Is Paul or Jesus your main guide?

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#81
I feel sure that what God tells us and what scripture says is always and ever for our benefit.

By Moses our holy righteous God gave earthly things for them to do, using what they understood as training for the spiritual. Cutting flesh was earthly, but it was to train them about cutting flesh and marking themselves as belonging to God. You go on and on about how that was fleshly and of no value. God used it, I don't think we should tell God he was wrong to use it.

Also, I think we should value the law. We are not to use the commands given to Moses that were earthly because Christ came and put his law in our hearts. If you are against the law and don't want the law in your heart, then you are against God.

I don't think anyone was ever justified by following the commands people were given as schoolmasters to lead them to the law. As an example cutting flesh was never the circumcision we are asked to have, cutting flesh was only to lead them to true circumcision.
yes the law is useful still at thier time it was everything . I value the law a lot because it’s actually a witness of Jesus Christ almost every page there’s something that helps us understand t he gospel and what God has done for us.

if we’re looking from the belief of the gospel we can see it’s value bit we are not under its commands or ordinances is the thing that lets it become valuable it’s not our law it’s a witness of our law which came in Christ
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#82
We must remember that Paul was a fallible man who was a sinner even though he was ordained by God to be an apostle. While Paul serves as a great example of what godliness can be, if we follow Paul then we’re following a sinner.

The only One Who was never a sinner is Jesus Christ, the Son of God. We must follow Jesus because He is our highest possible example of what perfection is because He Himself is God.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#83
We must remember that Paul was a fallible man who was a sinner even though he was ordained by God to be an apostle. While Paul serves as a great example of what godliness can be, if we follow Paul then we’re following a sinner.

The only One Who was never a sinner is Jesus Christ, the Son of God. We must follow Jesus because He is our highest possible example of what perfection is because He Himself is God.
People followed Moses despite being a sinner. You don't follow their sins but the teachings from the Holy Spirit that is given through leaders like Moses and Paul.

Nothing wrong with following Paul, the teachings he receive directly from Christ and the holy spirit.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#84
Everyone here had better say JESUS. He is the way, the truth, and the life...........

Paul was an Apostle who preached the Gospel of Jesus.

Anyone following Paul is on the wrong path. Following Paul won't get anyone to eternal life! Reading what Paul preached is good, but placing him above/in front of Jesus is downright crazy!
so good !!!!

“For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul was incensed when people tried exalting him or the apostles to christs place
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#85
People followed Moses despite being a sinner. You don't follow their sins but the teachings from the Holy Spirit that is given through leaders like Moses and Paul.

Nothing wrong with following Paul, the teachings he receive directly from Christ and the holy spirit.
I think Paul himself seems to disagree with you that he should be followed when a better alternative, God, is available. Paul equates following mere men as carnality. Paul and his brethren are just laborers, messengers, delivering the gospel. What's more important is to follow God.

1 Corinthians 3:1-9 KJV
1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,995
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#86
I think Paul himself seems to disagree with you that he should be followed when a better alternative, God, is available.

That's different. When I say "follow" I mean listen and learn from his teachings. We should follow/learn from all the Apostles and prophets God has spoken to. We shouldn't follow one of them and reject the other like in your example.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#87
That's different. When I say "follow" I mean listen and learn from his teachings. We should follow/learn from all the Apostles and prophets God has spoken to. We shouldn't follow one of them and reject the other like in your example.
Paul said in 1 Cor. 11:1 "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. " by why not skip the middle man and just follow Christ?
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,995
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#88
Paul said in 1 Cor. 11:1 "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. " by why not skip the middle man and just follow Christ?

Because it's good and wise to follow the Apostles of Christ. You clearly are an anti-Pauline. You critique him constantly.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,885
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#89
That's different. When I say "follow" I mean listen and learn from his teachings. We should follow/learn from all the Apostles and prophets God has spoken to. We shouldn't follow one of them and reject the other like in your example.
“We should follow/learn from all the Apostles”

amen they were all teaching understanding of the gospel of the kingdom that Jesus preached he is the foundation they are those building upon it

“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we should never think any apostle was telling us to follow them and not Jesus. As some actually think
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#90
yes the law is useful still at thier time it was everything . I value the law a lot because it’s actually a witness of Jesus Christ almost every page there’s something that helps us understand t he gospel and what God has done for us.

if we’re looking from the belief of the gospel we can see it’s value bit we are not under its commands or ordinances is the thing that lets it become valuable it’s not our law it’s a witness of our law which came in Christ
What you speak of as commands ad ordinances were never the law, they were guides to the law. God's law is eternal like God is, they are holy and good as Paul stated they are.

We are to read the OT that taught through explaining the spirit of the Lord through the flesh. As Christ opened our eyes, we are to see the spirit of the Lord they were to lead to. The OT said to cut skin as a teaching about being circumcised. Now we have the holy spirit, the law is within us. We can understand what the spiritual meaning of cutting skin was, we are to read and know the spirit of the law in these fleshly type commands and never use the flesh to understand any more. We have Christ.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,885
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#91
What you speak of as commands ad ordinances were never the law, they were guides to the law. God's law is eternal like God is, they are holy and good as Paul stated they are.

We are to read the OT that taught through explaining the spirit of the Lord through the flesh. As Christ opened our eyes, we are to see the spirit of the Lord they were to lead to. The OT said to cut skin as a teaching about being circumcised. Now we have the holy spirit, the law is within us. We can understand what the spiritual meaning of cutting skin was, we are to read and know the spirit of the law in these fleshly type commands and never use the flesh to understand any more. We have Christ.
“What you speak of as commands ad ordinances were never the law, they were guides to the law.”

yeah maybe we are talking about different laws ?

Im talking about what the Bible says the law is.

“And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,

That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the book of Moses was the law all
Of it they call it the Torah .

“There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s thier law the law of Moses. Which I know you don’t like that term but it’s what scripture calls It and I have no issue with it

Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it was of course for ot isreal and never was a gentile law they had none that’s what made them gentile.

“And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They still followed it all the way to the gospel

“And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭2:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭13:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And they stood in their place after their manner, according to the law of Moses the man of God: the priests sprinkled the blood, which they received of the hand of the Levites.”
‭‭2 Chronicles‬ ‭30:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s how israel operated according to everything Moses said to them they agreed “ we’ll do anything you say just don’t let God speak anymore “ God agreed.

They were still trying to add it in after the gospel came

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:5‬ ‭

but thre apostles made clear it’s not Christian doctrine

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A you could be right in talking about what the Bible says the law is that’s what I’m at this forum for to learn what the Bible actually says and remove all the opinion.

But you could be right maybe there’s another law I just have never read about it but I do know that no one can add to or take a single word from
Moses law under penalty of death
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#92
“What you speak of as commands ad ordinances were never the law, they were guides to the law.”

yeah maybe we are talking about different laws ?

Im talking about what the Bible says the law is.

“And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,

That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the book of Moses was the law all
Of it they call it the Torah .

“There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s thier law the law of Moses. Which I know you don’t like that term but it’s what scripture calls It and I have no issue with it

Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it was of course for ot isreal and never was a gentile law they had none that’s what made them gentile.

“And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They still followed it all the way to the gospel

“And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭2:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭13:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And they stood in their place after their manner, according to the law of Moses the man of God: the priests sprinkled the blood, which they received of the hand of the Levites.”
‭‭2 Chronicles‬ ‭30:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s how israel operated according to everything Moses said to them they agreed “ we’ll do anything you say just don’t let God speak anymore “ God agreed.

They were still trying to add it in after the gospel came

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:5‬ ‭

but thre apostles made clear it’s not Christian doctrine

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A you could be right in talking about what the Bible says the law is that’s what I’m at this forum for to learn what the Bible actually says and remove all the opinion.

But you could be right maybe there’s another law I just have never read about it but I do know that no one can add to or take a single word from
Moses law under penalty of death
When Moses wrote the law o stone, it was "the law". Christ tells us in Matthew 5, first verses, that law did not change. The law of love, the new covenant law as Christ gave it contain the law in stone. When Christ put the law not to murder in our hearts, that law changed so it reflected God as spirit and we are no longer to read it as orders to obey by the letter, but by the heart. So it is with all the fleshly commands of the OT.

We are under the new covenant, not the old one where the law is in stone. Now we have the holy spirit to use to read scripture, not to flesh but of spirit. God is spirit.

John 4:23-24 But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

WE no longer use fleshly commands as in the old covenant, we convert them into spiritual commands through the holy spirit and Christ.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#93
“ you could be right maybe there’s another law I just have never read about it but I do know that no one can add to or take a single word from
Moses law under penalty of death
I never said there was another law, that canot be. God created our world complete at the beginning. Christ "fulfilled" what we are told of that creation in the OT, but nothing is changed. God is spirit, and the true law is spirit. Because that mixed crowd that escaped from Egypt with Moses had so much to learn, God gave earthly commands to help them. Those commands were not the law. The true law is spirit and truth, and has never changed..

We are NOT living under the old covenant, nor under the law as Moses gave it. We are living under the new covenant. To go back to the old covenant and those commands is to deny Christ.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#94
Because it's good and wise to follow the Apostles of Christ. You clearly are an anti-Pauline. You critique him constantly.
It's not like I am anti-Paul, I just don't think there is any invalid question that can be asked. I would actually prefer to ask these same questions to Paul himself as I would love to hear his answer. I am sure he would have a theologically sound and intriguing response. I would be a bit shocked to hear him say, "Oh you're just anti-Paul" as he would hopefully see that my angle of approach is that of curiosity and sincerity, not mocking or critical.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,885
5,630
113
#95
When Moses wrote the law o stone, it was "the law". Christ tells us in Matthew 5, first verses, that law did not change. The law of love, the new covenant law as Christ gave it contain the law in stone. When Christ put the law not to murder in our hearts, that law changed so it reflected God as spirit and we are no longer to read it as orders to obey by the letter, but by the heart. So it is with all the fleshly commands of the OT.

We are under the new covenant, not the old one where the law is in stone. Now we have the holy spirit to use to read scripture, not to flesh but of spirit. God is spirit.

John 4:23-24 But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

WE no longer use fleshly commands as in the old covenant, we convert them into spiritual commands through the holy spirit and Christ.
“When Moses wrote the law o stone, it was "the law". Christ tells us in Matthew 5, first verses, that law did not change”

Moses didn’t write the law in stone God wrote the Ten Commandments with his finger . Then they broke the ckvenwnt he had made with them because they worshipped golden calf ,

no blick he said Thy law could
Never change until he fulfilled it.

“For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then he explained what he meant and gave then understanding of the scriptures

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them,

Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He didn’t say it will never change he said until it’s fulfilled and it is he fulfilled the law and prophets everything that was foretold is what was fulfilled

It was only ever meant to last until Jesus came , preached the gospel , died and rose that’s the culmination of the law and prophets

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,

till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; ( till he fuflilled the promise of Jesus )

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Thou shalt not do this or that “ is something that’s going to be fulfilled things like this we’re fulfilled

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s the true law and was fulfilled here

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And it’s witnessed by the apostles here

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law of Moses was temporary given because of sin until Christ would come and preach righteousness and life


it was meant to last until Jesus came just like Moses said in the law itself. It’s fulfilled so now we don’t have this relationship with God

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Now we have this relationship with God

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And we have this covenant word

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


There’s no way to make the Old Testament law the law of Christians Jesus is our lord and his word is our law he fulfilled the ot like it repeatedly says do indeed the law changed with its priesthood

“If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:11-12, 15-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christians need to begin and end with Jesus and the gospel not try to add in an unprofitable law that can’t help made under sinful preists and mediated by angels and given into a different mediators hands those things served a purpose and we’re all disannuled when Christ died and rose up

It’s Christs words his teachings that’s what God is going to recognize and either believers will be saved and rejectors won’t be Moses words can’t help now Jesus words can save anyone Jew or gentile if they are able to let go if The unprofitable and grasp the life and light
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,885
5,630
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#96
I never said there was another law, that canot be. God created our world complete at the beginning. Christ "fulfilled" what we are told of that creation in the OT, but nothing is changed. God is spirit, and the true law is spirit. Because that mixed crowd that escaped from Egypt with Moses had so much to learn, God gave earthly commands to help them. Those commands were not the law. The true law is spirit and truth, and has never changed..

We are NOT living under the old covenant, nor under the law as Moses gave it. We are living under the new covenant. To go back to the old covenant and those commands is to deny Christ.
right exactly. It’s only about the gospel the law was a different covenant that was fulfilled and disannuled because we have a better Hope now in christs word a New Covenant not according to the old broken covenant

“For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s not this law that command people to stay away from God or they will die

“And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice. And the Lord came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the Lord called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up. And the Lord said unto Moses, Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the Lord to gaze, and many of them perish. And Moses said unto the Lord, The people cannot come up to mount Sinai: for thou chargedst us, saying, Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it. And the Lord said unto him, Away, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee: but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the Lord, lest he break forth upon them.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭19:18-21, 23-24‬ ‭

remember that’s when he gave the Ten Commandments We haven’t come to that law

“For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard entreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:18-21‬ ‭

we have come to Christ and his word a better Hope a better word that offers blood that actually atones for sin and a word that actually teaches righteousness rather than sin

a law that gove life to the spirit rather than a carnal law speaking to the flesh saying to unspiritual people “ don’t kill , don’t lie , don’t steal ……he said that because they were carnal we have to have a new completely new law because we are to be completely new people born again a new way
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#98
It looks like it how you criticize him so often. Is Paul a true Apostle? Did he ever contradict what Jesus taught?
Well, you’re obviously wrong because I just told you I’m not anti-Paul. You calling me a liar?
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#99
Well, you’re obviously wrong because I just told you I’m not anti-Paul. You calling me a liar?

Obviously not but I would like you to answer the questions not avoid them as you did. I'm sure people can not be anti-Paul but also not think he is a true Apostle who at times contradicted Christ because I have spoken to such people at other forums.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Obviously not but I would like you to answer the questions not avoid them as you did. I'm sure people can not be anti-Paul but also not think he is a true Apostle who at times contradicted Christ because I have spoken to such people at other forums.
I think Paul is a true apostle. I haven’t noticed any contradictions between Paul and Christ. Where something isn’t clear, it can usually be explained by the difference in peoples access to God pre and post crucifixion.