The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ P.P.S. Since God went to great lengths (so to speak) to fill His Word with vast and meticulous details... I tend to believe that ALL of them *are* important... and many of them actually touch on this present Subject (of "rapture-timing"), impacting and affecting our "understanding" (as it should)

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm not referring to His "death and burial" (and days bodily in the grave).

It is difficult to figure out what you are referring to.

I'm referring to His "I ASCEND [active]" He said to MM after His RESURRECTION (Jn20:17), at which point He then ASCENDED (THAT VERY DAY, ON FIRSTFRUIT, Lev23:10-12)

What? You mean Christ ascended way back in Lev 23:10??? How does that work, exactly?

For the life of me, I do not understand why so many people quote or cite OT verses when explaining end times.

... and then came back DOWN to the earth and was then in the presence of His disciples (LATE that SAME EVENING), when the doors were shut/locked (Jn20:19) yet ye entered the room to be in their midst (saying "Touch Me and see for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as ye see Me having "- Luke 24:39)

First, this verse doesn't support your presumption that Jesus left earth and came back down to earth "late that same evening".

Second, please include verses when claiming facts. How else will anyone believe you?

 

[FreeGrace2]

^ P.S. (regarding one of @FreeGrace2 's points) I believe 1 Peter 3:19-20, where it says, "19 in whom He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. [...],"

... that it refers to Jesus having gone IN SPIRIT ["in WHOM"--that is, via the HOLY SPIRIT] back in Noah's day to PREACH THEN, to the spirits [of the disobedient persons specifically IN NOAH'S DAY!!] who are NOW in prison [i.e. they perished in the flood] (not that He did this during the 3 days His BODY was in the grave...

How many scholars have this view? I've never read of any.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

What? You mean Christ ascended way back in Lev 23:10??? How does that work, exactly?

No, I'm saying that His RESURRECTION DAY when He said (to MM) "I ASCEND [active]" (and then DID SO, that VERY DAY)... that it was ON "FIRSTFRUIT" (the VERY day on the calendar that Lev23:10-12 is talking about)

 

[FreeGrace2]

^ P.P.S. Since God went to great lengths (so to speak) to fill His Word with vast and meticulous details... I tend to believe that ALL of them *are* important... and many of them actually touch on this present Subject (of "rapture-timing"), impacting and affecting our "understanding" (as it should)

Of course what IS in the Bible IS important.

My point was that details LEFT OUT are NOT important. At least, enough to have an argument over.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
What? You mean Christ ascended way back in Lev 23:10??? How does that work, exactly?

No, I'm saying that His RESURRECTION DAY when He said (to MM) "I ASCEND [active]" (and then DID SO, that VERY DAY)... that it was ON "FIRSTFRUIT" (the VERY day on the calendar that Lev23:10-12 is talking about)

So what? What does it matter that Jesus told MM that He will ascend "on fristfruit"?

1 Cor 15:23 describes the resurrection of Jesus as "first fruit" BECAUSE He was the FIRST person to get a glorified body.

But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

Not difficult at all.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

How many scholars have this view? I've never read of any.

Well, in past posts I put Gaebelein's Commentary on this passage... and I'm certain he's NOT THE ONLY ONE!!

I'm sure I've put it in threads on this topic, quoted out a LARGE SECTION of it for all to see (highlighting the pertinent points)... oh, yeah, I recall you only breeze past LENGTHY posts... so it's understandable that you've "never read of any" (I see!)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

So what? What does it matter that Jesus told MM that He will ascend "on fristfruit"?

Coz He ASCENDED the VERY DAY of His RESURRECTION (on "FIRSTFRUIT" i.e. THAT DAY)... and then came back down later that same day (to the earth ), late in the day



(yet, you are saying He ONLY EVER "comes to the earth" TWICE: His "FIRST advent" and His "SECOND advent" according to men's labels)

 

[Hitch]

You don't believe the rapture is possible?

Popular rapture schemes are silly, unscriptural and unnecessary.
They are based on two wormy pillars. The first is they are nothing more than pandering to men desperate to have even the slightest chance to cheat death. The second and far more destructive is the out right dismissal of Christ's Lordship in history, some carry this nonsense to the point of setting the 'kingdom in abeyance' , Jesus is King today and there is nothing in heaven or earth that can add to His royalty, power or authority.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

"know ye not that WE SHALL JUDGE ANGELS?" 1Cor6:3,[14]... some do not believe this will be the case.

(NOR believe that "Satan and his angels" will be "cast out UNTO THE EARTH" at the MID-point of the future Trib period, when there are "1260 days" yet remaining until Christ's Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19; Wonder what the "THRONES" are for, in Rev4-5??)

 

[Hitch]

While you loudly proclaim your love and reverence for Christ I strongly suggest you pause and consider you take the time to compare what Jesus actually said about the 'rapture' and what He actually said about the resurection.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Well, let me just say (for starters) that the word "resurrection" (which means "to stand again") should not be conflated with the word "glorification"...

IOW, when Acts 24:15 states that "there shall be resurrection... of the just and of the unjust"... it is NOT saying "glorification"




[for the readers (again): 1Cor15:23 says, "[re: resurrection] but EACH [a word that means 'OF MORE THAN TWO'] in his own ORDER / RANK" (which means there is an ORDER / RANK to it, and that there doesn't yet remain ONLY ONE, at ONE POINT IN TIME)... this requires us to seek out "understanding" of just what the passage is conveying...]




Are the "2W' shown "to stand again" (after having DIED)?? Yes! (At the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe" at a time-slot completely DISTINCT!!)

 

[ewq1938]

^ Well, let me just say (for starters) that the word "resurrection" (which means "to stand again") should not be conflated with the word "glorification"...

You are wrong because at the resurrection is when people receive a glorified body.

 

[Hitch]

You are wrong because at the resurrection is when people receive a glorified body.

Ok What are you responding to ?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You are wrong because at the resurrection is when people receive a glorified body.

Do you believe the "2W" will be resurrected (which means [/ is DEFINED as] "to stand again" after having physically DIED)? I do. Revelation 11:9,11



[and this is at the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe"... at a time-slot completely DISTINCT from when ALL OTHERS will be! WHY?!?! And note: I've stated before that I see a difference in the texts stating "the resurrection" and simply "resurrection" (which latter use does not LIMIT it to ONE POINT IN TIME)--can you consider that Paul was given something TO DISLOSE which hadn't yet been up to that point??]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Jesus said (just before the Cross), "I have YET MANY THINGS to say unto you, BUT ye cannot bear them NOW; But WHEN..." (and those things were then RECORDED in SCRIPTURE *following* His Death/Resurrection... just like 1Cor2:10,16b says of them)

 

[Marilyn]

Popular rapture schemes are silly, unscriptural and unnecessary.
They are based on two wormy pillars. The first is they are nothing more than pandering to men desperate to have even the slightest chance to cheat death. The second and far more destructive is the out right dismissal of Christ's Lordship in history, some carry this nonsense to the point of setting the 'kingdom in abeyance' , Jesus is King today and there is nothing in heaven or earth that can add to His royalty, power or authority.

Hi Hitch,

However WHEN the Father sends Jesus to gather His Body, He then takes them to His own throne where He VISIBLY reigns with His Body. (Acts 3: 20 & 21, 1 Thess. 4: 13 - 17, Rev. 3: 21, Rev. 4: 1 - 4)

That is the appointed time for the restoration spoken by the old Testament Prophets, of restored visible rulership in the highest. (Ps. 110: 1& 2, Ps. 2: 6, Zech. 6: 13 etc)

 

[Hitch]

Hi Hitch,

However WHEN the Father sends Jesus to gather His Body, He then takes them to His own throne where He VISIBLY reigns with His Body. (Acts 3: 20 & 21, 1 Thess. 4: 13 - 17, Rev. 3: 21, Rev. 4: 1 - 4)

That is the appointed time for the restoration spoken by the old Testament Prophets, of restored visible rulership in the highest. (Ps. 110: 1& 2, Ps. 2: 6, Zech. 6: 13 etc)

Jesus claimed all the power and authority there is .

, of restored visible rulership in the highest I gather you cant quite accept His current position since you cant see Him , be assured His power is by no means limited by your sight.

 

[Hitch]

Hi Hitch,

However WHEN the Father sends Jesus to gather His Body, He then takes them to His own throne where He VISIBLY reigns with His Body. (Acts 3: 20 & 21, 1 Thess. 4: 13 - 17, Rev. 3: 21, Rev. 4: 1 - 4)

That is the appointed time for the restoration spoken by the old Testament Prophets, of restored visible rulership in the highest. (Ps. 110: 1& 2, Ps. 2: 6, Zech. 6: 13 etc)

10 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

The last enemy is death, death is destroyed by resurrection ,not before. So I cant imagine why you cited this passage. Nothing in this Psalm requires His being visible.

 

[ewq1938]

Do you believe the "2W" will be resurrected (which means [/ is DEFINED as] "to stand again" after having physically DIED)? I do. Revelation 11:9,11

Yes but this isn't what is being discussed. You deny there is a glorified body at the resurrection which is the resurrection after the 7th trump which excludes the 2W. We can discuss that later or in another thread but I want to focus on the one issue where you are clearly incorrect.