when will the most evil doctrin in the world get banned on this site.

[gb9]

I'm leaving this site. Goodbye this is my last post to Christian chat. due to none stop abuse and God's words being trashed and Christians being abused by angry people and false accusers and anti Christians i have decided to leave for good this time,

how many times have you left ??

 

[Phoneman-777]

He defined it as such, not me. Take it to him.

Also, saying people do something for a certain reason IS judging motive.

To say people adopt a doctrine so they can sin all they want judges motive.

I am sorry you cannot see the truth of that. Perhaps take that one to God

Good gravy, people, are you guys for real? "Judge motive" is possible only when the motive is unclear. If I said a person obtains a hunting license to hunt, a fishing license to fish, a liquor license to sell liquor, a contractor license to construct...you guys are totally fine with that.

But, say "people want to obtain a OSAS License to Sin in order to escape the same penalty the Unlicensed must suffer for doing the exact same things done by the Licensed" and everyone loses their minds.

 

[Phoneman-777]

They'll be baaaack. My worst Arnold impression ever.
Just look for the same rhetoric and there they are.

Bro, if they abused Christ, should we expect anything less? "We must gather warmth from the coldness of others, strength from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason". It's my wish to see in heaven all who mock and disparage

why is it wrong to judge a motive ?, Could you explain ? Or why don't you judge motives

When the motive is unclear, it's wrong to judge it because God alone knows the heart. Clear motives such as drinking because the body requires water, sleeping because one requires rest, obtaining a fishing, hunting, or trawling license because one is required to do those things...needs no judgment call. However, attraction, flattery, jealousy, dependency, etc., can be motivated by many things.

There's only one reason a OSAS License to Sin is required - to escape the same punishment for doing the exact same thing for which the Unlicensed will suffer. The OSAS crowd denies this - not because it's untrue - but because saying it like this strips away the dignity with which they clothe this false doctrine.

 

[gb9]

Bro, if they abused Christ, should we expect anything less? "We must gather warmth from the coldness of others, strength from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason". It's my wish to see in heaven all who mock and disparage
When the motive is unclear, it's wrong to judge it because God alone knows the heart. Clear motives such as drinking because the body requires water, sleeping because one requires rest, obtaining a fishing, hunting, or trawling license because one is required to do those things...needs no judgment call. However, attraction, flattery, jealousy, dependency, etc., can be motivated by many things.

There's only one reason a OSAS License to Sin is required - to escape the same punishment for doing the same thing that the Unlicensed will suffer, and the OSAS knows this, but can't stand their position framed this way, so out come the horns, fangs, and claws.

while we disagree on a lot, you are right about the o s a s crowd. saying that throwing out 1 prayer and you are good , not matter what is bad indeed.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

does once saved always saved suffer from a sydrome called once grudged always grudged ? What is your real personal grievance,. It's almost like your on the rebound every single day or nearly every single topic your on the rebound, over something,. Has somebody treated you really bad or something ?. Surely a few disagreements shouldnt grieve you this must,. Personally I think you need serious help dude. Or you need to get over what's causing you to lash out all the time. Your going to end up getting far to angry one day and land your self in trouble 😔

If a man is really saved, then there should've been a change of ATTITUDE, all the sinful pleasures he previously enjoy would lose their appeal, he would be able to see them as abominations, to feel the regret and remorse, and strive to live a godly life for Christ. That's called SANCTIFICATION, a lifetime process. If there's no change in personal life at all, then he's probably not saved at all.

 

[rogerg]

But, say "people want to obtain a OSAS License to Sin in order to escape the same penalty the Unlicensed must suffer for doing the exact same things done by the Licensed" and everyone loses their minds.

So, you don't believe that Christ's offering removed all sin from those saved?
If you count yourself a Christian, then what do you think was the purpose was Christ's offering, and what is the centerpiece of Christian doctrine?

How would you interpret these verses (amongst many others)?

[Rom 6:17-18 KJV]
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

[Rom 8:2 KJV]
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

[Rom 7:24-25 KJV]
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Chester]

So, you don't believe that Christ's offering removed all sin from those saved?
If you count yourself a Christian, then what do you think was the purpose was Christ's offering, and what is the centerpiece of Christian doctrine?

How would you interpret these verses (amongst many others)?

[Rom 6:17-18 KJV]
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

[Rom 8:2 KJV]
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

[Rom 7:24-25 KJV]
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Those are wonderful, beautiful verses that talk of the believer being free from sin and free from the law of sin and death. Hallelujah! The centerpiece of the cross is that it is the atonement and offers to the believer the forgiveness of sins. It removes all sin from the believer because Jesus paid the complete price for sin. And He is faithful and "just" (I John 1:9) to forgive the sins of the believer. God's justice was satisfied and when the believer clings to the blood atonement of Christ the justice of God is on his side. Justice "screams" that the believer is cleansed and forgiven because of the blood of the Lamb.

The problem with OSAS is that it attributes the blessings of forgiveness to the unbeliever (as long as he at some point in time had believed in Jesus). Or, another version of OSAS teaches that once a person becomes a believer, God takes away their free choice and they are no longer morally capable/able to choose to reject God.

 

[rogerg]

Those are wonderful, beautiful verses that talk of the believer being free from sin and free from the law of sin and death. Hallelujah! The centerpiece of the cross is that it is the atonement and offers to the believer the forgiveness of sins. It removes all sin from the believer because Jesus paid the complete price for sin. And He is faithful and "just" (I John 1:9) to forgive the sins of the believer. God's justice was satisfied and when the believer clings to the blood atonement of Christ the justice of God is on his side. Justice "screams" that the believer is cleansed and forgiven because of the blood of the Lamb.

The problem with OSAS is that it attributes the blessings of forgiveness to the unbeliever (as long as he at some point in time had believed in Jesus). Or, another version of OSAS teaches that once a person becomes a believer, God takes away their free choice and they are no longer morally capable/able to choose to reject God.

Maybe I don't understand your point exactly, Chester, but it seems to me that your second paragraph fundamentally and dramatically contradicts your first - and both can't be true. How can someone receive eternal life, and yet, not have it eternally? Anyway, the point should not be what "OSAS teaches", all that matters is what the Gospel teaches -- and as you said, the believer's sin is forgiven -- but not through or by anything they may have done -- but by the blood of the Lamb -- and by that do we know the heart of the Gospel.
Regarding your point regarding the believer's moral capabilities, there is a lot more that can be said about that, but I'll defer for the time being.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Look, as you probably have already noticed, I'm not too smart. So, if you are expecting a reply from me, you're
going to have to provide a lot more context than that cause I don't understand your point.

Dude, you think you ain't smart? I'M FROM THE SOUTH...you don't get no slower than that.

My point is that choice is not work, it's "thought", and therefore cannot be said to be "work to obtain salvation" like someone might put coins in the coffers or obedience to religious laws

 

[Phoneman-777]

So, you don't believe that Christ's offering removed all sin from those saved?

Is a husband truly "sorry" for adultery if he habitually does it, and can a wife forgive him if he's not truly sorry?

 

[rogerg]

Is a husband truly "sorry" for adultery if he habitually does it, and can a wife forgive him if he's not truly sorry?

What does sorry have to do with it? Those saved have been forgiven of all of their transgressions.

 

[rogerg]

My point is that choice is not work, it's "thought", and therefore cannot be said to be "work to obtain salvation" like someone might put coins in the coffers or obedience to religious laws

Work is not only effort, but also task too: anything someone must do for salvation, regardless of the labor involved, is work. It is work because it is an attempt to apply "choice" as spiritual legal tender for purchasing salvation; however, salvation is only given as a gift: it is not for purchase.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[wintersrain]

What does sorry have to do with it? Those saved have been forgiven of all of their transgressions.

You're arguing with that what does not know the Gospel, you realize? They and the now departed De are in that regard one and the same.

When the repentant sinner is called to Christ by God and repent of their sins, God forgives and remembers them no more.
What the one you're trying to reach also doesn't know is what is contained in the heart of the redeemed. They're a new person. 2 Corinthians 5:17
Hebrews 10 and verse 17. “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

1 John 1:7-9 is so often misunderstood or worse, misrepresented. And when it is misrepresented to claim those reborn in Christ are still sinners, the verse itself proves that false.
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

This part is presupposing those who would insist when hearing this sermon that it doesn't apply because they're not sinners: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. "

This part continues the truth of the Gospel. And the eternality of its promise, Christ's blood cleansing us from all unrighteousness. Whereas those who insist we are still sinners deny that occurs when they insist we are still unrighteous in order to still be condemned as sinners who sin: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

And this scripture reiterates the above as it again reiterates the power in the blood of Jesus and its cleansing power.
Children of God
1 John 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. 9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

 

[rogerg]

When the repentant sinner is called to Christ by God and repent of their sins, God forgives and remembers them no more.
What the one you're trying to reach also doesn't know is what is contained in the heart of the redeemed. They're a new person

I mostly agree with you with the possible exception that I believe one must first be saved and born again through, and as a
result of God, in order to obtain and exhibit any of the attributes of a true Christian. Until that happens, we remain dead in sin and unable perceive things spiritual - just as a physically dead person cannot perceive the things of physical life

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[Rom 6:22 KJV]
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

[Rom 8:6-7 KJV]
6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Phoneman-777]

You are accusing OSAS people of presuming that they have a licence to sin. Instead of admitting that you have no evidence, you continue to be presumptuous. I am OSAS. I have never considered it a licence to sin. And you can give me not one shred of evidence to suggest that any other OSAS person also treats it as a licence to sin.

You try to cloud the issue by talking about choice, not works. It has nothing to do with OSAS. If you want to raise that subject separately, fine. And I would agree that Christianity is about choosing aright. What and why people choose is part of that discussion.

If you claim the saint can commit sin without fear of the same punishment that will befall the sinner who commits the same, that is the very definition of a license!

An Unlicensed person is punished for doing the same thing done by a Licensed person who goes unpunished.

Call it a "license" or "special treatment" or "permission" or "diplomatic immunity" or that ever popular but ridiculous talking point we hear about so much about daily: "PRIVILEGE".

 

[wintersrain]

I mostly agree with you with the possible exception that I believe one must first be saved and born again through, and as a
result of God, in order to obtain and exhibit any of the attributes of a true Christian. Until that happens, we remain dead in sin and unable perceive things spiritual - just as a physically dead person cannot perceive the things of physical life

But of course. I apologize for not being more clear in that regard in my post. I thought my postings and the scripture delivered that same message.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[Rom 6:22 KJV]
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

[Rom 8:6-7 KJV]
6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Amen!

 

[Phoneman-777]

What does sorry have to do with it? Those saved have been forgiven of all of their transgressions.

Not if they withdraw their repentance, like those Peter says had "escaped" but "became entangled again" or that Paul said "fall away" after they'd repented.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Work is not only effort, but also task too: anything someone must do for salvation, regardless of the labor involved, is work. It is work because it is an attempt to apply "choice" as spiritual legal tender for purchasing salvation; however, salvation is only given as a gift: it is not for purchase.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Choice is not work, it's thought. But, if you won't believe that, then believe the many OT and NT verses telling us to "choose ye this day whom ye will serve".

 

[rogerg]

Choice is not work, it's thought. But, if you won't believe that, then believe the many OT and NT verses telling us to "choose ye this day whom ye will serve".

Did you read John 6:29? It tells us that it is a work to believe. Your example doesn't address choosing.

 

[wintersrain]

Did you read John 6:29? It tells us that it is a work to believe. Your example doesn't address choosing.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
The work of God, not man. Makes sense if we use it in context with Paul's teaching from Jesus. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: