Major doctrinal errors found in Amillennialism.

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ewq1938 said:
That's the end of one age and the start of a new age, the thousand years and the gospel will be shared during it as it is being shared in your false version of it with satan deceiving people, sin and rebellion and murders of Christians. Those evil things don't exist in the real thousand years.
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Actually, God has always reigned om earth, even though evil things happen. When Jesus returns, all nations will be gathered before him and he will separate the saved from the unsaved.

this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Mt.24:14

The end.
 
Journeyman said:
Actually, God has always reigned om earth, even though evil things happen. When Jesus returns, all nations will be gathered before him and he will separate the saved from the unsaved.

this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Mt.24:14

The end.
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Which is the start of a new age of a thousand years of ruling the nations. After the thousand years the end of that age comes as well, then the rebellion and slaughter, resurrection of all the unsaved, the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ) and the lake of fire then the Earth and Heavens are symbolically burned leaving a New Heaven and new Earth for eternity.
 
19. Christ reigns in heaven over his enemies?

The problem with that theory is that Matthew 22:44 presents Christ remaining in heaven at the right side of his Father until it's time to reign over his enemies (they being made into a symbolic footstool). That is when he returns at the 7th trump and reigns his enemies with a rod of iron upon the Earth. A heavenly reign over his Earthly enemies is not scriptural and is obvious to anyone to currently not be happening since the world is in chaos. That will not happen when Christ is actually ruling everyone on this planet.
 
With regard to the end times and rapture, etc... I'm perfectly content in living in Christ and waiting for the appointed time as God determines. In my lifetime or well after, Amen!

All else is hubris insisting they know the mind of God when God said no one knows the day or time of anything that was revealed as future in John's revelations.
There's no thing to argue about. Or even debate. God knows. That's the end of it. Pun intended. :giggle:
 
ewq1938 said:
Which is the start of a new age of a thousand years of ruling the nations.
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No it isn't, because he says inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world and that Kingdom belongs only to those in Christ who neither marry or are given in marriage. He separates them from the unsaved, who are damned, so there are no unsaved left.
 
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ewq1938 said:
19. Christ reigns in heaven over his enemies?

The problem with that theory is that Matthew 22:44 presents Christ remaining in heaven at the right side of his Father until it's time to reign over his enemies (they being made into a symbolic footstool). That is when he returns at the 7th trump and reigns his enemies with a rod of iron upon the Earth. A heavenly reign over his Earthly enemies is not scriptural and is obvious to anyone to currently not be happening since the world is in chaos. That will not happen when Christ is actually ruling everyone on this planet.
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And why do you think God now and has always reigned over chaos? You think the ungodly were reigning over Jesus during his ministry on earth?

So Pilate said, "Do you refuse to speak to me? Don't you know I have the authority to release you, and to crucify you?"
Jesus replied, "You would have no authority over me at all, unless it was given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of greater sin." Jn.19:10-11

If you think Pilate was above our Savior, you better think again.
 
Journeyman said:
No it isn't, because he says inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world and that Kingdom belongs only to those in Christ who neither marry or are given in marriage. He separates them from the unsaved, who are damned, so there are no unsaved left.
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The damned are not cast into the lake of fire at the second coming. That only happens after the thousand years has ended at the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ).
 
Journeyman said:
And why do you think God now and has always reigned over chaos? You think the ungodly were reigning over Jesus during his ministry on earth?

So Pilate said, "Do you refuse to speak to me? Don't you know I have the authority to release you, and to crucify you?"
Jesus replied, "You would have no authority over me at all, unless it was given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of greater sin." Jn.19:10-11

If you think Pilate was above our Savior, you better think again.
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This is just a mix of a strawman fallacy and a red herring fallacy.

Jesus is not ruling the nations currently. When he does, there will not be false religions, rebellion or wars. That's why it is so obvious that this world is not in the thousand years. It's laughable that anyone would be so foolish to claim otherwise.
 
wintersrain said:
With regard to the end times and rapture, etc... I'm perfectly content in living in Christ and waiting for the appointed time as God determines. In my lifetime or well after, Amen!

All else is hubris insisting they know the mind of God when God said no one knows the day or time of anything that was revealed as future in John's revelations.
There's no thing to argue about. Or even debate. God knows. That's the end of it. Pun intended. :giggle:
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I am also content with concluding that the truth behind the revelation of John is hidden at least in part. What I do find intolerable is the conclusion that some interpretations such as amillenialism are "false" and those that would accuse others of holding a false believe - not by scripture but only on the basis of their unjustified assumptions that have been derived outside of what scripture says.

I think it is fair enough at the very least to argue for the validity of what is possibly true or what is necessarily untrue within the scope of these interpretations. But I see too many arguments trying to blur the line between what they deem to be a compelling interpretation and what scripture actually says.

Was the 1000 years a literal human span of 1000 years? Or was it a figurative expression of a length of time greater than a mortal human's lifespan? There is no way to know for sure what was meant, but we still see some individuals declare that 1000 years must be literal and all other interpretations false for no other reason than politics, hubris, or a poorly honed sense of logical thinking.

The literal 1000 year model is a necessary component in the dispensationalism recipe which is a hybrid religion of Christianity and modern nonChristian Judaism. The 1000 year model in that scenario is not being advocated for in some sort of scholarly light, it is being argued for on the basis of modern geographical politics in favour of a particular religious group's claim to physical land.

In the Latter Day Saint's book of Mormon, I'm sure there are specific writings which necessitate specific interpretations of OT and NT scripture in order to avoid contradiction. This appears to also be the case with Dispensationalism, where by adopting modern nonChristian scripture it then necessitates specific interpretations within OT and NT scripture in order to minimize the contradictions. In the modern nonChristian Jewish faiths, if I recall correctly, the Messiah comes to earth as the beginning of an everlasting Sabbath, all nonJews become slaves to Jewish masters that rule the world with the Messiah. That is why it is so important for a Dispensationalist to claim that the 1000 year kingdom is literal: they are lining up the Jewish masters theology with John's Revelation. They are giving authority in their interpretations to a nonChristian text. It's fine if they can establish a scripturally consistent view using this approach (which I have yet to see but I'll give it a fair chance for someone to make the case) but it is completely out of line to declare that interpretation to be necessarily true on the basis of the purported authority of that nonChristian text.
 
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ewq1938 said:
Jesus is not ruling the nations currently. When he does, there will not be false religions, rebellion or wars.
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My sincere friend, many people believe God doesn't exist for the reasons you cited, but our King said,

love ye your enemies, and do good....and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Lk.6:35

And how unthankful are people toward his goodness? They nailed him to a cross. Do you think those who mocked him were stronger than he is? Do you think when we lived in rebellion, we were ruling over him? But now we're emissaries for the King of the universe. There is no form of government higher than that.
 
ewq1938 said:
The damned are not cast into the lake of fire at the second coming. That only happens after the thousand years has ended at the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ).
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The next time mankind sees Jesus, they'll be seeing him as God Almighty.
 
Jocund said:
The literal 1000 year model is a necessary component in the dispensationalism recipe which is a hybrid religion of Christianity and modern nonChristian Judaism. The 1000 year model in that scenario is not being advocated for in some sort of scholarly light, it is being argued for on the basis of modern geographical politics in favour of a particular religious group's claim to physical land.
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You are dead on the money here bro. The beief that when the Messiah comes, there will be worldwide peace, is a distortion of scripture. Jesus said,

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household. Mt.10:34-36

He came to separate believers from unbelievers. But scripture also says when Messiah comes, there will be peace in earth. The peace he brings happens this way,

Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. Jn.14:27

His peace belongs only to his people. There is only one way to know for sure that the thousand years reign of our sweet merciful Lord is now. It's by believing in him completely.
 
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Journeyman said:
The next time mankind sees Jesus, they'll be seeing him as God Almighty.
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Some knew that was who they were looking at when they gazed upon Emmanuel in the flesh. ;)
Wouldn't that have been a glorious experience? Oh, to have walked with him and heard him speak the truth of the kingdom in person.
:love:
 
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20. Saints in heaven not reigning with Christ on thrones?

The souls of dead saints in the 5th seal should be on thrones reigning in heaven if Amill is correct, but they aren't since they are under the altar, which means reigning with Christ on thrones is a future event.
 
ewq1938 said:
20. Saints in heaven not reigning with Christ on thrones?

The souls of dead saints in the 5th seal should be on thrones reigning in heaven if Amill is correct, but they aren't since they are under the altar, which means reigning with Christ on thrones is a future event.
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From Rev 6 we see the imagery of saints under the altar (and before the throne of God per Rev 8:3) that were martyred. In Rev 20:4 we see the reference to matyrs sitting on thrones, reigning with Christ.

There are at least two approaches that we can take. Within the metaphor either there are "thrones" under the altar, and/or the saints being under altar is intended as a representation of the blood sacrifice within a temple. The blood from a sacrifice runs under the altar, and we see even in the case of Cain and Abel that the blood of Abel cried out after he was offered as a sacrifice.

I don't see any contradiction in this case from an amill perspective.
 
Jocund said:
From Rev 6 we see the imagery of saints under the altar (and before the throne of God per Rev 8:3) that were martyred. In Rev 20:4 we see the reference to matyrs sitting on thrones, reigning with Christ.

There are at least two approaches that we can take. Within the metaphor either there are "thrones" under the altar, and/or the saints being under altar is intended as a representation of the blood sacrifice within a temple. The blood from a sacrifice runs under the altar, and we see even in the case of Cain and Abel that the blood of Abel cried out after he was offered as a sacrifice.

I don't see any contradiction in this case from an amill perspective.
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The issue is that the dead saints should be sitting on thrones if they are actually ruling with Christ as Amillennialism claims. The fact that they aren't means they aren't ruling anything. They have to wait for their brothers to be killed in the Great Tribulation and resurrected at the second coming before they are allowed to rule. That's pure Premill.
 
ewq1938 said:
The issue is that the dead saints should be sitting on thrones if they are actually ruling with Christ as Amillennialism claims. The fact that they aren't means they aren't ruling anything. They have to wait for their brothers to be killed in the Great Tribulation and resurrected at the second coming before they are allowed to rule. That's pure Premill.
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How are you coming to the conclusion that the martyrs are not on thrones under the altar in Rev 6?
 
Jocund said:
How are you coming to the conclusion that the martyrs are not on thrones under the altar in Rev 6?
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Because they are under the altar rather than sitting on thrones. They are clearly not in any position of power as they cannot even act on their own desires. That's not ruling on a throne or wielding a rod of iron over others.
 
ewq1938 said:
Because they are under the altar rather than sitting on thrones. They are clearly not in any position of power as they cannot even act on their own desires. That's not ruling on a throne or wielding a rod of iron over others.
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So you are assuming without any scriptural basis that there are no thrones under the altar in Rev 6?

Why are you assuming this?
 
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