The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[Hitch]

I understand you to be saying having your name written in the book of life has nothing to do with salvation, is that correct?



Rev_17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Aint dogma fun ??

 

[Hitch]

The spiritual blessings in the heavenly places are in accordance of what God chose to give those who would be in Christ.

Sovereignty is not a biblical word. Let’s allow scripture to describe God not the RCC.

LOL run along .

 

[Hitch]

The spiritual blessings in the heavenly places are in accordance of what God chose to give those who would be in Christ.

Sovereignty is not a biblical word. Let’s allow scripture to describe God not the RCC.

Wow I've come across many pathetic responses over the years but this one is in the top 5.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Many commentaries will tell you that those 24 Elders are 12 disciples and 12 tribes, but if you're really familiar with the OT, you'd realize that they represent the 24 divisions of priesthood in 1 Chron. 24, doing the same kind of priestly duty in a heavenly temple.

From what I understand, there are three separate groupings of "24" mentioned or described in the Old Testament (not only the 24 divisions of priesthood in 1Chron24). I've posted about them in past posts. = )

 

[Absolutely]

Yeah , don’t see it . Noah , scenario is The Lords Return at an hour they knew not that judgement was upon them. One taken another left is definately the catching up with the saints to meet the Lord in the air at the time of His return , which is the first resurrection and the rapture . 1 4:16,17 . Been covered. That’s my story and I’m stickin to it .

" before the flood"
The setting is pre judgement.

That is what it says.

You omit it

It is there.

Will never go away.

"Before the food"
Then
" one taken, one left"
Pretrib rapture.

 

[Beckie]

" before the flood"
The setting is pre judgement.

That is what it says.

You omit it

It is there.

Will never go away.

"Before the food"
Then
" one taken, one left"
Pretrib rapture.

who was left at Noah's flood?

 

[Absolutely]

OK Exactly where is the tribulation mentioned or alluded to in this passage ?

Do you see what you just did?
The setting of noah is BEFORE THE FLOOD.
That means prejudgement/ pretrib.

You are asking for something that does not fit.

So yes! The reason there is no trib in those verses is because it is depicting a pretrib rapture!

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Absolutely]

who was left at Noah's flood?

The wicked and the inlaws.... both left behind.
( as in the rapture)
(Not all believers are the bride as depicted in the virgins parable of mat 25)

 

[Nehemiah6]

who was left at Noah's flood?

The only ones who were left were those within the Ark -- (a type of Christ). Actually "taken" from Judgment. This pre-figures the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Enoch (a type of the Church) was raptured before the Flood, and Methuselah was taken from the earth just the month before the Flood began.

The Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are divine judgments on the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked. They have absolutely nothing to do with the saints of God.

 

[cv5]

One thing is for sure, that "COME UP HERE" of Rev 11:12 must take place AFTER the 3.5 years tribulation, and then after 3.5 days they are resurrected. Those 3.5 days may also be a reference of the 3.5 years tribulation as well. That's a post-trib event whatsoever.

Many commentaries will tell you that those 24 Elders are 12 disciples and 12 tribes, but if you're really familiar with the OT, you'd realize that they represent the 24 divisions of priesthood in 1 Chron. 24, doing the same kind of priestly duty in a heavenly temple.

Rev. 11:2 does NOT take place at the end of the tribulation, the Second Coming or whatever other delusion you might hold. The seven BOWL judgments (which are the most severe) have not even started yet.

As to your bizarre preposterous notion that the 24 Elders "are 12 disciples and 12 tribes (you probably mean patriarchs)", I refer you to the unequivocal self description made by these 24 Elders spoken from their own mouths in Rev 5:9 "...and hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation;"

All of the disciples and all of the Tribes/Patriarchs are of course of the stock of Israel. So there goes your ridiculous theory down the drain.

 

[Hitch]

Interesting that our Lord's personal assignation of the contemporary generation to see the events associated with great tribulation is as clear as it is devastating to all this nonsense.
Comically sad. But then there is good reason rapture watchers seldom quote Jesus .

 

[cv5]

The only ones who were left were those within the Ark -- (a type of Christ). Actually "taken" from Judgment. This pre-figures the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Enoch (a type of the Church) was raptured before the Flood, and Methuselah was taken from the earth just the month before the Flood began.

The Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are divine judgments on the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked. They have absolutely nothing to do with the saints of God.

I disagree that the Ark of Noah carries with it the connotation of a type of the rapture.
I believe that it is a type of Israel whom God preserves THROUGH the tribulation...ON THE EARTH.

I do however agree that Enoch IS definitely a type of the rapture. Enoch was caught up TO HEAVEN before the Flood ever happened.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Rev. 11:2 does NOT take place at the end of the tribulation, the Second Coming or whatever other delusion you might hold. The seven BOWL judgments (which are the most severe) have not even started yet.

7 trumpets and 7 bowls happen in the same 3.5 year period, bowl judgements are just an escalated version of the trumpet judgements. Revelation is NOT written in chronological order, you've got your basics wrong. How could the bowl happen after the trumpets when Christ's kingdom is ALREADY declared in the 7th trumpet?

As to your bizarre preposterous notion that the 24 Elders "are 12 disciples and 12 tribes (you probably mean patriarchs)", I refer you to the unequivocal self description made by these 24 Elders spoken from their own mouths in Rev 5:9 "...and hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation;"

All of the disciples and all of the Tribes/Patriarchs are of course of the stock of Israel. So there goes your ridiculous theory down the drain.

Read my words again, I said that weird notion is from bible commentaries, that's not my idea. Those 24 elders represent 24 priesthood divisions, of which Zechariah in Luke was the 8th. If you think that's still bizarre, then that's your problem, I have nothing else to say.

 

[Hitch]

The only ones who were left were those within the Ark -- (a type of Christ). Actually "taken" from Judgment. This pre-figures the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Enoch (a type of the Church) was raptured before the Flood, and Methuselah was taken from the earth just the month before the Flood began.

The Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are divine judgments on the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked. They have absolutely nothing to do with the saints of God.

All those exist today and always have, and you dont have a clue as to the reason for that judgement . But thats only because you take pains to ignore what Jesus actually said.

 

[cv5]

7 trumpets and 7 bowls happen in the same 3.5 year period, bowl judgements are just an escalated version of the trumpet judgements. Revelation is NOT written in chronological order, you've got your basics wrong. How could the bowl happen after the trumpets when Christ's kingdom is ALREADY declared in the 7th trumpet?



Read my words again, I said that weird notion is from bible commentaries, that's not my idea. Those 24 elders represent 24 priesthood divisions, of which Zechariah in Luke was the 8th. If you think that's still bizarre, then that's your problem, I have nothing else to say.

There is absolutely no doubt that PORTIONS of the book of Revelation are definitely written chronologically and in sequence. Other portions are "summary" or "commentary" missives.....which are entirely necessary and serve a crucial purpose.

You should know this by now. Everybody should.

 

[cv5]

The Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are divine judgments on the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked. They have absolutely nothing to do with the saints of God.

Absolutely no doubt about that.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

There is absolutely no doubt that PORTIONS of the book of Revelation are definitely written chronologically and in sequence. Other portions are "summary" or "commentary" missives.....which are entirely necessary and serve a crucial purpose.

You should know this by now. Everybody should.

Again, Christ's kingdom is ALREADY declared in the 7th trumpet in Rev. 11:15:

"Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

Therefore it's impossible to have the two beasts, the 7 bowls, the Babylon whore and everything else after that. The only explanation is that trumpets and bowls are in the same period. Revelation is NOT narrated in chronological order. This 3.5 period mentioned FIVE times from chapter 11 to 13, and then the time period of 5 months mentioned 2 times, does that mean the great tribulation is gonna last 18 years plus 4 months - even though Jesus said it would be cut short for the sake of the elect?

 

[Hitch]

Any one know what great crime brought on great tribulation ?

 

[cv5]

Again, Christ's kingdom is ALREADY declared in the 7th trumpet in Rev. 11:15:

"Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

Therefore it's impossible to have the two beasts, the 7 bowls, the Babylon whore and everything else after that. The only explanation is that trumpets and bowls are in the same period. Revelation is NOT narrated in chronological order. This 3.5 period mentioned FIVE times from chapter 11 to 13, and then the time period of 5 months mentioned 2 times, does that mean the great tribulation is gonna last 18 years plus 4 months - even though Jesus said it would be cut short for the sake of the elect?

The heptadic STUCTURE and pattern of the seals, trumpets and bowls (and the concomitant increase in severity of judgments) is an extremely well understood phenomenon. And the flow is unquestionably sequential in nature.

Your batting average is in the pits my friend. For pity's sake try and get a grip on what's going on here.

 

[cv5]

Any one know what great crime brought on great tribulation ?

Satanic/angelic rebellion and the fall of Man. Easy answer.