The lie that we are sinless if we are saved

Pilgrimshope · Feb 15, 2022

lol no let’s stay with what you said . You said Hebrews was only addressed to Hebrews and that’s out of context so we can go into” whether I’ve sinned “ flyer you answer what we’re talking about

can you explain how Hebrews are earned if they keep willfully sinning by have no atonement left but that’s only for Hebrew Christians ?

once we get to the truth of this then if you wish to discuss me and my sins , I suppose I’ll freely do that

but you said some thing and I responded with a question can you answer that is that your position that Hebrews are taught differently in Christ ?

Isaskar · Feb 15, 2022

Oblio said:

What is CB?

Oblio · Feb 15, 2022

Isaskar said:

Another forum.

Blain · Feb 15, 2022

Isaskar said:

It was only a matter of time I was actually expecting it sooner now the question is will he return under a new name?

Pilgrimshope · Feb 15, 2022

SophieT said:

That’s a good rant there but how come you can never actually address scripture ? Does your amazing intellect mean we shouldn’t accept the truth of what’s actually written in the Bible ? Or only accept a few verses that we can pretend exclude the rest ?

is this true ? Or is this just another phony thing Paul wrote because your rant there disagrees ?

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul must be wrong about that huh ? I bet you’d teach him the proper things

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then you’d say Paul are you sinless ?! Do you prefer oillars of fire paul you don’t get it paul

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s just heresy huh ? That darn Paul
Said a lot of crazy thing in his letters about repentance from actually living in sin but I’m sure you would set him strait

Bizarre beliefs around here for sure

Blain · Feb 15, 2022

You know something I don't get about the sinless perfection doctrine is that they use it as a means to prove their salvation but does that mean they have to stay perfect to keep their salvation or are they so perfect through the holy spirit they don't even need to try they are just perfect and sinless? because if they still have to put in effort with the holy spirit that means the fact they have to put in effort at all means they are not perfect and still able to sin they can still listen to their flesh should they choose to even though they have the holy spirit which means they are stiull human which means they are flawed which means they will still at times falll short-

Am I just thinking to much here?

Pilgrimshope · Feb 15, 2022

OneOfHis said:

“People who trust in their own thoughts,”

I totally agree whats why I believe what scripture says and reject everyone’s thoughts of how it doesn’t apply to be clear this isn’t my thought

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s scripture that few of you don’t want to acknowledge because you are trusting in what you think

this again is not my thought

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s scriptire bath at some of you reject because you think other things
again not my thought

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just something osas people can’t acknolwedge because they follow those own thinking and reject what the Bible says to correct their thinking

again not me inventing or thinking up this warning to Christians

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭

I agree people who trust in thier own thinking are in deep water without a boat and people who reject the truth ll never find repentance so one day when they arrive before Christ they won’t be prepared for it

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to be clear I myself didn’t write the Bible or put pauls thoughts in his head I just happen to not be willing to ignore it and pretend I understand better than what the scripture says

this is true

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so is the rest is my point so grace doesn’t equate to “ now you are allowed to continue on in sin d your saved “ the other stuff is there not to condemn us but to teach is the truth so we will accept repentance and stop serving Satan and start serving God but people who know better will never be able to accept things they don’t want to hear

salvstion os to believe the gospel
Jesus preached and follow
After where he leads us and that is out of sin

justbyfaith · Feb 15, 2022

SophieT said:

1 John 1:8 does not refer to the idea that we cannot walk in freedom and victory over sin for an extended time but is rather referring to the fact of indwelling sin (see Romans 7:18).

We can practically walk free from committing sins for even the rest of our lives (Luke 1:74-75).

This does not change the fact that we are sinful in the nature of our flesh.

It just means that we are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)); and therefore we can walk in consistent freedom and victory over the flesh (so that we obey and do what the Spirit wants rather than doing what the sinful nature wants us to do).

Pilgrimshope · Feb 16, 2022

justbyfaith said:

“Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:2-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved,

bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom;

teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:10-17‬ ‭

we all shouldnmeasire ourselves against the New Testament doctrine not the old.

it’s a process of growth and pursuit of Christ we have set before us the gospel that will keep us moving forward being diligent adding to our faith reaching to the bond of perfectness through our lives we start as children babes in Christ but we grow and eventually begin eating solid food which causes fruit to bloom

we should examine ourselves according to righteousness found in the gospel rather than sin found in the law it will go away if we let it because we’re clinging tonjesus and his way there’s no sin found in following Christ he’s always going to lead us to the right paths

Nehemiah6 · Feb 16, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

You are the one who quoted from Hebrews to inform Christians that if they "wilfully sinned" they would come under God's judgment and wrath. So can you honestly say that you have never ever "wilfully sinned"? And if you have wilfully sinned and God has not unleashed His wrath against you, then it means that you tried to take a passage out of context to promote a false doctrine.

So let's go back to Hebrews 10:26,27: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. If this passage were meant to be of general application, then every Christian would be facing the wrath of God -- "judgment and fiery indignation" -- as an "adversary" of God.

Let's take the example of Peter when he chose to separate himself from Gentile Christians and had to be rebuked by Paul. Did he sin wilfully by choosing to do what was wrong? Absolutely. Did he come under God's judgment immediately? Absolutely not. No doubt he accepted Paul's rebuke gracefully and made sure that he would not repeat that behavior. So now you have to do the same and admit that you took a passage out of context and created confusion in the minds of others.

justbyfaith · Feb 16, 2022

Peter did not willfully sin in the account of Galatians chapter 2.

As a matter of fact, a case can be made that he was being obedient to the principles that Paul wrote about in 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14.

But because his behaviour, from the perspective of the gospel as it pertains to the Gentiles, placed that gospel in compromise, it had to be addressed.

Nehemiah6 · Feb 16, 2022

justbyfaith said:

Of course he did and the narrative makes it perfectly clear. So now you want to plant Fake News into this thread. Let's go back to what is written:

PAUL SAYS THAT PETER WAS TO BE BLAMED
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

PETER WILFULLY SEPARATED HIMSELF FROM GENTILE BRETHREN
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

PETER JOINED THE OTHER JEWS IN HIS HYPOCRISY (FALSE APPEARANCES)
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

PAUL CALLED THIS "SIN" -- "WALKED NOT UPRIGHTLY"
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

So now the person who quoted from Hebrew 10 has a serious problem. According to that passage God was supposed to unleash His wrath on Peter. But the fact that Peter continued to be a faithful and leading apostle proves that we are not to misapply Scripture nor to generate Fake News as you have just done!

justbyfaith · Feb 16, 2022

There is a principle in 1 Corinthians 8 and in Romans 14 that we are to cater to the weaker brother in matters of conscience when our liberty might stumble the brother who is weak.

Peter had liberty to eat with the Gentiles in Galatians 2; but when the Jews showed up, it may very well be that he obeyed the principles in 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14 and decided to "bear with the infirmities of the weak" and not use his liberty to eat unclean foods with the Gentiles but to abstain from disobeying the food laws in order not to stumble his weaker Jewish brothers.

Paul may have been making a judgment that was not entirely based in the fulness of scripture therefore; since Peter and Barnabas also were being obedient to the principles of 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14.

So, what was Peter's sin? it was that he was not walking uprightly according to Paul's gospel (to the Gentiles).

In catering to the Jewish people, he ended up stumbling the Gentile believers who were present; until Paul corrected the problem. For the Gentile believers now felt compelled to live like the Jewish people if they were going to be accepted in the Beloved.

In effect, Peter was in a catch-22...

If he would have continued to cater to the Gentile believers present, he would have stumbled his weaker Jewish brothers.

But because he catered to the weaker Jewish brothers, he was not being upright according to the truth of the gospel as Paul preached it...

Galatians 2:7, But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter,

Since Peter's gospel was to the circumcision therefore, it was only right and in accordance with his ministry that he should cater to the Jews when they were come to Antioch...

While from Paul's perspective, as concerning the gospel that he was trying to preach, Peter was sinning.

PennEd · Feb 16, 2022

justbyfaith said:

There is a principle in 1 Corinthians 8 and in Romans 14 that we are to cater to the weaker brother in matters of conscience when our liberty might stumble the brother who is weak.

Peter had liberty to eat with the Gentiles in Galatians 2; but when the Jews showed up, it may very well be that he obeyed the principles in 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14 and decided to "bear with the infirmities of the weak" and not use his liberty to eat unclean foods with the Gentiles but to abstain from disobeying the food laws in order not to stumble his weaker Jewish brothers.

Paul may have been making a judgment that was not entirely based in the fulness of scripture therefore; since Peter and Barnabas also were being obedient to the principles of 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14.

So, what was Peter's sin? it was that he was not walking uprightly according to Paul's gospel (to the Gentiles).

In catering to the Jewish people, he ended up stumbling the Gentile believers who were present; until Paul corrected the problem. For the Gentile believers now felt compelled to live like the Jewish people if they were going to be accepted in the Beloved.

In effect, Peter was in a catch-22...

If he would have continued to cater to the Gentile believers present, he would have stumbled his weaker Jewish brothers.

But because he catered to the weaker Jewish brothers, he was not being upright according to the truth of the gospel as Paul preached it...

Galatians 2:7, But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter,

Since Peter's gospel was to the circumcision therefore, it was only right and in accordance with his ministry that he should cater to the Jews when they were come to Antioch...

While from Paul's perspective, as concerning the gospel that he was trying to preach, Peter was sinning.

Either Peter sinned by being a hypocrite, or Paul sinned by falsely judging his brother.

Can’t have it both ways “Peter”!

You have honed your sinless perfection doctrine over the yrs, but it’s STILL a heresy.

justbyfaith · Feb 16, 2022

PennEd said:

Paul made a faithful judgment because Peter was not walking uprightly according to Paul's gospel (to the Gentiles).

And Peter was also faithful to the principles in 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14.

Peter was in a catch-22; and was obedient to the gospel as it applied to his ministry as a minister to the circumcision.

Paul was also correct in rebuking what would have been a compromise on the gospel as it relates to the Gentiles.

btw, I do not believe in "sinless" perfection.

Sinless, no (1 John 1:8)

Perfect, yes (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv)).

"sinless perfection" is a misnomer that is often applied to the doctrine of entire sanctification (see 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10) in order to topple it as a straw man utilizing 1 John 1:8.

While the doctrine in question, does not purport that sin is eradicated from the flesh (so that we might be without sin); but rather that the element of sin, in the flesh, is rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

SophieT · Feb 16, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

That’s a good rant there but how come you can never actually address scripture ? Does your amazing intellect mean we shouldn’t accept the truth of what’s actually written in the Bible ? Or only accept a few verses that we can pretend exclude the rest ?

is this true ? Or is this just another phony thing Paul wrote because your rant there disagrees ?

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul must be wrong about that huh ? I bet you’d teach him the proper things

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then you’d say Paul are you sinless ?! Do you prefer oillars of fire paul you don’t get it paul

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s just heresy huh ? That darn Paul
Said a lot of crazy thing in his letters about repentance from actually living in sin but I’m sure you would set him strait

Bizarre beliefs around here for sure

you throw scripture around like confetti

I asked a simple question and you refuse to answer.

what you post is word salad with scripture dressing on top

your entire aim in the above rhetoric, is to create illusion that I posted nonsense and you are correcting it

let's get to it then

SophieT · Feb 16, 2022

"Pilgrimshope, post: 4776111, member: 300996"]That’s a good rant there but how come you can never actually address scripture ? Does your amazing intellect mean we shouldn’t accept the truth of what’s actually written in the Bible ? Or only accept a few verses that we can pretend exclude the rest ?

is this true ? Or is this just another phony thing Paul wrote because your rant there disagrees ?

there was no rant. this thread was about the cult of 'sinless perfectionism'. rather than address that, you have entertained us all with your scripture mashups in which you speak only about sin and create posts with giant lettering as if somehow that lends credence to your spasmodic thoughts. It doesn't.

most of us who participated in this thread posted about the topic and identified it as non biblical. you, on the other hand, do what you always do and show no interest in actually discussing anything relevant, but rather copy/paste scriptures that have no bearing whatsoever on what everyone else in posting about

I asked you 3 times to give your thoughts on what Nehemiah posted because he posted about salvation and you quoted his post and totally ignored what was actually in that post and post unrelated scripture about sin.

further, you lie and state people never address scripture. I tell you what, I basically do not read your posts because I have a Bible...several in fact and any translation I want online, and I prefer to read it in a way that makes sense. your posts do not

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul must be wrong about that huh ? I bet you’d teach him the proper things

why the snark? now I know that is how you really do business, but the couple of people who think you are a saint will be disappointed by seeing this. Paul made sense. you, once again, do not. this thread was not about being reproved of sin and anyone who is so concentrated on it, probably has a reason to be. I do not. I concentrate on Jesus, His love and kindness and the leading of the Holy Spirit, who has corrected me when He should have, but mostly I try to learn beneficial things to help me live for my Savior and He does not talk about sin all day long. In fact, no one I have met seems to enjoy that as much as you.

You may have the mistaken notion I take your words seriously because you copy/ paste scripture, but you do not seem to know what context is and most people have the correct understanding that choosing verses and slapping them into a post in order to condemn someone, is not a good practice.

I am not condemned and that is not your role in anyone's life

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then you’d say Paul are you sinless ?! Do you prefer oillars of fire paul you don’t get it paul

I have never said I was sinless. You have a problem with comprehension. I am the op of this thread and obviously I do not believe in anyone being sinless.

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s just heresy huh ? That darn Paul
Said a lot of crazy thing in his letters about repentance from actually living in sin but I’m sure you would set him strait

Bizarre beliefs around here for sure

well, it may start at home, right dude? you sound as nuts as the person who believed he was sinless and sadly would not listen to anyone and was finally dealt with

SophieT · Feb 16, 2022

Now here is Nehemiah's post about salvation again. I have no idea why pilgrim has taken such offense or whatever the problem is, but all I did was ask him to explain why he posted such negative scripture in response and he has not answered nor will he it seems.

I do know that a person who must consistently talk about sin may miss the fact that we are new creatures in Christ and we are no longer condemned. I would add that no one should allow anyone on this forum to condemn them or throw scripture in their face and call them a sinner

apparently, some think salvation is a revolving door and every time you sin you are 'unsaved' and this is actually taught in some churches and it is as bad as 'sinless perfectionism'.

here is the original post:

"Nehemiah6, post: 4774622, member: 258921"]It is really quite amazing to see so much confusion about salvation. Yes, there are some who delude themselves into believing that sinless perfection is attainable in this life, while others believe that salvation can be lost. Both are errors. So we need to see what the Bible says:

1. Even after someone is saved, the old sin nature -- "the flesh" -- is not eradicated. Therefore there is a conflict between the flesh and the Spirit: This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth [conflicts] against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. (Gal 5:16,17)

2. Christians who deny that they sin deceive themselves and make God a liar: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

3. Christians are commanded to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (Titus 2:11,12)

As we can see those who are saved do have the imputed righteousness of Christ, but because of the flesh they can fall into sin. Therefore they must examine themselves, confess their sins, and repent. But the constant goal of every believer must be righteousness and holiness.

Salvation is the gift of eternal life after God justifies a sinner by His grace. Therefore salvation can never be lost. If a Christian persists in sinning there are other remedies which God applies.

SophieT · Feb 16, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

this was the response given by pilgrim to the post above

nothing but judgement and unrelated renderings that do not even begin to address the post he quotes

and why the giant letters? sounds angry to me

Magenta · Feb 16, 2022

Isaskar said:

What, really??? Or should I say, finally!

The lie that we are sinless if we are saved

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