The New Apostolic Reformation

[NotmebutHim]

One of the early leaders (if not founders) of the NAR was C. Peter Wagner.

I've watched YouTube videos by Chris Rosebrough, Daniel Long and Steven Kozar and they've had a lot to say about Wagner and the NAR.

Their channels are: Fighting for the Faith, Longfortruth1 and The Messed Up Church, respectively.

Fun fact: Rosebrough, a Lutheran pastor, used to be part of the Latter Rain movement many years ago.

Justin Peters also mentions Wagner in his "Clouds Without Water" series.

 

[SophieT]

One of the early leaders (if not founders) of the NAR was C. Peter Wagner.

I've watched YouTube videos by Chris Rosebrough, Daniel Long and Steven Kozar and they've had a lot to say about Wagner and the NAR.

Their channels are: Fighting for the Faith, Longfortruth1 and The Messed Up Church, respectively.

Fun fact: Rosebrough, a Lutheran pastor, used to be part of the Latter Rain movement many years ago.

true

your thoughts on it if you care to discuss it?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Why are these people able to deceive so many?
Is it because some seem to always need some kind of supernatural experience in a worship service or in their personal fellowship with God?

The reason they're so successful, really, is people have stopped loving truth. They believe any new thing that comes down the pike.

 

[Edify]

I disagree with your last sentence because it paints with too broad a brush. if we are going to talk about judgement, I think we need to look to the leaders first who are leading the sheep astray. they are possibly hirelings and not true shepherds

The Falling Away is indeed a broad brushed judgment because it's one of the final judgment on the church.
The church receives this judgment first before the world because judgment begins at the House of God. This is what the Falling Away is about. Part of that judgment is them receiving teachers/leaders who will lead them away further from God. Every such judgment is a setup because it's God's plan to come to pass.

 

[NotmebutHim]

true

your thoughts on it if you care to discuss it?

I don't believe that it's Biblical.

One reason is that the NAR believes that God is still giving us "new revelation".

God still speaks to us, but He does that through the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that the Spirit would come and remind us of everything that Jesus told us. We have the Scriptures and there is no "new revelation". Instead, the Spirit gives us "illumination" on what the Word already says.

Members of the NAR (and other associated movements) claim to speak for God, but they violate various areas of Scripture, including Deuteronomy 18, Ezekiel 13 and 2 Peter 2.

 

[RichMan]

The Falling Away is indeed a broad brushed judgment because it's one of the final judgment on the church.
The church receives this judgment first before the world because judgment begins at the House of God. This is what the Falling Away is about. Part of that judgment is them receiving teachers/leaders who will lead them away further from God. Every such judgment is a setup because it's God's plan to come to pass.

I believe judgement is a result of the falling away.
The falling away is the rejection of truth as given in the Scripture.

 

[Lanolin]

this has nothing to do with the Reformation or any reformed church

I guess you just passed over the op

you are making jokes about something very serious

nope its age old and same principles at play, church must be broken so weve come along to fix it

when you know the truth all the other stuff is kind of noise and big hooha about nothing.

there are tonnes of book written by those so called new apostles and the majority of them end up being chucked in the bin.

 

[SophieT]

I don't believe that it's Biblical.

One reason is that the NAR believes that God is still giving us "new revelation".

God still speaks to us, but He does that through the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that the Spirit would come and remind us of everything that Jesus told us. We have the Scriptures and there is no "new revelation". Instead, the Spirit gives us "illumination" on what the Word already says.

Members of the NAR (and other associated movements) claim to speak for God, but they violate various areas of Scripture, including Deuteronomy 18, Ezekiel 13 and 2 Peter 2.

agree

'new revelations' that have no basis in scripture are leading the way

 

[NotmebutHim]

Funny thing is, the NAR claims to have more respect for the Holy Spirit than non-NAR people. However, they show absolute disrespect toward Him by their actions. And by the definition in Exodus 20, they take (or carry) the Lord's name in vain.

 

[ResidentAlien]

nope its age old and same principles at play, church must be broken so weve come along to fix it

It has nothing to do with the body being broken. It's about a counterfeit masquerading as the true body.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The basic claim is that the leaders of this movement have the power and authority to execute God's plans and purposes on earth and in fact, are the only ones who can do this.

Pure delusion. Just ignore them.

 

[SophieT]

Pure delusion. Just ignore them.

it is much too late for me to ignore them

you know, I don't think ignoring what is going on around us and in the church especially, is the way to go

I appreciate your posts though. yes it is delusion...dangerous and damnable delusion

 

[SophieT]

Funny thing is, the NAR claims to have more respect for the Holy Spirit than non-NAR people. However, they show absolute disrespect toward Him by their actions. And by the definition in Exodus 20, they take (or carry) the Lord's name in vain.

whatever is leading them much of the time, is not holy. and I am not afraid to say it

 

[SophieT]

It is proof that there is nothing new under the sun. There have always been things that distract from the teaching of the simple truth of the Gospel.

right

much of the NT was written for correction and to rebuff error

nothing has changed....but the intensity of the error is pushing out and mocking what is true

do this many really have such itching ears?

 

[SomeDisciple]

Anything that is a "reformation" or "restoration"... Sorry, the church can't be "re"-formed or "restored". How can you reform or restore something that was never un-formed or abolished?

 

[SophieT]

Why are these people able to deceive so many?
Is it because some seem to always need some kind of supernatural experience in a worship service or in their personal fellowship with God?

people are being convinced by leadership that miracles will occur/be evident to show that Christianity is 'real'

I have had supernatural (so called) experiences myself....some good and some bad

Jesus said that if (speaking to His own people) that even if they did not believe in Him, believe the works....but that was Jesus...many are accepting anything if it happens in church...not understanding that the evil is showing up in people who, again, accept anything without discernment believing themselves to be unable to be fooled

I am super careful and skeptical before accepting because I have been deceived and that is not a place you want to be


37If I am not doing the works of My Father, then do not believe Me. 38But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe Me, believe the works themselves, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father.”

39At this, they tried again to seize Him, but He escaped their grasp. John 10

 

[SophieT]

Anything that is a "reformation" or "restoration"... Sorry, the church can't be "re"-formed or "restored". How can you reform or restore something that was never un-formed or abolished?

good point

the belief is that God is restoring certain offices...interestingly, those of what would be considered those who lead

even a superficial observation like that should make a person pause. should...but it's like the story of the frog who is in a pot in cold water to begin with and even as the water heats up, he does not struggle and is cooked, because the change was gradual

 

[SophieT]

The reason they're so successful, really, is people have stopped loving truth. They believe any new thing that comes down the pike.

scripture agrees

…9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. 11For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie,…II Thessalonians 2

 

[PennEd]

Funny thing is, the NAR claims to have more respect for the Holy Spirit than non-NAR people. However, they show absolute disrespect toward Him by their actions. And by the definition in Exodus 20, they take (or carry) the Lord's name in vain.

Here’s their idea of respecting the Holy Spirit:

 

[oyster67]

Here’s their idea of respecting the Holy Spirit:

Poor girl. She will be sooooo embarrassed about all this when she grows up.