domestic Abuse/Violence? I do not know of any that attempt to prevent domestic abuse/violence, but I do know of a couple that have Members that work with the victims after the crime has been committed. The couple I know of have a very limited budget to support their efforts, but, even so, they do have a positive result.

When I read of the amount of financial wealth various Congregations/Denominations/Groups pour into Missions/Building Funds/Worship Enhancement Programs (music/video/etc.), I wonder how much these are pouring into the Prevention and or Recovery Assistance of Domestic Violence victims?

Is this a matter of prioritizing the problem of Domestic Violence? Or is it a desire to "kinda sweep it all under the rug" thought process?

F.Y.I.

(excerpt)

Despite the growing tendencies of the number of domestic violence cases, the study authors noted that the number of started criminal cases against perpetrators is declining. Last year, prosecutors led investigation in 866 criminal cases, with over 100 less than in 2019, when 969 criminal cases were initiated. This trend is conditioned by the legislative amendments made in 2016, including inclusion in the Contravention Code of a new article stipulating that “abuse or other violent acts committed by a family member against another family member, which caused insignificant harm to corporal integrity, shall be sanctioned by unpaid community work from 40 to 60 hours or by arrest from 7 to 15 days.”

(here)

Number of domestic violence cases, reported to and ...

In my opinion, every Congregation across America, and the World, should be fully committed to addressing the issue of Domestic Violence within their Congregation AND their Community. Do we NOT have the duty to do this? Does Scripture NOT charge us to support and defend those being abused?

What Does The Bible Say About Child Protection?

January 30, 2022 by Reymond

Protection for children is essential. God is our defender against both trouble and enemies, and we must do everything we can to protect our kids from harm done by those who seek his peace and love. In addition to helping to protect children, some of us are called forward by God to become advocates or to become professionals in child-protection programs.

(here)

What Does The Bible Say About Child Protection? – Children ...

Every time I see one of these incidents reported in the News, I am sickened in my body and spirit. My heart aches that such things are a COMMON EVENT within our Society. And not uncommon among the various Congregations across our Nation.

Why is it that the CHURCH LEADERSHIP appears to place little importance on Domestic Violence in their Congregations/Denominations/Groups?

 

[p_rehbein]

........well, guess I got my answer........sadly

 

[Pilgrimshope]

(excerpt) (extreme example)

Authorities say a man shot and killed his three daughters, their chaperone and himself during a supervised visit with the girls at a church in Sacramento, California

(here)

Man kills 3 daughters, 1 other, himself at California ...

(excerpt)

Troy Police said a chaotic scene unfolded at a condominium complex when a man shot and killed his daughter and then shot his wife, until ulimately turning the gun on himself.

(here)

News about Man Kills Wife, Himself


Yes, these are extreme and very sad examples of domestic abuse/violence, however, they are FAR from rare events in our Country. Given this, I want to explore what Role the Church should have in dealing with this horrible reality in our Communities/Schools/and even Churches.

All Congregations that I am aware of have some sort of "outreach" program regardless of their size or financial impact on the surrounding Community of the Congregation. Many even have International Mission Programs where they sponsor Missionaries to Foreign Countries around the world.

Many have mens/womens/and childrens Programs for the Members of their Congregation. All of these are good Programs, and greatly assist in edification of the Church IMO.

What I am wondering is: How many Congregations (regardless of Denomination or Group or Affiliation) have Programs that address and deal with the problem of Domestic Abuse/Violence? I do not know of any that attempt to prevent domestic abuse/violence, but I do know of a couple that have Members that work with the victims after the crime has been committed. The couple I know of have a very limited budget to support their efforts, but, even so, they do have a positive result.

When I read of the amount of financial wealth various Congregations/Denominations/Groups pour into Missions/Building Funds/Worship Enhancement Programs (music/video/etc.), I wonder how much these are pouring into the Prevention and or Recovery Assistance of Domestic Violence victims?

Is this a matter of prioritizing the problem of Domestic Violence? Or is it a desire to "kinda sweep it all under the rug" thought process?

F.Y.I.

(excerpt)

Despite the growing tendencies of the number of domestic violence cases, the study authors noted that the number of started criminal cases against perpetrators is declining. Last year, prosecutors led investigation in 866 criminal cases, with over 100 less than in 2019, when 969 criminal cases were initiated. This trend is conditioned by the legislative amendments made in 2016, including inclusion in the Contravention Code of a new article stipulating that “abuse or other violent acts committed by a family member against another family member, which caused insignificant harm to corporal integrity, shall be sanctioned by unpaid community work from 40 to 60 hours or by arrest from 7 to 15 days.”

(here)

Number of domestic violence cases, reported to and ...

In my opinion, every Congregation across America, and the World, should be fully committed to addressing the issue of Domestic Violence within their Congregation AND their Community. Do we NOT have the duty to do this? Does Scripture NOT charge us to support and defend those being abused?

What Does The Bible Say About Child Protection?

January 30, 2022 by Reymond

Protection for children is essential. God is our defender against both trouble and enemies, and we must do everything we can to protect our kids from harm done by those who seek his peace and love. In addition to helping to protect children, some of us are called forward by God to become advocates or to become professionals in child-protection programs.

(here)

What Does The Bible Say About Child Protection? – Children ...

Every time I see one of these incidents reported in the News, I am sickened in my body and spirit. My heart aches that such things are a COMMON EVENT within our Society. And not uncommon among the various Congregations across our Nation.

Why is it that the CHURCH LEADERSHIP appears to place little importance on Domestic Violence in their Congregations/Denominations/Groups?

One part of this regarding children and abuse . I believe Jesus said that to use who harm children are doing it in the sight of the angels who witness it to God and says it’s better for a man to have a millstone tied around his neck and cast into the see than to harm
The purity and faith of little ones

I think the answer is to confront the issues and teach people that they are accountable to God for their deeds wrought against others.

Im Speaking of within the church when we have this idea that we aren’t accountable for what we do it allows us to make excuses for what we do and how we treat others including spouses and children really everyone but specifically pertaining to this post

when we look the other way and always are talking about how we just can’t change and we’re never going to have to answer for our deeds it gives us room to abuse people in many many ways and then insist we have no choice or responsibility and well
Never be held accountable either because of “ grace , grace”

if we stuck to the truth of the gospel no one would abuse others who believed the world is always going to be abusing others but in the church if we hear and share the truth we simply won’t be able to excuse our selves and others bad behavior whatever it may be

if we believe the truth it’s hard to keep doing those things whatever they might be but when we reject the truth of judgement for our deeds and also careless words were making allowance for ourselves “ It’s not my fault it’s how I was raised “ “ “It’s the devil who makes me sin “ or worst of all “ it’s Gods Will where we do good or evil because we have no free Will or choice in what we do “

the true gospel is a powerful effective thing and has the power to deliver both the abused and the abuser into a place of Love and mercy and forgiveness

we can’t look away for sure and need to call It out shine the true light on the situation and pray

just my thoughts on a bit of what you wrote hope it’s helpful

 

[Unw0rthyS3rvant]

This behaviour has been SECRET for sooooo many generations.
Beatings,sexual abuse, hunger, heating / cooling turned off, improper clothing ECT are very rampant in today's society as in yesterday's society.

The church is supposed to be a hospital for the sick ( sin or body ),food source for the hungry,shelter for the homeless,behaviour modifier for prisoners/ gangs ECT........

How we are FAILING OUR GOD ,as a whole or group.

I know some congregations have outreach but it is constructed like the world system...proof of ECT ECT ,so many won't go for embarrassment sake!

 

[Unw0rthyS3rvant]

One part of this regarding children and abuse . I believe Jesus said that to use who harm children are doing it in the sight of the angels who witness it to God and says it’s better for a man to have a millstone tied around his neck and cast into the see than to harm
The purity and faith of little ones

I think the answer is to confront the issues and teach people that they are accountable to God for their deeds wrought against others.

Im Speaking of within the church when we have this idea that we aren’t accountable for what we do it allows us to make excuses for what we do and how we treat others including spouses and children really everyone but specifically pertaining to this post

when we look the other way and always are talking about how we just can’t change and we’re never going to have to answer for our deeds it gives us room to abuse people in many many ways and then insist we have no choice or responsibility and well
Never be held accountable either because of “ grace , grace”

if we stuck to the truth of the gospel no one would abuse others who believed the world is always going to be abusing others but in the church if we hear and share the truth we simply won’t be able to excuse our selves and others bad behavior whatever it may be

if we believe the truth it’s hard to keep doing those things whatever they might be but when we reject the truth of judgement for our deeds and also careless words were making allowance for ourselves “ It’s not my fault it’s how I was raised “ “ “It’s the devil who makes me sin “ or worst of all “ it’s Gods Will where we do good or evil because we have no free Will or choice in what we do “

the true gospel is a powerful effective thing and has the power to deliver both the abused and the abuser into a place of Love and mercy and forgiveness

we can’t look away for sure and need to call It out shine the true light on the situation and pray

just my thoughts on a bit of what you wrote hope it’s helpful

🥇

 

[p_rehbein]

I agree that this subject has been taboo to speak of in the Church for far too long. IMO, we seriously need to begin to address this subject, and bring it to the forefront of our Programs to assist the Congregation and the Community around us.

Why does the Church not bring this practice of abuse into the "light?" Who in the Church could condone such actions by Members of the Congregation, or the Community at large?

So many Scriptures speak of this in various ways IMO.

Pligrmis.... mentioned one, and the Scripture tells us why.

Matthew, Chapter 18:

3) And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4) Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5) And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

6) But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

(as well)

1 Timothy, Chapter 5:

8) But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

There are many more also.

 

[p_rehbein]

Are ONLY TWO Members willing to recognize and discuss this issue? SERIOUSLY?

Well, I promise you one thing: One day the Church will answer to God for not being far more proactive about this issue!

MARANATHA!

 

[Beckie]

Domestic Violence? Most takes place in the womb. And the Churches are way to silent of the subject. How can we as a nation not expect violence when human life is treated as disposable?

 

[p_rehbein]

Sadly, true, Beckie.

But, you would think that Domestic Violence would not be so POLITICALLY CHARGED as Abortions, right?

I mean, goodness.........

 

[Beckie]

Sadly, true, Beckie.

But, you would think that Domestic Violence would not be so POLITICALLY CHARGED as Abortions, right?

I mean, goodness.........

Neither should be political they are criminal .

 

[p_rehbein]

and neither should be ignored by the Church IMO

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree that this subject has been taboo to speak of in the Church for far too long. IMO, we seriously need to begin to address this subject, and bring it to the forefront of our Programs to assist the Congregation and the Community around us.

Why does the Church not bring this practice of abuse into the "light?" Who in the Church could condone such actions by Members of the Congregation, or the Community at large?

So many Scriptures speak of this in various ways IMO.

Pligrmis.... mentioned one, and the Scripture tells us why.

Matthew, Chapter 18:

3) And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4) Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5) And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

6) But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

(as well)

1 Timothy, Chapter 5:

8) But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

There are many more also.

“Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them. Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord. Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to abuse is not love it is the opposite

“So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

(because they are one like Christ and the church )

…Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:28, 33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Everyone has thier roles in the family unit often mothers abuse thier children and in rare cases thier husbands also

abuse from anyone isn’t right the answer for us is to believe the gospel and let it heal the scars and hate and violence and mistreatment inside us towards others

abuse will never be fruitful it will never be love if we have to force the other person to do our Will or submit to us . It will only create bad issues later and cause breaks in the relationship

it’s not Gods Will to abuse or meotrest anyone especially as a man , those entrusted to us by God to protect , raise up , care for and provide for children should be our glory , and spouses should be our partners.

“Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise ) That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Aerials1978]

Are ONLY TWO Members willing to recognize and discuss this issue? SERIOUSLY?

Well, I promise you one thing: One day the Church will answer to God for not being far more proactive about this issue!

MARANATHA!

There use to be a church discipline. I don’t really see much of that in western denominations. Of course any kind of malicious abuse is evil. What can a Christian do except involve law enforcement if such actions are taking place?

 

[Lanolin]

important topic

Well in NZ domestic violence is sadly quite common.
A law was passed a few years ago that made smacking children a criminal offence.(because the children ended up in hospital or even dying from being 'disicplined' parents would go way too far)

I dont know if that sent a message but I do recall SOME christians were against this law. ?!


As for programs Most churches I know have things like budget advice like CAP (christians against poverty)
community meals, and youth groups.

There are womens refuges (anonymous) set up throughout the country although they are not officially run by churches

Salvation Army has drug and drink rehab centres.

I recall one pastor in a church telling people about his childhood where his parents split up and so now he has a heart for divorcees, he found shelter and jobs etc for those fleeing domestic violence. Some churches might turn away divorcees and their children but the ones I went to never did...they welcomed them , told them the gospel and helped them get back on their feet.

every year there is a protest march for domestic violence victims and people wear white ribbons to show their support, displays are put up in the library, I recall I was trained to give people a lifeline if they wanted to talk about it.

There is a free 0800 number for anybody to talk, victim support, and for youth. some dont always go to the police because the police can only do so much.

Im not sure why its not addressed in American churches but this is the reality here in nz.

 

[Lanolin]

many churches also have a prison ministry, I have participated in angel tree where we gift children of prisoners at christmas

You can also gift books etc to children in hospital and in refuges
Librarians do work in prisons. I think reading with children is important as a way of not just sharing the gospel but loving your children.

A lot of work needs to be done on parenting skills. There are many parenting workshops and seminars run by churches. I think most of them are free but its up to the parents to take time out to upskill.

also childrens books need to be available. A lot of parents dont even know the routine of taking their children to the library (which is free) some just turn on the tv instead like thats the babysitter.

 

[Lanolin]

where I think the church might be lacking in this area

is the dad upskill program. I think if there were more free Mens sheds (some churches have them, or makerplaces) it can be a place where Dads can bond with their children or provide help say if they wanted to go on a fishing trip or build a go kart or something.

free or low cost christian camps are also important time for families to bond and families to get together. It takes resources to put a camp together but every church ought to have some kind of retreat on offer every year. It just to get away from the grind of daily life and enjoy each others company.

people/families who are well off often go on a package holiday or something but for poorer families its beyond their means even to have a week off together. But they need this too.

 

[Lanolin]

huh...doesnt seem that anyone on CC is listening ...

well, behind closed doors a lot can go on.
However God knows about all. about it. For chuches, if a pastor or bishop cannot rule his own household well, he cant then rule a church, its said in the Bible. By rule, it really means look after, provide.

we also know that any man that abandons his household and fails to provide for his own is worse than an infidel.

Now if it were EASY to provide for ones household, there might be less domestic violence but as we know, its really not that easy, because jobs etc are not always plentiful. Plus you need higher education for a professional job, which requires more study and expense. There are also those who choose, for whatever reason, to spend money on drugs or gamble it away rather than food and shelter for their own children.

Then there is also war which takes its toll on families. And things that we cant seem to control like housing supply. Rich, well off families arent immune either, in fact, workaholism and greed are also part of the problem.

 

[Nehemiah6]

What I am wondering is: How many Congregations (regardless of Denomination or Group or Affiliation) have Programs that address and deal with the problem of Domestic Abuse/Violence?

Domestic abuse/violence/killing of family members is rampant throughout North America. But that is a symptom of the disease which is alienation from God. So the remedy is salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ. Which means that the propagation of the Gospel is the first priority of churches, and the discipling of new converts is the second priority.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Domestic abuse/violence/killing of family members is rampant throughout North America. But that is a symptom of the disease which is alienation from God. So the remedy is salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ. Which means that the propagation of the Gospel is the first priority of churches, and the discipling of new converts is the second priority.

amen Nehemiah that is always the right answer to solve every issue in the church if we could all get there to that wise instruction we would shake the world