Are you watching for the Lord ???

[Blain]

In previous comments I’ve demonstrated with scripture that Christians are not exempt from tribulations and hardships, up to and including martyrdom. It has nothing to do with one’s alleged state of righteousness and the great tribulation occurs before the day of the Lord. I’d be more than happy to have that discussion here with anyone who is reachable, open, and not obstinate.

I don’t recall telling you anything about “where the carcass is the vultures will gather” mentioned in Matt. 24. I don’t agree with the interpretation you are putting forth either.

The vultures at the carcass, I believe, is a reference to the “supper of the great God” mentioned in Revelation 19 where Jesus returns to fight war with the beast and false prophet. This is post-trib rapture day of the Lord material and has nothing to do with the tribulation. I think where you and someone else is confused in this thread is that you have mistaken the great tribulation for God’s wrath.

I would be interested to know what your understanding would be on a certain matter of the church in the tribulation, Seee while I may believe in a pre trib or at the very least a prewrath rapture I also do not leave no room to be wrong and would if need be more than be willing to go through the tribulation for his sake after all I did tell him I wanted to serve him in this time and that I didn't seek to be strong for my sake. Now on that note it is my understanding that if the church were to be in the tribulation we would not be alone and would be spirit filled as they were in the book of acts and so on as bible prophecy often foreshadows itself not only that but I have felt and apparently many others as well have said a great outpouring or anointing is coming now I cannot vouch for anyone else only what I have sensed.

Then earlier this week I had a dream that I was in the tribulation I didn't know if I had missed the rapture or if it had even happened I was watching myself from a third person perspective and was wondering this to myself as I was watching myself, I saw that I was different I was liike a mighty warrior I was filled to the brim with the power and spirit of God and was doing mighty works in God's name and for his will and purpose all who came against me could not stand a man who I did not know came running at me to kill me and before he could get to me a powerful voice commanded him to kneel and he did I didn't really enjoy this but the voice commanded it so I accepted it and then the sky opened up and God's love came shooting down like a beam into me from the sky without limit.

The reason I tell you all this is because I am wondering if say the church is to go through the tribulation will we be doing such thiings working in such ways? Am I correcting is thinking that the book of acts was a foreshadow of what is to come?

 

[Rosemaryx]

Every day I wait for our Lord...
Not just waiting for His appearing in the clouds , because we know other things have to happen before His second coming , but every day I wait for Him because I never know the day He will call me home , so may all be well with my soul ...
...xox...

 

[The_Unnamed_Servent]

In previous comments I’ve demonstrated with scripture that Christians are not exempt from tribulations and hardships, up to and including martyrdom. It has nothing to do with one’s alleged state of righteousness and the great tribulation occurs before the day of the Lord. I’d be more than happy to have that discussion here with anyone who is reachable, open, and not obstinate.

I don’t recall telling you anything about “where the carcass is the vultures will gather” mentioned in Matt. 24. I don’t agree with the interpretation you are putting forth either.

The vultures at the carcass, I believe, is a reference to the “supper of the great God” mentioned in Revelation 19 where Jesus returns to fight war with the beast and false prophet. This is post-trib rapture day of the Lord material and has nothing to do with the tribulation. I think where you and someone else is confused in this thread is that you have mistaken the great tribulation for God’s wrath.

My rebuttal towards you was due to name-calling Omegatime as ("a Darby cultist"). If your paying attention, you'd know that my view on the subject more closely aligns with yours. Keep in mind, many ppl abandon threads/conversations that break down into shouting matches like red vs blue. Don't be a hothead.

In previous posts (including part of the one you're quoting), I mentioned The man of sin/The Great Tribulation/The Falling away occurring before the rapture; with God's judgment soon to follow.

Satan rising to power/The Great Falling Away/The Great Tribulation MUST come first. Once these are fulfilled and only then does the Lord's coming become imminent and can happen at any time. At that point, no one knows the timing and the anti-christ will further confuse the days and times in some way. Many refer to this as a Pre-Wrath Rapture since Satan's temptation isn't God's Judgement/Wrath. Satan is used merely as a tool to test and refine our faith and trust even to the point of death if needed (much like Christ with God's Will).

My comment about the vultures was a response of personal revelation pointed to Omegatime's mentioning of shedding the body because flesh and blood can't come into Heaven. In scripture, this comment ("Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered” ) is made as a reference to the rapture see Luke 17:34-37 and Matthew 24:27-31 where it occurs word for word. In those chapters, Jesus was giving a metaphor about His coming. Make note that He just finished discussing Tribulation prior to this. Also notice that He ends the discussion at gathering the saints from Heaven/Earth making no mention here of the feast for the birds/victory of Armageddon from Rev. 19

If by "Supper of the Great God" you mean the wedding feast of the Lamb, then yes, I would agree that that is the purpose for the gathering. But in Rev. 19 the angels are gathering the birds to devour corpses of sinners with the armies of the earth at Armageddon. Not what the Lord mentions in Matt. or Luke where He's clearly collecting His bride (the Church/Saints/Elect). There are birds but no vultures specifically mentioned here. I can see why you may think that but there's no strong connection here.

Glance over the scriptures that I mentioned (like I did for your post) otherwise you won't see my point.

 

[Runningman]

I would be interested to know what your understanding would be on a certain matter of the church in the tribulation, Seee while I may believe in a pre trib or at the very least a prewrath rapture I also do not leave no room to be wrong and would if need be more than be willing to go through the tribulation for his sake after all I did tell him I wanted to serve him in this time and that I didn't seek to be strong for my sake. Now on that note it is my understanding that if the church were to be in the tribulation we would not be alone and would be spirit filled as they were in the book of acts and so on as bible prophecy often foreshadows itself not only that but I have felt and apparently many others as well have said a great outpouring or anointing is coming now I cannot vouch for anyone else only what I have sensed.

Then earlier this week I had a dream that I was in the tribulation I didn't know if I had missed the rapture or if it had even happened I was watching myself from a third person perspective and was wondering this to myself as I was watching myself, I saw that I was different I was liike a mighty warrior I was filled to the brim with the power and spirit of God and was doing mighty works in God's name and for his will and purpose all who came against me could not stand a man who I did not know came running at me to kill me and before he could get to me a powerful voice commanded him to kneel and he did I didn't really enjoy this but the voice commanded it so I accepted it and then the sky opened up and God's love came shooting down like a beam into me from the sky without limit.

The reason I tell you all this is because I am wondering if say the church is to go through the tribulation will we be doing such thiings working in such ways? Am I correcting is thinking that the book of acts was a foreshadow of what is to come?

Wow that’s a powerful dream and thanks for sharing. I am sure experiencing this dream was much more amazing than words can describe.

Well, being prepared to suffer persecution, tribulation, and hardship for the cause of Christ is actually considered a great honor in the Bible and is not something meant for only special super Christians to endure. All Christians should be to the point where they are persecuted, whether by people or forces of evil, because of their faith in Christ. Jesus said if you’re persecuted for righteousness sake then you’re blessed. If you suffer like Christ then you’re blessed. If you die for your faith you’re blessed.

Basically if you face resistance for being a Christian then you’re doing it right.

The great tribulation is going to be more like a great filter that separates the nominal Christians from the real ones.

 

[Runningman]

My rebuttal towards you was due to name-calling Omegatime as ("a Darby cultist"). If your paying attention, you'd know that my view on the subject more closely aligns with yours. Keep in mind, many ppl abandon threads/conversations that break down into shouting matches like red vs blue. Don't be a hothead.

In previous posts (including part of the one you're quoting), I mentioned The man of sin/The Great Tribulation/The Falling away occurring before the rapture; with God's judgment soon to follow.



My comment about the vultures was a response of personal revelation pointed to Omegatime's mentioning of shedding the body because flesh and blood can't come into Heaven. In scripture, this comment ("Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered” ) is made as a reference to the rapture see Luke 17:34-37 and Matthew 24:27-31 where it occurs word for word. In those chapters, Jesus was giving a metaphor about His coming. Make note that He just finished discussing Tribulation prior to this. Also notice that He ends the discussion at gathering the saints from Heaven/Earth making no mention here of the feast for the birds/victory of Armageddon from Rev. 19

If by "Supper of the Great God" you mean the wedding feast of the Lamb, then yes, I would agree that that is the purpose for the gathering. But in Rev. 19 the angels are gathering the birds to devour corpses of sinners with the armies of the earth at Armageddon. Not what the Lord mentions in Matt. or Luke where He's clearly collecting His bride (the Church/Saints/Elect). There are birds but no vultures specifically mentioned here. I can see why you may think that but there's no strong connection here.

Glance over the scriptures that I mentioned (like I did for your post) otherwise you won't see my point.

In Luke 17:34-37 and Matthew 24:27-31 Christ returns and there’s going to be birds where the corpses are. In Revelation 19:17-18 Christ returns and there are birds where the corpses are. That’s certainly a strong connection if there ever was one.

The quote “where the body is, there the vultures will be” is a reference to the corpses of deceased sinners who were slain by God, I agree. That’s a bit of a reference to the day of the Lord that occurs after the return of Christ. Matthew 24:36-41 compares the return of Christ to the great flood that killed almost everyone on planet earth. That’s God’s wrath on all people of the world.

Now look again at Revelation 19…

Revelation 19:17-18
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Once you see that the supper of the great God is a feast for all birds of the air on all sinners then you can’t unsee it. This supper of the great God is not the wedding supper of the Lamb. The wedding supper of the Lamb is for the church and it’s an exclusive event that doesn’t include destroying wicked people.

When Christ returns it will be characterized by this consistent theme shown below:

2 Thess. 1:7-9
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

[The_Unnamed_Servent]

The path you have chosen to find truth is what each of us needs to do. My first suggestion is to know the Lord. Was not all things created by the Lord Yeshus/Jesus? Was He not the great I Am before Abraham was . was He not the Word of God who taught the prophets? Knowledge is the key to understand God. Jesus was preeminence in all things. In this world we will have tribulations and hardships. But does not our Lord know how to keep his people safe from Judgement? Consider Noah and Lot; the Lord was not committed to the destruction of the world or the cities in the plains if even one righteous person remained.

The word here is, "Judgement." Wasn't God's judgment on the world (Noah's day) and on Sodom/Gomorrah Biblical to say the least (flood that covered the world/a rain of burning sulfur). I hope there's no argument here; clearly, this was the Hand of God at work. But according to the prophets/apostles He has reserved the Earth for fire as His next "judgment."

7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly people. (2 Peter 3:7)

This judgment (according to Rev.) is being poured out on sinners but look and you'll see that Satan suffers in this same judgment. But the Lord removes His children from the world before He pours out His wrath on the unrepentant. Hear what Jesus says in Luke:

7 now, will God not bring about justice for His elect who cry out to Him day and night, and will He delay long for them? 8 I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?” (Luke 18:7-8).

How can Jesus question whether or not there will be any faith on the earth unless all the faithful are already gone when He arrives? Reaccouring in scripture, He always preserves a remnant. So I suspect that only a few will be physically alive when comes again. Surely you know, we in Christ have already defeated the grave. We are saved from the coming judgment.

You quoted 2/3 cut off in Zechariah which pertains to Israel alone.
Many will come to know the Lord in these last seven years, but the attention is on Israel and Jerusalem.
Putting each parable and event in the proper order is also key for all things are driven by time.
Most only read what is on the surface of scriptures

I was using Zechariah chapters 13-14 to show that in scripture there is indeed an order of operations to the coming of the Lord. This shows that a great suffering occurs first. The key to understanding this sequence is learning it from the Book of Revelation (the revelation of all things). The Lord guarantees an assured blessing from the reading of this book.

I am probably wasting my time coming here as most are locked into their particular beliefs. But knowing how to study and with prayer and patience is key. Take the doctrine of some churches who believe in this born again doctrine. If it was important why didn't Jesus mention it again?, or his Apostles, or their disciples, and in fact not even a mention in 1900 years within the church including those who came out of the reformation. Most laymen are not educated enough to understand what Jesus was actually saying. Only the beginning of many such stories.

I don't agree with some religious doctrine, but the born-again church doctrine is based on the biblical text, and it is covered by Jesus/Apostles. Recall His conversation with the Pharisee teacher Nicodemus/Peter's epistle to Christians in Asia minor:

3 Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a person be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which has been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which has been born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it is coming from and where it is going; so is everyone who has been born of the Spirit.” (John 3:3-8)

22 Since you have purified your souls in obedience to the truth for a sincere love of the brothers and sisters, fervently love one another from the heart, 23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For, “All flesh is like grass, And all its glory is like the flower of grass. The grass withers, And the flower falls off, 25 But the word of the Lord endures forever.” And this is the word which was preached to you. (1 Peter 22-25).

Speaking for myself, I'm not locked into any particular understanding. I showed before how knew thoughts can form a new revelation. There is scripture that supports your belief and I'd rather discuss that. But for me, any new understanding MUST come from and be founded on the rock which is His word.

Brother, Biblical scripture speaks directly to the soul/spirit. Without meditation/prayer for understanding, we will always confuse God's word. We depend on our intellect for knowledge but He wants us to humble ourselves and allow Him to form that understanding. Hold fast to His "word" and you can never go wrong.

God Bless!

 

[p_rehbein]

Regarding the question posed in the OP Title:

YES.

I try to live every day as if this will be the day the Eastern Sky splits!

Maranatha

 

[Blain]

Wow that’s a powerful dream and thanks for sharing. I am sure experiencing this dream was much more amazing than words can describe.

Well, being prepared to suffer persecution, tribulation, and hardship for the cause of Christ is actually considered a great honor in the Bible and is not something meant for only special super Christians to endure. All Christians should be to the point where they are persecuted, whether by people or forces of evil, because of their faith in Christ. Jesus said if you’re persecuted for righteousness sake then you’re blessed. If you suffer like Christ then you’re blessed. If you die for your faith you’re blessed.

Basically if you face resistance for being a Christian then you’re doing it right.

The great tribulation is going to be more like a great filter that separates the nominal Christians from the real ones.

Yes it is true words don't exactly do it justice I shared it because it has been pressing on my heart since I jad it and I have felt a calling having to do with these kinds of works being whispered to my heart though I am hesitant to listen to it yet I know it has to do with the end times but it doesn't seem to be just me either I feel God has set apart a chosen people to walk in his power and authority like in the days of old and that it will in fact be in the tribulation however in the dream if I could best describe the sense I got the church was gone the works were not done for the church it was not for the generation of the church that time had passed if that makes sense.

To be honest I am still trying to fit all the pieces together I have had many dreams and visions having to do with the end times many of which were the rapture the tribulation war and some of them were even images of the book of revelation in the form of moving paintings.

For intance the revelation 12
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:


2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.


3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.


4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.


7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.


9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I saw everything you read here it stopped at this part of the verse but they were moving paintings all at the beginning of this year I felt a very strong sense of seriousness about it. Normally I don't have dreams I have visions or am given a prophetic wrting to write down but he has been very out spoken in my dreams this year and I have to think there is a reason for it

 

[The_Unnamed_Servent]

Yes it is true words don't exactly do it justice I shared it because it has been pressing on my heart since I jad it and I have felt a calling having to do with these kinds of works being whispered to my heart though I am hesitant to listen to it yet I know it has to do with the end times but it doesn't seem to be just me either I feel God has set apart a chosen people to walk in his power and authority like in the days of old and that it will in fact be in the tribulation however in the dream if I could best describe the sense I got the church was gone the works were not done for the church it was not for the generation of the church that time had passed if that makes sense.

To be honest I am still trying to fit all the pieces together I have had many dreams and visions having to do with the end times many of which were the rapture the tribulation war and some of them were even images of the book of revelation in the form of moving paintings.

For intance the revelation 12
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:


2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.


3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.


4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.


7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.


9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I saw everything you read here it stopped at this part of the verse but they were moving paintings all at the beginning of this year I felt a very strong sense of seriousness about it. Normally I don't have dreams I have visions or am given a prophetic wrting to write down but he has been very out spoken in my dreams this year and I have to think there is a reason for it

Be encouraged, prophecy from the Holy Spirit should always be shared with the person/subject being witnessed. The trouble is decerning His voice from amongst all the noise. Brother Blain, would you consider starting a separate thread based on your dream and this passage. Like you said before many ppl are having dreams/visions these days and perhaps someone who better understands dreams can give you more understanding. I don't think your input can be truly appreciated buried here on page 3 of this thread. But I understand this is personal, so only if you want to.

 

[Blain]

Be encouraged, prophecy from the Holy Spirit should always be shared with the person/subject being witnessed. The trouble is decerning His voice from amongst all the noise. Brother Blain, would you consider starting a separate thread based on your dream and this passage. Like you said before many ppl are having dreams/visions these days and perhaps someone who better understands dreams can give you more understanding. I don't think your input can be truly appreciated buried here on page 3 of this thread. But I understand this is personal, so only if you want to.

Yes perhaps a different thread is best I don't wish to derail this one after all, I cannot be sure it will be recieved well whether that is because it falls into the pages of the bdf or people either turn it into a debate or even begin to attack but I have always found that when I am given these things it is always meant for someone you never know the impact you make by sharing.

 

[The_Unnamed_Servent]

Yes perhaps a different thread is best I don't wish to derail this one after all, I cannot be sure it will be recieved well whether that is because it falls into the pages of the bdf or people either turn it into a debate or even begin to attack but I have always found that when I am given these things it is always meant for someone you never know the impact you make by sharing.

Call me ignorant (and I would agree) but what does the acronym bdf mean?

 

[Omegatime]

Consider the scripture from Hebrews 9

28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

The Tribulation period starting in Rev. 6 deals with sins

And Daniel 9:24 “Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

The last seven years of this prophecy is to put an end to sins

One of many reasons I look forward to the coming of the Lord

 

[The_Unnamed_Servent]

Now we have something to talk about.

[Hebrews 9:28] I've thought about this before but this doesn't harmonize with everything else He says. There are ways around this but notice that in verse 27 He says that we must die once... But, instead consider the thought that on His first coming Jesus Christ died on the cross to break the power of sin and death. He no longer has to deal with it because "it is finished." His death made attonement and brought us sinners back into a relationship with God. We can now go to Him in prayer and there is no longer a vail to separate us.

And Daniel 9:24 “Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to 1 finish the transgression, to 2 put an end to sin, and to 3 atone for iniquity, to 4 bring in everlasting righteousness, to 5 seal both vision and prophet, and to 6 anoint a most holy place.

Forgive me for editing you words, but there are 6-7 things delt with in the 490 years prophecy from Daniel 9:24. Its more than just sin. These are each filled by messiah and I think of it as a checklist of what He has left to do.

1. [End transgression] I think this one is still left to complete. In 2 Thes 2:7. HS through Paul reveals there is still some great mystery of iniquity that remains.
2. & 3. [Put and end to sin] & [atone for sin] As I mentioned before Christ completed this on His first visit. If you disagree with that then you now have the burden of explaining what exactly did He accomplish with His death on the cross in regard to Dan 9:24
4. [Bring everlating righteousness] We can argue that this has also been acomplished. HS makes all those in Christ righteous in the eyes of the Lord. Although our complete salvation is unfufilled.
5. & 6. [Seal vision/prophet] & [Anoint the holy place/one] These are obviously incomplete. But all of prophecy must be fufilled. Even Jesus strived to complete all of what scriptures proclaimed.

We all look forward to His coming, no argument there, but I think we should be prepared for the worst and only hope for the best.

Can we discuss 2 Thes. 2:3? For me, this is the lenchpin that unravels pre-tribulation. If anyone can give a good understanding that doesn't contradict God's word then you might be on to something.

3 Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one destined for destruction. 2 Thes 2:3

 

[Omegatime]

Now we have something to talk about.

[Hebrews 9:28] I've thought about this before but this doesn't harmonize with everything else He says. There are ways around this but notice that in verse 27 He says that we must die once... But, instead consider the thought that on His first coming Jesus Christ died on the cross to break the power of sin and death. He no longer has to deal with it because "it is finished." His death made attonement and brought us sinners back into a relationship with God. We can now go to Him in prayer and there is no longer a vail to separate us.



Forgive me for editing you words, but there are 6-7 things delt with in the 490 years prophecy from Daniel 9:24. Its more than just sin. These are each filled by messiah and I think of it as a checklist of what He has left to do.

1. [End transgression] I think this one is still left to complete. In 2 Thes 2:7. HS through Paul reveals there is still some great mystery of iniquity that remains.
2. & 3. [Put and end to sin] & [atone for sin] As I mentioned before Christ completed this on His first visit. If you disagree with that then you now have the burden of explaining what exactly did He accomplish with His death on the cross in regard to Dan 9:24
4. [Bring everlating righteousness] We can argue that this has also been acomplished. HS makes all those in Christ righteous in the eyes of the Lord. Although our complete salvation is unfufilled.
5. & 6. [Seal vision/prophet] & [Anoint the holy place/one] These are obviously incomplete. But all of prophecy must be fufilled. Even Jesus strived to complete all of what scriptures proclaimed.

We all look forward to His coming, no argument there, but I think we should be prepared for the worst and only hope for the best.

Can we discuss 2 Thes. 2:3? For me, this is the lenchpin that unravels pre-tribulation. If anyone can give a good understanding that doesn't contradict God's word then you might be on to something.

3 Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one destined for destruction. 2 Thes 2:3

I would have to disagree that the Lord put an end to sin in his first coming; his covenant provided redemption from sin and freedom from the Mosaic covenant. Sin is still with us whether we are righteous or unrighteous, but the righteous sins have been covered by his blood on the cross, past, present, and future. Unlike those who live on into the millenium in the flesh, sin will be unheard of as they are ruled with a rod of iron. IMO

 

[Omegatime]

Also wanted to say the tribulation deals with sinners, not the righteous. It is the last chance for the living except for the few who lives to the end of the tribulation and qualifies for the sheep/goat judgement because of works, not grace thru faith.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Also wanted to say the tribulation deals with sinners, not the righteous. It is the last chance for the living except for the few who lives to the end of the tribulation and qualifies for the sheep/goat judgement because of works, not grace thru faith.

Yes, and when the UNrighteous believe the "gospel of the kingdom,"
then THEY will be the ones "looking for the SIGNS" of the 2nd Coming.
ie:

Prophecy/Law { earthly! }:
18) "watchmen," { as CHRIST Told the Jews On the earth! }, looking
for The "wicked one, the deceiving man of SIN" And "signs"
(Matthew 24)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

We, in The Body Of CHRIST, who "believe The Gospel of GRACE, are to:
"...walk BY FAITH, not by sight..." (2Co 5:7), in Mystery/GRACE { Heavenly! }!:

(18) ambassadors { As CHRIST Told Paul, From Heaven! }
LOOKING, WATCHING, And WAITING For! = The Holy One,
The LORD JESUS CHRIST {The Secret Coming, From Heaven! }
(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25;
1 Corinthians 1:7; Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3;
1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13)
+
More Distinctions Of God's prophecy vs MYSTERY!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[The_Unnamed_Servent]

himation--linen/garments
stola--robes

A while ago you mentioned two different robes at the wedding feast. If you find the time check out Judges 14-15.

 

[LetGodBeTrue]

Every day I wait for our Lord...
Not just waiting for His appearing in the clouds , because we know other things have to happen before His second coming , but every day I wait for Him because I never know the day He will call me home , so may all be well with my soul ...
...xox...

What still has to happen? Jesus said that ALL of the things He warned His disciples about would happen in THAT very generation. And they did, or He lied.

 

[LetGodBeTrue]

What still has to happen? Jesus said that ALL of the things He warned His disciples about would happen in THAT very generation. And they did, or He lied.

Jesus told Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin: "YOU will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power and COMING on the CLOUDS of heaven" (Mat. 26:64). If THEY saw His COMING on the CLOUDS of heaven, why are you still looking to see that?