The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[NewStarChoice]

Hi NewStarChoice,

Thank you for entering in. You had some good things to say, however I do not believe the Body of Christ will be on the earth at Rev. 10: 7.

You will see that the little book and the `angel` are shown in Daniel 12.
They relate to Israel - Dan. 12: 1, `your people,` relating to Daniel and the time of great trouble.
And Rev. 10: 6 shows that the fulfillment of that is about to happen.

The Body of Christ, however has previously been caught away to rule with the Lord n His own throne, (Rev. 3: 21) where they will judge the world system and fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3) And that is before the beginning of the trib.

The Church will be on the Earth at Revelation 10:7 because it is when the mystery of God written in the Bible shall be revealed by the Church to save and gather more for the Rapture. It will be the time when hidden knowledge in prophecy is revealed, prophecies that are not understood until the time of the end. Prophecies that will prove there is a living God, prophecy that reveals who the Anti-Christ is and, mankind’s role in saving Creation from death and hell is understood.

It will be a time when each individual will then have to make a decision to be saved or else default to not being raptured where they will remain behind, to face the tribulation of the Anti-Christ who will seek to rule the Earth to make all worship and obey him. If those on Earth die for Jesus in the tribulation, they will save their lives. If they bow down to the Anti-Christ they will be punished by the seven vials poured upon the earth. That final judgement is their last chance to ask Jesus for forgiveness to receive mercy and salvation. Ultimately if they are so anti-Christ and continue to curse God and continue to reject his salvation they will be put out of their misery in the second death.

Therefore creation is given three chances to be saved from death and the curse started by Lucifer - we choose the first which is to be raptured, some, the second which survive the testing in the tribulation period, and finally those at the third that seek mercy from their fate during the pouring of the seven vials.

The angel (or messenger) in Revelation 10:6 might be the person who is able to reveal what the End Time Message is, and is the one who cried out with a loud voice that caused the seven thunders to utter their voices. The message uttered that John was about to write down but, God said do not, was because it was not the message of truth. The truth is Jesus is Almighty God Saviour, and no man or angel can enter into the Kingdom of God without him.

We will enter the days of Revelation 10:7 when the mystery of God is known, when the world prepares for the Second Coming of Christ in a manner not seen before.

The little book in Revelation 10 was the Bible that contains the words of God. The book referred to in Daniel 12:1 is the Book of Life. In Daniel 12:4 it is either the book of Daniel or the Bible. I think it refers to the prophecies in the Bible that are sealed till the Last Days.

 

[John146]

THAT IS WHAT THEY WROTE. I DIDN'T MAKE IT UP. I AM NOT SITTING HERE LYING, LIKE IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. IF YOU HAVEN'T READ IT YOURSELF YOU NEED TO. THIS ISN'T OPINION IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. THESE ARE THE FACTS. I DON'T KNOW OF ANYONE WHO DISPUTES THEM AS BEING FACTS.


1611 King James Bible Introduction
To the most high and mightie Prince, James by the grace of God King of Great Britaine, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, &c. The translators of The Bible, wish Grace, Mercie, and Peace, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1611 King James Biblereat and manifold were the blessings (most dread Soveraigne) which Almighty GOD, the Father of all Mercies, bestowed upon us the people of ENGLAND, when first he sent your Majesties Royall person to rule and raigne over us. For whereas it was the expectation of many, who wished not well unto our ZION, that upon the setting of that bright Occidentall Starre Queene ELIZABETH of most happy memory, some thicke and palpable cloudes of darkenesse would so have overshadowed this land, that men should have bene in doubt which way they were to walke, and that it should hardly be knowen, who was to direct the unsetled State: the appearance of your MAJESTIE, as of the Sunne in his strength, instantly dispelled those supposed and surmised mists, and gave unto all that were well affected, exceeding cause of comfort; especially when we beheld the government established in your HIGHNESSE, and your hopefull Seed, by an undoubted Title, and this also accompanied with Peace and tranquillitie, at home and abroad.

But amongst all our Joyes, there was no one that more filled our hearts, then the blessed continuance of the Preaching of GODS sacred word amongst us, which is that inestimable treasure, which excelleth all the riches of the earth, because the fruit thereof extendeth it selfe, not onely to the time spent in this transitory world, but directeth and disposeth men unto that Eternall happinesse which is above in Heaven.

Then, not to suffer this to fall to the ground, but rather to take it up, and to continue it in that state, wherein the famous predecessour of your HIGHNESSE did leave it; Nay, to goe forward with the confidence and resolution of a man in maintaining the trueth of CHRIST, and propagating it farre and neere, is that which hath so bound and firmely knit the hearts of all your MAJESTIES loyall and Religious people unto you, that your very Name is precious among them, their eye doeth behold you with comfort, and they blesse you in their hearts, as that sanctified person, who under GOD, is the immediate authour of their true happinesse. And this their contentment doeth not diminish or decay, but every day increaseth and taketh strength, when they observe that the zeale of your Majestie towards the house of GOD, doth not slacke or goe backward, but is more and more kindled, manifesting it selfe abroad in the furthest parts of Christendome, by writing in defence of the Trueth, (which hath given such a blow unto that man of Sinne, as will not be healed) and every day at home, by Religious and learned discourse, by frequenting the house of GOD, by hearing the word preached, by cherishing the teachers therof, by caring for the Church as a most tender and loving nourcing Father.

Did you know that most of the authors of the Bible had no idea they were writing holy scripture?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Me thinks you have me mixed up with another.
Me believes it is on purpose.

Another of the same theory or a different theory?

 

[FreeGrace2]

no ,it is mat 24.
Vivid pretrib rapture depiction.

Rather, just a presumption of one.

btw, there are NO resurrection passages that depict Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.

Since such an event would be quite dramatic, why would God hide that event in passages that aren't about the resurrection?

 

[Absolutely]

We all know Jesus re returns at the second coming which is revelation 19 on the white horses. I think everybody can see that and believes it. However we see another coming of Jesus in fact if you open that Bible you will see three actual Commings of jesus.

We see in Matthew 24, after the tribulation, that Jesus comes and it is definitely on the white horses after the tribulation

we see after the tribulation there is a gathering in heaven by Angels not Jesus and not from the Earth.
We clearly see that going on after the tribulation.
That is not the Rapture nor can it possibly be the rapture.
Now we see also in Matthew 24 ,if you skip down to about verse 40 or so ,another coming and Jesus frames it pre-tribulation Jesus says it's like unto Noah Before the Flood he entered the Ark.
That cannot be nor is it a limited to any such of a thing as "After the flood".
It is pre-tribulation coming of Jesus

it specifically says, vividly depicted ,that Jesus said his coming will be like unto the days of Noah Before the Flood

so there's no way that can be any sign or any pointing to a post tribulation anyting.
Still not convinced?
There is plenty more because it says and that same time frame of "before the flood " they will be eating and drinking and marrying. It also says in that same time frame "Before the Flood," they'll be two on a Housetop, one taken one left,
Now remember that's Before the Flood there will be two in a bed one taken one left

now remember that is Before the Flood.
Still not convinced?
Keep reading

it says therefore watch and be ready for the son of man is coming.
Still not convinced?
In the same breath only a few sentences later Jesus brings in the parable of the virgins.
The exact same ratio are taken.

50% of that group are taken, exactly mirroring the same ratio previously mentioned .....50% taken 50% left behind.
The Bible says Let My Words Be confirmed in two or three Witnesses.
In that same parable of the ten virgins it is vividly depicted as the rapture.
In fact it is probably the most profound and Vivid description of the rapture that we have in the Bible. It even has Jesus taking virgins into the marriage. And again look at the setting the setting of the parable there is no hint of an antichrist any horses or even Jesus on a horse. He is not a warrior he is not killing anybody nor is he leading his bride into any War. And in that same setting the virgins are enjoying their freedom ,it is depicting a pre-tribulation normal activity and no Antichrist demon ruling the world.
Now what do we conclude here? I conclude what the Bible is declaring that there are more than one coming of Jesus.
Now if there is more than one coming and the Bible is profoundly clear that there is, then there cannot possibly be any post-trib rapture.

 

[Absolutely]

AND 'CHRISTIANS' ARE PLURAL. And when you divide the church into 'the staying and the leaving' then the body becomes plural too. But if there were no 'PRE TRIB' hidden secret not written conclusions of man doctrine,

ALL OF THIS WOULD BE CRYSTAL CLEAR and WITHOUT ANY questions.


Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together.

BUT PRE TRIB SAYS THOUGH CHRIST WAS TEMPTED OF SATAN, WE WON'T BE. THOUGH CHRIST GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US, WE WILL NOT DO THE SAME FOR HIM, WE WANT HIM TO DO IT YET AGAIN.


Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

BUT PRE TRIB SAYS 'NO, THERE IS A SUFFERING WE WILL NOT DO, WE WILL NOT SUFFER TO DEATH'

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

BUT PRE TRIB SAYS 'YOU WAIT, NOT US'

Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

NOT WILLINGLY BUT SUBJECTED 'IN HOPE'. BUT PRE TRIB SAYS 'SHOW US'

Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

PRE TRIB SAYS 'SEE' THIS PROVES IT, EVEN WHEN THERE IS NOTHING TO SEE

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

PRE TRIB SAYS AND YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT IS PRE TRIB BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT PRE TRIB SAYS, BUT THAT ISN'T WHAT IS WRITTEN AT ALL. HOW DO WE KNOW FOR SURE?

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

FOR WE ARE SAVED BY HOPE, NOT SOMETHING SEEN. AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN

Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

PRE TRIB SAYS IT IS MAKING FLIGHT PLANS

Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

WHAT ABOUT ESCAPE? PRE TRIB DOESN'T WANT THE HEART SEARCHED, IT ISN'T ABOUT THE WILL OF GOD, IT'S ABOUT THE BODY, THE PROMISES, THE FINAL GENERATION BEING TREATED AS NO OTHER EVER HAS NO MATTER WHAT CAME THEIR WAY.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


PRE TRIB SAYS SURE BUT NOT FOR THE FINAL GENERATION. THIS WHOLE WORLD IS BEING LEFT TO THOSE WHO JUST GOT KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN TO HOOK UP WITH THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE OR CARE WHO ARE GOING TO TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST WITHOUT EVERY 'DEPARTING' FROM ANY FAITH IN GOD. SINCE ALL BELIEVERS WILL BE IN HEAVEN THERE WILL BE NO ONE TO DECEIVE. NO ONE TO HAVE A 10 DAY TRIAL. NOT EVEN ENOUGH YEARS TO LEARN WHAT IS WRITTEN LET ALONE DEFEND IT. BUT THAT ISN'T THE BODIES PROBLEM. THEY ARE OFF TO FEAST.

Romans 8:29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.


ALL EXCEPT FOR THAT LAST AND FINAL GENERATION OF CHRISTIANS. NO, THEY COME IN FAITH ALONE, SO THEY HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITIES ON ANY LEVEL.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Romans 8:32 He that spared not His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

WELL, AS PRE TRIB SAYS 'EXCEPT FOR' WHEN HE COMES PRE TRIB. THEN HE ISN'T AT THE RIGHT HAND. HE WOULD BE AT THE FOOTSTOOL AT THAT TIME AND BEFORE HIS ENEMIES ARE MADE (CAST OUT) HIS. NO, IT ISN'T WRITTEN, BUT PRE TRIB SAYS IT, SO WHAT ARE WE TO DO? BELIEVE THE WORDS OF GOD?

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

PRE TRIB SAYS GREAT TRIBULATION AND TRIBULATION IS NOT FOR US OF THE FINAL GENERATION. WE ARE NOT SHEEP FOR THE SLAUGHTER. THAT WOULD BE THEM. ONLY SO MUCH PERSECUTION A CHRISTIAN OF THE LAST GENERATION COULD TAKE. ONLY SO MUCH PERIL OR SWORD OR NAKEDNESS FOR THE BODY PRE TRIB PROMISES.

Romans 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

PRE TRIB SAYS TRUE, EXCEPT FOR THE LAST GENERATION. THOSE CHRISTIANS WILL NOT BE ACCOUNTED AS SHEEP FOR THE SLAUGHTER BECAUSE 'GOD WOULDN'T DO THAT' AND IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT ISN'T WRITTEN ANYWHERE, THEY SAY IT.

Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us.


PRE TRIB SAYS EXCEPT FOR THE LAST GENERATIONS WE AREN'T CONQUERORS WE ARE TAKING FLIGHT AND LEAVING IT ALL TO THOSE WHO NEVER HEARD THE TRUTH AND THE TWO WITNESSES

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

PRE TRIB SAY 'I AM PERSUADED THAT DEATH WOULD BE AN ISSUE' AT LEAST FOR THE FINAL GENERATION.

Romans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


AGAIN, HOW MANY OF THE WORDS OF GOD DOES THE PRE TRIB APOSTASY MAKE NULL AND VOID? HOW CAN WE TRUST ANYTHING WE READ IF PRE TRIB WERE TRUTH? AS YOU CAN SEE almost none of the words of God could be counted on if this apostasy were true.

I may just start with Matt and go through the whole book to see exactly how many verses are rendered null and void. I wonder how it would read if all those verses were just simply erased.

None of your deal fits.
Mat 24 depicts vividly " 2 commings".
The second one mentioned is pretrib, half of a group raptured, topped off with "watch, wait, and be ready.

You need to reframe your above post to;
"Pretrib waits for Jesus as Jesus instructed, but us postribbers know better, we are looking for, and waiting earnestly for ,the devil man. Many of us have our caves picked out to hide in. We are so brave"

That is what is going on.
You guys reject any idea of waiting for Jesus or being ready.
But it is not stopping you from mocking and despising those of us obedient to Jesus command.

Do a study on the command to watch, wait, and be ready.

It will shock you how your teachers have duped you guys.

 

[Absolutely]

4 ARK IS CARRIED MORE THAN A MILE INTO THE SKY ( as is the church)

Do those really say the same thing? Just as the subtil lie in the garden. You may be fooling yourself but not those who can read.

You struggle so earnestly over a simple observation, then give me some paranoia over venturing into the obvious.

The book of hebrews is full of metaphors and analogies.

Please stay away from that book.

The water covered the mountains
It is scarry, i suppose.

Not to me.

But what spirit comes along and says" i will tell you what NOT to think about the flood and what observations I say are ALLOWED.

What spirit is operating ??????

 

[Hitch]

Did you know that most of the authors of the Bible had no idea they were writing holy scripture?

That has what to with kler's post ?

 

[Beckie]

You struggle so earnestly over a simple observation, then give me some paranoia over venturing into the obvious.

The book of hebrews is full of metaphors and analogies.

Please stay away from that book.

The water covered the mountains
It is scarry, i suppose.

Not to me.

But what spirit comes along and says" i will tell you what NOT to think about the flood and what observations I say are ALLOWED.

What spirit is operating ??????

The Scriptures say the waters covered the earth . Not scary at all. What is scary is your dishonesty of the Word of God is allowed on a Christian forum. You are not being truthful saying the ark was a mile in the heavens. The Scriptures tell us who the father of all lies is and saying what you do distorting the Word of God is lie. While asking someone to stay way from more Scripture . Your father is calling you,

 

[FreeGrace2]

We all know Jesus re returns at the second coming which is revelation 19 on the white horses. I think everybody can see that and believes it.

Jesus doesn't "re returns" at the Second Advent. Jesus returns at the Second Advent. And, yes, that is shown in Rev 19.

The end of Rev 19 is the end of the trib and battle of Armageddon. Then Rev 20 begins with the chaining of Satan and the beginning of the 1,000 year reign of the King of kings. Also we find that the Trib martyrs are resurrected to reign with Christ. Hmm.

The Bible makes real clear that there is just ONE resurrection of the saved, according to the singular in Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15, and 1 Cor 15:23. And 1 Cor 15:23 tells us in very plain words WHEN this single resurrection will occur; which is "when He comes". And we know who ALL will be involved in this single resurrection of the saved: ALL the saved. "those who belong to Him" has to mean every believer from Adam on since every believer does belong to Him.

So, since Rev 20:5 describes the resurrection of the trib martyrs a the FIRST resurrection (the one for the saved), we know that every believer will get a glorified body "when He comes", which according to Rev 20 is at the end of the Trib.

However we see another coming of Jesus in fact if you open that Bible you will see three actual Commings of jesus.

Well, let's see what you have.

We see in Matthew 24, after the tribulation, that Jesus comes and it is definitely on the white horses after the tribulation

we see after the tribulation there is a gathering in heaven by Angels not Jesus and not from the Earth.

Why do you leave out (omit) actual verses here? What verses show a "gathering in heaven by Angels"? And what are they gathering IN heaven anyway?

29 “Immediately after the distress (TRIBULATION) of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. {clearly the Second Advent}

So there's that.

We clearly see that going on after the tribulation.

And, what is that? Any verse to help up know what's in your mind?

Since there isn't anything to help us determine what's on Abs' mind, here's a verse:

31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Unless there is actual proof or evidence of winds in the 3rd heaven, we must realize that the "four winds" has to do with EARTH and its weather pattern. Since Abs seems always short on evidence, let's examine Rev 7:1 - After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.

So, we see clear EVIDENCE that the "four winds" refer to winds of earth, not heaven. Everyone except Abs knows that the word "heaven" frequently refers to the atmosphere of earth.

So there's that, too.

That is not the Rapture nor can it possibly be the rapture.

Hm. Sounds like just a lot of presumption here. And NO evidence to support this presumption. But typical anyway.

However, now that we actually know what the "four winds of the heaven" refers to earth's atmosphere, we also know that this "gathering" by angels is "His elect". 1 Cor 15:23 says "when He comes" (Matt 24:30) "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. So "His elect" are ALL the saved throughout all of history.

Now we see also in Matthew 24 ,if you skip down to about verse 40 or so ,another coming and Jesus frames it pre-tribulation Jesus says it's like unto Noah Before the Flood he entered the Ark.

OK, finally a specific verse to look at. So, let's do. The context actually begins at v.36

36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,but only the Father.
37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;
39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

v.36 refers to the precise day or hour of the day that Jesus comes back at the Second Advent.
v.37 sets up the comparison between LIFE during the "days of Noah" and LIFE "at the (Second) coming of the Son of Man".
v.38 proves that this comparison is about LIFE, or how people were living. "eating/drinking/marrying/giving in marriage".
v.39 these people weren't aware of what was about to occur (the flood). The verse ends with "that is HOW IT WILL BE (life) at the "Second) coming of the Son of Man".

v.40,41 shows that there will be some people 'taken' and some 'left'. However, there is NOTHING in this entire context about Jesus taking anyone to heaven.

That cannot be nor is it a limited to any such of a thing as "After the flood".
It is pre-tribulation coming of Jesus[/QUOTE]
And there's that pesky presumption raising its ugly head again.

So there's that as well.

it specifically says, vividly depicted ,that Jesus said his coming will be like unto the days of Noah Before the Flood

Yep. And what Jesus noted what HOW PEOPLE WILL BE LIVING. Not anything about His coming to earth.

iow, for those who may be a bit slow on the uptake, the way people were living BEFORE the flood will be the same for the way people will be living before He comes back. That's all. Nothing about pretrib anything.

so there's no way that can be any sign or any pointing to a post tribulation anyting.
Still not convinced?

Why would anyone? You've got no evidence for Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven, in spite of all the resurrection verses and passages.

When people really DON'T WANT TO see something, they will go to great lengths to NOT SEE something.
Sad.

 

[Hitch]

And that silly Jesus thought the resurrection would come at the last day. How stupid can you get?

 

[FreeGrace2]

And that silly Jesus thought the resurrection would come at the last day. How stupid can you get?

Uh, which "last day" are YOU referring to? Do you even know how many there are?

 

[Hitch]

Uh, which "last day" are YOU referring to? Do you even know how many there are?

One. Kinda like there was one First Day.


When people really DON'T WANT TO see something, they will go to great lengths to NOT SEE something.
Sad.

Why they will even contradict JESUS CHRIST out of hand , sad yes , but comically so.

 

[Absolutely]

The Scriptures say the waters covered the earth . Not scary at all. What is scary is your dishonesty of the Word of God is allowed on a Christian forum. You are not being truthful saying the ark was a mile in the heavens. The Scriptures tell us who the father of all lies is and saying what you do distorting the Word of God is lie. While asking someone to stay way from more Scripture . Your father is calling you,

How high did the water go?
I am teachable and interested in your correct view.
So how high?

 

[Beckie]

Uh, which "last day" are YOU referring to? Do you even know how many there are?

When the One who made all things which would include time as man knows it says last day one might think He knows what He is saying. He says here last day. Not last day of, or last days , Just plain ol last day. We christians say the Bile is the Word of God yet to fit into our theology we side step much of what is written. Our theologies become our truth over the Scriptures .

Joh_1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Over and over in this thread John 5 and 6 have been referred to, also the question asked ; What did Jesus say? Putting aside our preconceived thoughts ,we all have them, What did Jesus say? I will not be quoting both complete chapters. Thankful for the chapters and verses yet we know Scripture was not first written so.


Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Hitch]

When the One who made all things which would include time as man knows it says last day one might think He knows what He is saying. He says here last day. Not last day of, or last days , Just plain ol last day. We christians say the Bile is the Word of God yet to fit into our theology we side step much of what is written. Our theologies become our truth over the Scriptures .

Joh_1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Over and over in this thread John 5 and 6 have been referred to, also the question asked ; What did Jesus say? Putting aside our preconceived thoughts ,we all have them, What did Jesus say? I will not be quoting both complete chapters. Thankful for the chapters and verses yet we know Scripture was not first written so.


Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Like anyone here actually follows Jesus LOL

 

[Beckie]

How high did the water go?
I am teachable and interested in your correct view.
So how high?

The scriptures tell us how high the water was. What you have lied to yourself and others about is saying the ark was over a mile in the heavens. Your words live with'em

 

[Beckie]

Like anyone here actually follows Jesus LOL

I keep hoping eyes will be open to Him and His Words... I once believed most of what is posted here, Had some nudges from different sources prayed something like Lord , open my heart, my spirit and understanding to what You have to say, conform my understand to Your words. Slowly i saw much Light shinning through the opening..

 

[Hitch]

'Last day' is used only 8 times in all of Scripture , 4 times in John 6 . Which is why most futurists avoid it like a leper. It doesnt fit in any rapture scheme.

 

[Blade]

You know the greatest moments in my life came by just believing what He said. So many times didn't truly understand it yet I just took it by faith. Gods words is not only for the wise, scholars to decipher . Children can understand it. Heres a clue as long as man tries without His help you will never see whats there only what you want to see. As long as you say "there is no rapture" "theres no healing" "God does not talk any more" "gifts are dead" etc. The point is as long as we say whats true God will never go against your will.

We tend to puff our selfs up and kid or make fun of others that don't follow our teaching. Reading "this is what I personally believe and why" are we? Or are we being told what Gods word really means by some believer (praise GOD) that has no more information that we do? Scripture, none for pre trib, post trib, church will be here during the great tribulation. That part why would the Church be there? Its not to test her.. our names are already written in the lambs book and are told "All the inhabitants of the earth will fall down and worship him, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the Book of Life of the Lamb who has been slain [as a willing sacrifice].". We are not spared yet the 144k are to spread the word .. anyway one has to toss in speculation and then RUN with it.

For me I have always wondered if Matt 24 was the same as 1st Thess what Paul saw yet there was always this check in me and then both do not match at all. Speculation "dead rise" ooh there it is thats the resurrection of the dead in Rev.. a ok not whats written. Without faith its impossible to please Him. I don't know.. why not just take Him at His word that He went to make a place for you.. and He will come back and get you so where He is you will be. Knowing Paul said we which remain not them not those but we. Thats what written. As long as you have to be right.. then its you not Him.