The Prostitute

[JohnDB]

Now prostitutes are mentioned a lot in the Old Testament.
And of course it means exactly that mostly.

BUT
This is done in the Hebrew language. Hebrew is a metaphoric language with multiple meanings in every instance.
So let's look further for a fuller meaning. Prostitution itself is a sin of adultery. Fornication also is a subset of this sin. And if God was concerned about two people having skin contact even greeting others with the customary kiss or handshake would be sinful. But we do know better than to make that a sin.

So let's look at the concept of prostitution a bit more.

A hug, a handshake, a greeting kiss feels nice. So the pleasure of this isn't exactly a sin either. Why would God say that sex outside the bounds of marriage is a sin? That is the question for today amongst the unbelieving population.

It has been noted in scripture many times about "hard hearts". And I believe that this is the crucial element of this particular sin. There's been extensive discussions concerning the scriptures surrounding Pharaoh and how he hardened his own heart... until the day came that God did it for him.

A prostitute has words dripping with honey. But engaging in physical intimacy with a prostitute hardens your heart about physical intimacy. Creating a callousness that is impossible to recover from. Lust is a never satisfied beast...and orgasms don't fulfill the desire.
Love and acceptance fullfil the desire for sex...not just the act of sex with someone who is making a business transaction.

So obviously as we look at this sin closer...the thing that a caring person would care about is the self harm that casual sex causes. And God cares about us infinitely more than anyone else.

Can anyone be a metaphorical prostitute while being chaste?

ABSOLUTELY!

If you invite, incite, or encourage others to have insensitivities towards others based upon whatever reason...that's prostitution too. And that's the core of political discussions and following most theology systems.

Whatcha think?
Am I all wet? Am I far off the beaten path? Or did I just drop a bag of bricks on your head?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I apologize, but I don't think that I'm intelligent enough to follow your point. That's on me, as I don't think that I'm inputting enough time to track the ideology. What did stand out, though, is the idea of one hardening their own heart.

What does it mean to "harden" your own heart? Is it the same "thing" as God hardening a person's heart? Certainly, when the Lord hardens a person heart, this is a statement that God has assumed control over the way a person thinks, thus has an impact on the choices one makes, such as Pharoah, as you modeled above. So again, when Scripture reads of a person hardening their own heart, does it really equate to what the Lord is doing to certain people, such as Pharoah? Can we harden the heart of another as does the Lord? No. It doesn't seem reasonable or logical that when a person hardens their heart that it is equivalent to the Lord hardening a person's heart.

Therefore, if what I am offering is true (and it may certainly be false), I would say that a person who resorts to interactions with a prostitute already has a heart that has been hardened, or, turned over to Satan (as one might put it). Certainly, to engage in habitual prostitution is not a part of the Mind of Christ, but the Mind of the Devil. Therefore, how does one decide that he/she possess the Mind of the Devil? We do not have this kind or form of control over our thinking . . . it has been determined, for all are under the Curse of Sin and Death. We are born this way . . . born to initially serve the Devil, for all of creation is under such a Curse until Redeemed by our Powerful God, Jesus.

Can anyone be a metaphorical prostitute while being chaste?

Absolutely. This is what a person is until they have been Redeemed of the Curse of the Lord. All are in a state of metaphorical prostitution until they have received the Circumcision of Christ. A classic example of metaphorical prostitution is below:

Matthew 7:21-23 CSB - "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. "On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, drive out demons in your name, and do many miracles in your name? ' "Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you lawbreakers! '

Why were they considered Lawbreakers? Because they have not received the Circumcision of Christ which would have separated them from the Law. Until a person has been separated from the Law and thereby living by the Laws of the Spirit of Life, that person is a metaphorical prostitute.

Just my thoughts . . .

 

[JohnDB]

I apologize, but I don't think that I'm intelligent enough to follow your point. That's on me, as I don't think that I'm inputting enough time to track the ideology. What did stand out, though, is the idea of one hardening their own heart.

What does it mean to "harden" your own heart? Is it the same "thing" as God hardening a person's heart? Certainly, when the Lord hardens a person heart, this is a statement that God has assumed control over the way a person thinks, thus has an impact on the choices one makes, such as Pharoah, as you modeled above. So again, when Scripture reads of a person hardening their own heart, does it really equate to what the Lord is doing to certain people, such as Pharoah? Can we harden the heart of another as does the Lord? No. It doesn't seem reasonable or logical that when a person hardens their heart that it is equivalent to the Lord hardening a person's heart.

Therefore, if what I am offering is true (and it may certainly be false), I would say that a person who resorts to interactions with a prostitute already has a heart that has been hardened, or, turned over to Satan (as one might put it). Certainly, to engage in habitual prostitution is not a part of the Mind of Christ, but the Mind of the Devil. Therefore, how does one decide that he/she possess the Mind of the Devil? We do not have this kind or form of control over our thinking . . . it has been determined, for all are under the Curse of Sin and Death. We are born this way . . . born to initially serve the Devil, for all of creation is under such a Curse until Redeemed by our Powerful God, Jesus.



Absolutely. This is what a person is until they have been Redeemed of the Curse of the Lord. All are in a state of metaphorical prostitution until they have received the Circumcision of Christ. A classic example of metaphorical prostitution is below:

Matthew 7:21-23 CSB - "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. "On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, drive out demons in your name, and do many miracles in your name? ' "Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you lawbreakers! '

Why were they considered Lawbreakers? Because they have not received the Circumcision of Christ which would have separated them from the Law. Until a person has been separated from the Law and thereby living by the Laws of the Spirit of Life, that person is a metaphorical prostitute.

Just my thoughts . . .

The prostitute is all about the enticement and encouragement to harden your own heart.

Now when God hardened Pharaoh's heart it was about making him an example of an object of wrath. Pharaoh was regularly hardening his own heart of his own free will. (And likely would continue to do so without any intervention on God's part)

"So God gave them over to a reprobate mind"...
Meaning that these people did the same as Pharaoh as explained by Paul.

But it's the use of enticing and sweet sounding words to others to get them to harden their hearts which make the person the prostitute. Maybe even scratching your itching ears....(telling you what you want to hear)

Holiness is only partially controlling your actions...it's also heavily involved with your relationships with others. There is no depth of relationship with a prostitute...it's a business transaction. The prostitute has no feelings of even mild admiration towards their customers. It's about the customer's money.

And as a customer has engagements with a prostitute they harden their own heart... choosing to believe a lie instead of the truth. But that choice has more consequences than just an attitude towards the prostitute. It carries over into their entire lives coloring every relationship with others they have.

 

[Blik]

Sex is not skin contact with others. God gave six to make two people into one. If it is used for any other reason it is not true sex as the Lord created it.

True sex is the basis of our society. Married sex creates families that create townships that create counties that create nations.

 

[Dino246]

If you invite, incite, or encourage others to have insensitivities towards others based upon whatever reason...that's prostitution too. And that's the core of political discussions and following most theology systems.

I don't agree with the bolded assertion. Perhaps you could explain it more thoroughly.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The prostitute is all about the enticement and encouragement to harden your own heart.

Now when God hardened Pharaoh's heart it was about making him an example of an object of wrath. Pharaoh was regularly hardening his own heart of his own free will. (And likely would continue to do so without any intervention on God's part)

"So God gave them over to a reprobate mind"...
Meaning that these people did the same as Pharaoh as explained by Paul.

But it's the use of enticing and sweet sounding words to others to get them to harden their hearts which make the person the prostitute. Maybe even scratching your itching ears....(telling you what you want to hear)

Holiness is only partially controlling your actions...it's also heavily involved with your relationships with others. There is no depth of relationship with a prostitute...it's a business transaction. The prostitute has no feelings of even mild admiration towards their customers. It's about the customer's money.

And as a customer has engagements with a prostitute they harden their own heart... choosing to believe a lie instead of the truth. But that choice has more consequences than just an attitude towards the prostitute. It carries over into their entire lives coloring every relationship with others they have.

Alrighty. Well, I appreciate these new ideas (to my mind). I don't quite follow, but I don't suppose that I must. I do like hearing of new ideas, though.

 

[JohnDB]

I don't agree with the bolded assertion. Perhaps you could explain it more thoroughly.

The old feigned animosity between Baptists and Methodists is an example.

Baptists encouraging their fellow denominational brothers and sisters to view the Methodist as something less than Christian and enemies of the Gospel. Those Baptists who engage in encouraging others to view them as such are prostitutes....

That's what I intended by that statement.

 

[Dino246]

The old feigned animosity between Baptists and Methodists is an example.

Baptists encouraging their fellow denominational brothers and sisters to view the Methodist as something less than Christian and enemies of the Gospel. Those Baptists who engage in encouraging others to view them as such are prostitutes....

That's what I intended by that statement.

I still disagree (strongly).

The prostitute's (usual) primary motivation is not to get the client to harden his heart, but to open his wallet. In the process, his heart is hardened (as is hers). Your exemplary Baptists are actually trying to get others to treat a third party as inferior; there is no business transaction, and no unrighteous satisfaction of biological impulse. I simply don't see how they are in any way related.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Those Baptists who engage in encouraging others to view them as such are prostitutes....

I'm still not really following you. What would you say is the equivalency of prostitution in the above example? What are they doing that equates to the act of prostitution?

Edit - Maybe I'm getting it a little, here. How does encouraging one group of people to view another group in a specific way related to a prostitute engaging in sexual relations in exchange for something in return?

 

[Amanuensis]

The old feigned animosity between Baptists and Methodists is an example.

Baptists encouraging their fellow denominational brothers and sisters to view the Methodist as something less than Christian and enemies of the Gospel. Those Baptists who engage in encouraging others to view them as such are prostitutes....

That's what I intended by that statement.

Are you ok? Are you having a stroke?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Are you having a stroke?

Unlikely. Or, is this code-talk for something else that you want to say/ask?

 

[JaumeJ]

Most references to whoredom and whores in the Word refer to any who have known God and wandered away from Him, that is to words "dripping with honey."

The Great Whore of Revelations with names of blasphemy upon her body, and seated on seven hills is just this.

The Mother of whores. Now, who exactly are those? I believe I know but dare not say for it is not my place..

I do know our Fasther will call His true children out of her, and it stands to reason also out of her daughters.

As for what man calls a prostitute , they too are quite readily taken in by our Father as repented sinners, just lik you and I.

 

[JohnDB]

Are you ok? Are you having a stroke?

And what would you do if I was?
(I'm not)
This is an explanation that goes beyond the normal stuff you hear coming from the pulpit because of the subject matter.

 

[JohnDB]

Most references to whoredom and whores in the Word refer to any who have known God and wandered away from Him, that is to words "dripping with honey."

The Great Whore of Revelations with names of blasphemy upon her body, and seated on seven hills is just this.

The Mother of whores. Now, who exactly are those? I believe I know but dare not say for it is not my place..

I do know our Fasther will call His true children out of her, and it stands to reason also out of her daughters.

As for what man calls a prostitute , they too are quite readily taken in by our Father as repented sinners, just lik you and I.

And I do find that reference fascinating.
The "church" is customarily telling people to repent and to soften their hearts. But in this case it seems to be just the opposite.

 

[JohnDB]

I still disagree (strongly).

The prostitute's (usual) primary motivation is not to get the client to harden his heart, but to open his wallet. In the process, his heart is hardened (as is hers). Your exemplary Baptists are actually trying to get others to treat a third party as inferior; there is no business transaction, and no unrighteous satisfaction of biological impulse. I simply don't see how they are in any way related.

Well at least you ARE understanding the metaphor.

That's all I was wanting.
Carry on saying how horrible I am at explaining it.
Perhaps you can do better.

 

[Dino246]

Well at least you ARE understanding the metaphor.

That's all I was wanting.
Carry on saying how horrible I am at explaining it.
Perhaps you can do better.

It is not my intention at all to say how horrible you are in any sense; that would be a personal attack, and I have neither intent nor need to attack you. Your ideas, however, are fair game.

 

[JohnDB]

It is not my intention at all to say how horrible you are in any sense; that would be a personal attack, and I have neither intent nor need to attack you. Your ideas, however, are fair game.

Just like Methodist ideas? Or Baptist ideas?

 

[Dino246]

Just like Methodist ideas? Or Baptist ideas?

Yup... I'm an equal-opportunity offender.

 

[Aaron56]

I think I get what you're saying. A lot of scripture comes to mind.

Even the first union between a man and a woman was for something greater than just procreation and companionship. Today, by revelation in the NT, we know that the primary reason for marriage is to demonstrate, in time and space, Christ's love for the church. By extension, "it is not good for Christ to be alone". This is not because He lacked anything, but because His presence in the earth demanded a companion who is in likeness and kind to Himself. This was the assurance of God's love for us in that He established a standard of relationship for The Son that only He could fulfill. Furthermore, because His intent was to have humans become the Bride, the work of redemption was sealed as absolute: The Living God would have to make a way for us. This is not an obligation toward us; this is an obligation that He, Himself, established for Christ. Like many thing, we are simply a 3rd party beneficiary of the grace of God.

This is why prostitution is so vile: it assuages the void between Christ and the Bride by lying signs. It plays to the longing the spirits of men have for the Husband but it is a poor imitation that only brings destruction.

 

[JohnDB]

I think I get what you're saying. A lot of scripture comes to mind.

Even the first union between a man and a woman was for something greater than just procreation and companionship. Today, by revelation in the NT, we know that the primary reason for marriage is to demonstrate, in time and space, Christ's love for the church. By extension, "it is not good for Christ to be alone". This is not because He lacked anything, but because His presence in the earth demanded a companion who is in likeness and kind to Himself. This was the assurance of God's love for us in that He established a standard of relationship for The Son that only He could fulfill. Furthermore, because His intent was to have humans become the Bride, the work of redemption was sealed as absolute: The Living God would have to make a way for us. This is not an obligation toward us; this is an obligation that He, Himself, established for Christ. Like many thing, we are simply a 3rd party beneficiary of the grace of God.

This is why prostitution is so vile: it assuages the void between Christ and the Bride by lying signs. It plays to the longing the spirits of men have for the Husband but it is a poor imitation that only brings destruction.

There is a LOT of scripture covering this.
It all dovetails into this concept of how we miss the boat in so many ways.