The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[kleronomos]

And to whom did the Lord say `endure to the end?`

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Revelation 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star.

29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.



Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.



James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

 

[Marilyn]

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Revelation 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star.

29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.



Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.



James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Rev. 2: 19 - 29 is to the Body of Christ and says nothing about enduring to the end.

Matt. 24: 11 is talking to Israel about their future in the time of the `abomination of desolation.`
Jesus came to confirm the promises of God to them and warn them of the time when He would return to deliver them.

`Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to CONFIRM THE PROMISES MADE TO THE FATHERS.` (Rom. 15: 8)

 

[Absolutely]

Take all those 'pre trib' verses and stick them with the return of Christ when the two witnesses rise up from the earth and there you will have it all. OH, and nothing will conflict. BUT don't expect every verse to give every detail as God provides us with wisdom.

Only thing you need now, is to have FAITH that God will see you through. So, put on the gospel armor as He has told you to do and everything you need to know to endure to the end and to receive the promises is found there. If beheading is too much for you don't worry, there are those who do not feel the same way and he will not put on you more than you can bear. Just don't be deceived. Remain faithful to God. Don't fall away to the false promises.

Millions will be beheaded.
Millions OTHERS raptured.

I can defend that against the best of you guys.

The bible does the talking.
I make you go against it over and over.

 

[Absolutely]

Please show me the church and the Lamb being married before the return of Christ.




I went looking and found THIS, (and it is a parable not a time line)

but this CAN'T BE IT

AS THIS takes place RIGHT AT THE WHITE THONE JUDGEMENT AND THESE ARE GUESTS

NOT THE BRIDE.


Matthew 22:4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

GWTJ
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.



THEN I FOUND THIS BUT THIS ISN'T PRE TRIB EITHER AS EVIDENCED BY WHAT TAKES PLACE BEFORE

Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are His judgments: for He hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of His servants at her hand.

Revelation 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

DEFINITELY NOT PRE TRIB

Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

AGAIN, AFTER JUDGMENT SO NOT POSSIBLE TO BE PRE TRIB

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Lol
Rev 19 has the scene in heaven.
The wedding in heaven
The bride BECOMES THE WIFE IN HEAVEN.

They come with Jesus on white horses to earth directly to Armageddon.

.....and you missed it.

 

[Absolutely]

You are correct overall brother AB but you are misdiagnosing the 144,000's timing and where they reside. And maybe who they are. There are other ways to price 100 percent the Rapture is pre trib.

We come back from Heaven in Rev. 18 AFTER having married the Lamb/Jesus, then in Rev. 20:4 those who refused to take the Mark of the Beast are only then raised and judged. He doesn't get that proves post trib is not a possibility.

In Rev. 14:1 the 144,000 are on the Mt. of Olives with Jesus but its metaphoric, they are still in the Petra/Bozrah area, Jesus is paining a picture that his landing in Jerusalem will save the Jewish/Israeli peoples. They are with Christ in Spirit, because they (1/3 who repent in Zechariah 13:8-9)repented just before the DOTL. Rev. 14 is The Harvest Chapter. We see the Wheat ?(Jews) being harvested by Jesus, we see the Wicked Grapes being placed in the Wine-press of God's Wrath in verse 17 and in a FLASHBACK in verse 14 we see Jesus calling the Church to Heaven pre trib.

The 144,000 from every tribe is like the 10 Virgin Brides that represent all Christendom. The 144,000 "Male Virgins" are no more male or virgin than all of us in the Church are female and virgin, we are made Virgins by Jesus' blood. The number 10 = completion, as seen with the 10 Virgins. Thus when we have 12 (Fulness) x 12 x 10 (Completeness) x 10 x 10 that is simply God SHOUTING this is ALL Israel who repents. That is why they are seen in Rev. 7 just before God's Wrath falls in Rev. 8. God says hold back the winds (judgments) until we have them protected. These are the 1/3 or 3-5 million Jews who flee Judea at the 1290, just 30 days before the 1260 (Rev. 8 asteroid strike)

It says the 144k are in heaven in rev 14
It says the WERE redeemed FROM THE EARTH.
It says they are FIRSTFRUITS.
" firstfruits" means they are harvested first.

Rev 14:14 is main harvest of Jews to heaven. To the marriage supper.( after the 144k firstfruits)
Rev 14:14 is neither the rapture of 1 thes 4 nor the second coming.

If you omit "Firstfruits" then all sorts of "interpretations" appear to "fit".

Also, no way are the 144k anything but Ethnic Jews.

 

[Absolutely]

THOSE ARENT MY QUOTES, YET AGAIN. MAYBE TECH SUPPORT CAN GIVE SOME POINTER ON WHAT YOU ARE DOING WRONG

it is what you do.
What you are saying.

Other times you string verses together that support neither side.

....But hope to make a point by posting many verses.

 

[FreeGrace2]

And to whom did the Lord say `endure to the end?`

From the context, obviously the Tribulation generation. The "end" means the end of the Trib. The context is clear.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Millions will be beheaded.

Yep, the Bible says so.

Millions OTHERS raptured.[/QUOE]
Nope, the Bible says nothing about a trip to heaven after being glorified.

I can defend that against the best of you guys.

Only if you have a verse showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven. Which, of course, you DON'T HAVE.

The bible does the talking.

And where it is silent, you have to make up stuff.

I make you go against it over and over.

You embarrass yourself every time you claim there will be a trip to heaven after being glorified.

Or that there will be stages or series of resurrections.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

The Bible says "A resurrection of the saved and A resurrection of the unsaved".

You keep saying "a series of resurrections of the saved".

See? You just make up whatever stuff you need to fit your presumptions.

You turn singulars into plurals in order to fit your presumption.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Rev 19 has the scene in heaven.
The wedding in heaven
The bride BECOMES THE WIFE IN HEAVEN.

The scene in heaven is PREPARATION for the wedding supper. Everything is READY.

They come with Jesus on white horses to earth directly to Armageddon.

Not before a brief stop in the clouds for their resurrection bodies, along with all the living believers at that time.

Then the battle, which ends the Trib, and begins the Millennial reign of King Jesus.

.....and you missed it.

It hasn't happened yet.

 

[Absolutely]

Please show me the church and the Lamb being married before the return of Christ.




I went looking and found THIS, (and it is a parable not a time line)

but this CAN'T BE IT

AS THIS takes place RIGHT AT THE WHITE THONE JUDGEMENT AND THESE ARE GUESTS

NOT THE BRIDE.


Matthew 22:4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

GWTJ
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.



THEN I FOUND THIS BUT THIS ISN'T PRE TRIB EITHER AS EVIDENCED BY WHAT TAKES PLACE BEFORE

Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are His judgments: for He hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of His servants at her hand.

Revelation 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

DEFINITELY NOT PRE TRIB

Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

AGAIN, AFTER JUDGMENT SO NOT POSSIBLE TO BE PRE TRIB

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

"""GWTJ
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen."""

If you look up the gwtj it is a judgement of fire.
They are thrown into fire, not outer darkness.

So wedding,wedding garment, and outer darkness is not remotely associated with the gwtj

 

[Absolutely]

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Revelation 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star.

29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.



Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.



James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

"""24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father."""

All the apostles did that very thing,( overcame and kept the works to the end), and of course NONE OF THEM " lived through" the gt.

You are way off again

 

[Absolutely]

The scene in heaven is PREPARATION for the wedding supper. Everything is READY.


Not before a brief stop in the clouds for their resurrection bodies, along with all the living believers at that time.

Then the battle, which ends the Trib, and begins the Millennial reign of King Jesus.


It hasn't happened yet.

Show me.
Show me your verses.

Remember, the bride is now the wife in heaven at rev 19 BEFORE THEY DESCEND TO EARTH.

 

[Absolutely]

Yep, the Bible says so.

"""Only if you have a verse showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven. Which, of course, you DON'T HAVE."""

And yet, here they are, DURING THE GT , for you to change it into something else
Ignore it, or reframe it.
You WILL NOT ACCEPT IT.

REV 14
1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

...go ahead and do your reframe job.

 

[Absolutely]

Absolutely said:
"""Millions will be beheaded."""

Fg replies
"""Yep, the Bible says so."""

Now read it all.
It says "all take the mark"
It say "power was given the ac to overcome the saints"

They all die.
You just confirmed it.
No postrib rapture at all.

 

[Absolutely]

From the context, obviously the Tribulation generation. The "end" means the end of the Trib. The context is clear.

Lol
You admitted earlier millions get beheaded.
Did not make it to the end of the trib.
Such folly...lol

That means they were not saved.
It also means all those martyred before the gt did not "endure to the end"

Wow...what a pit that postrib rapture theory is.
I lost count of the verses you guys need butchered.

 

[Absolutely]

Got bible???
Lol

 

[Rondonmon]

And to whom did the Lord say `endure to the end?`

The Disciples, Matt. 24:7-14 is about the Church Age in general, it has nothing to do with the end times. In verse 9 Jesus warns the Disciples they would all be killed, they will hate YOU, the will KILL YOU. This is why elsewhere in the scriptures another disciple asked, what about him(John) because he had not been told he would die a Martyr, but that he had a special mission (book of Revelation no doubt). So, why was Jesus telling them ahead of time? He wanted them it know that in order to build the Church they would have to be willing to lay down their lives. That false prophets (which might mean Roman Priests of false deities or other places also) was going to betray them and try to have them killed for turning their former adherents unto God and away from them. The reason he warned them was so they wouldn't become another Judas, you must ENDURE until the end [of ones life]. Paul said its a marathon, not a short distant race.

 

[Rondonmon]

Hold on. Rev 20:5 says clearly that the resurrection of trib marytrs is the FIRST resurrection and the Bible says there is ONE for the saved and ONE for the unsaved. So the FIRST resurrection, involves believers and occurs after the Trib. That is cleary a POST-trib event.

Well, good luck proving a pretrib rapture, since the SINGLE resurrection occurs post trib.

Anyone that understand prophecy understands the Rapture is pre trib, most of you guys were not really called to prophecy, you are a leg tryin to be an arm.

The above is a prime example, you can't even grasp that their are two resurrections, not two POINTS IN TIME when Resurrections happen, one will be the Righteous Resurrection and one the Wicked Men's Resurrection 1000 years later. Just like the first football game of the season has FOUR QUARTERS.

We see the Church returning with God in Rev. 19, then the Martyrs of Revelation or the 70th week only being raised and judged in Rev. 20:4, Gd doesn't care how you or anyone else sees what He sees, their are TWO RESURRECTION, the Righteous and the Wicked.

Anyone who can't understand the that the Second Coming cant be Jesus return is IMHO a lightweight as per unto prophecy (you may very well be great at sharing the gospel and winning souls) because you can not have imminence with the Second Coming, Jesus will come the VERY DAY that the Beasts 1260 day rule is finished. So, anyone that can't understand this simply doesn't understand prophecy one whit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Show me.
Show me your verses.

Unlike yourself, I WILL show you. The second time.

Rev 19-
7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)
9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”

The red words show preparation. Since ch 19 is JUST BEFORE the trip to earth to end the battle, these words are totally inappropriate for a wedding that already occurred 7 years previously.

Do you think all the believers in heaven would wait until the very end of the Trib for the wedding? That makes no sense.

No, these are words of PREPARATION. You can read them any way you want.

We also find the SAME WORDING for what the "armies of heaven" are wearing for the trip to earth:

14 - The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

Notice the blue words in v.14 are the same words in v.8. Therefore, they are the same people.

They have prepared for the wedding, and then accompany King Jesus to earth, where obviously the wedding will take place, once all believers have received their glorified bodies, including all the martyred believers (Rev 20:5).

Remember, the bride is now the wife in heaven at rev 19 BEFORE THEY DESCEND TO EARTH.

There is no mention of a wife in heaven. It is the Bride who accompanies King Jesus to earth.

This is obvious from the wording.

 

[FreeGrace2]

"""Only if you have a verse showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven. Which, of course, you DON'T HAVE."""

And yet, here they are, DURING THE GT , for you to change it into something else
Ignore it, or reframe it.
You WILL NOT ACCEPT IT.

You STILL don't have a verse that says what you believe. You require presumption.