The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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Marilyn

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Jul 27, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
The "quickening by the Holy Spirit" refers to being born again and indwelt by the Spirit upon faith in Christ.

The Holy Spirit doesn't "quicken" those already saved.

Apparently I wasn't clear enough. To be "quickened" in biblical terminology means to be "made alive", as in regeneration.

We are guided by the Holy Spirit. Not "quickened".

Believers are only quickened by the Spirit once. At the moment of salvation.
I hear what you are saying. It can also mean to stimulate. The Holy Spirit continually works in our hearts, as you say guides, and He also teaches us, and stimulates us so that we grow more like the Lord, and if lethargic, then stimulates, quickens, stirs us to seek the Lord and grow.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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You seem to miss that the city comes down out of heaven FROM GOD.
No, I don't miss that. No one does. It's not even related to our discussion..

It is only by His Spirit that God dwells with people on the earth, and in the city. (Rev. 21: 2)
No, God the Father will live in New Jerusalem with his son and holy spirit.
 
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2Thessalonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer

BUT YOU WILL ONLY SUFFER UP UNTIL 'DEATH OF THE FLESH.' NO MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE EVER HAS.


6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you

GOD LIKES THAT AS IT IS A RIGHTEOUS THING WITH GOD TO RECOMPENSE TRIBULATION TO THOSE WHO TROUBLE YOU

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,

WHEN THE LORD JESUS IS REVEALED WITH HIS MIGHTY ANGELS. ANY QUESTIONS AS TO WHAT DAY IS BEING SPOKEN OF? THIS IS THE DAY OF VENGEANCE. THE 2ND ADVENT. CAN WE BE SURE?

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

YES, WE CAN. I MEAN CAN EVERYONE BE SURE OF WHAT DAY IS BEING DISCUSSED?

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power;

OK, THAT SETTLES IT, IT IS THE DAY OF VENGEANCE, THE LORDS DAY, THE SUBJECT OF THE DISCUSSION TAKING PLACE

10 When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

HE IS COMING TO BE GLORIFIED IN HIS SAINTS AND TO BE ADMIRED IN ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE (THE ALIVE AND REMAINING FOR SURE) WHY BECAUSE OUR TESTIMONY WAS BELIEVED.

11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling,

THIS IS THE COURSE LAID OUT IN FRONT OF US. THIS IS OUR CALLING

and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness,

HOW MUCH? ALL

and the work of faith with power

IT IS A WORK OF FAITH WITH POWER AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE STRIPED OF IT


12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,

IF IT HAS NOT BEEN MADE CLEAR ENOUGH WHAT IS BEING SPOKEN OF OR WHAT THE SUBJECT IS, PLEASE GO BACK AND RE READ BECAUSE NOT ONE TIME HAS THERE BEEN A SHIFT IN THE SUBJECT AND HERE IT CONTINUES ON. THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY WORD PREVIOUS, THERE IS NOT A WORD HERE AND THERE WILL NOT BE A WORD COMING UP THAT HAS TO DO WITH PRE TRIB ANYTHING.


2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU THE DAY OF THE LORD IS HERE OR HAS BEGAN. DON'T LET THE LAST LETTER, OR WHAT PEOPLE SAY OR ANYTHING

BECAUSE

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

WHAT DAY? SAME SUBJECT FOR THE ENTIRE TWO BOOKS OF THESSALONIANS AND THAT IS THE LORDS DAY, A DAY OF FLAMING FIRE AND TAKING VENGEANCE, THAT DAY HE COMES TO BE GLORIFIED IN HIS SAINTS WHICH WILL ONLY BE COMING

1. AFTER A FALLING AWAY
2. MAN OF SIN REVEALED TO BE THE SON OF PERDITION, SATAN


SO UNTIL THOSE TWO THINGS HAPPEN JESUS DOESN'T LEAVE THE RIGHT SIDE OF GOD AND RETURN AS HE LEFT


4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

9 Even him, WHOSE COMING IS AFTER THE WORKING OF SATAN with all power and signs and lying wonders,
1. AFTER A FALLING AWAY
2. MAN OF SIN REVEALED TO BE THE SON OF PERDITION, SATAN
SO UNTIL THOSE TWO THINGS HAPPEN JESUS DOESN'T LEAVE THE RIGHT SIDE OF GOD AND RETURN AS HE LEFT
Falling away is now
ac REVEALED Is future
We will all note that "revealed" actually means "revealed". nothing else.
So we could have the rapture right after the revealing or "uncovering" of the ac.

AHEM, that means a pretrib rapture is 100% factual.
 
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NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ANY MORE. I AM LEAVING OUT NOTHING AND CHANGING NOTHING AND NOT SAYING THAT THE DAY OF THE LORD WAS HAPPENING 2000 YEARS AGO, THE DAY OF THE LORD IS THE LAST DAY OF THIS AGE. I AM NOT NOR HAVE EVER SAID ANYTHING TO MAKE ANYONE THINK THE DAY OF THE LORD WAS HAPPENING ANYWHERE BUT HERE ON EARTH SO WHATEVER THAT IS I DON'T KNOW. WHY ANYONE WOULD EVER THINK THE DAY OF THE LORD WAS NOT ABOUT THE EARTH I HAVE NO IDEA.



11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;

12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

NOT THE CHURCH THAT HAS 'BEEN RAPTURED' BUT THOSE WHO HAVE DIED


14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

WHY IS EVERYONE COMING TO THE EARTH? BECAUSE THE AGE IS ABOUT TO END. SATAN IS ABOUT TO BE BOUND. THE LORDS DAY IS ABOUT TO BEGIN ON EARTH.

IF JESUS WERE COMING TO 'RAPTURE THE CHURCH' THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR ALL THE SAINTS AND ANGELS AND ARMIES TO BE COMING WITH HIM WOULD THERE AS THERE WOULD BE NO WAR GOING ON. HE WOULD JUST BE COMING TO PICK UP SOME MORE OF 'HIS BODY'. NOT THAT HE WOULD HAVE ALL OF HIS BODY AT THAT TIME AS SOME OF THOSE CHURCHES MOST DEFINITELY WEREN'T FLYING AWAY BUT BEING SPIT OUT. NOTHER SUBJECT NOTHER TIMEM


5 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

HERE IS WHAT THE LORD SAYS, THOSE WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAINING WHEN HE COMES AREN'T STOPPING THOSE WHO HAVE DIED

FROM GOING TO BE WITH HIM ,

JUST AS THE ALIVE AND REMAINING WILL BE WITH HIM IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE


16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

THAT MEANS EVERYONE WHO ISN'T DEAD AND RISEN BUT IS ALIVE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH IS CHANGED IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE.

THAT WOULD BE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS, ALL WHO ARE SAVED AND ALL WHO WERE BLIND AND ALL LOST SHEEP ALL OF THOSE LEFT ALIVE AND REMAINING BECAUSE

HEAVEN HAS ARRIVED AND IS NOW ON EARTH. THE LAST CONTRACTION HAS TAKEN PLACE AND THE NEW DAY HAS BEEN BORN.


18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

THE SUBJECT OF THE LORDS DAY CONTINUES

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

THE SUBJECT OF THE LORDS DAY CONTINUES

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

THE LORDS DAY IS UPON WHEN PEACE AND SAFETY IS HEARD

THIS DAY THE LORDS DAY IS NOT UPON THEM AND PAUL IS NOT SAYING IT IS HE IS TALKING FUTURE


4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

AS A THIEF. THAT DAY SHOULD NOT OVERTAKE YOU, THE SAVED, AS A THIEF. THAT DAY WILL COME UPON YOU NO DOUBT. BUT NOT AS A THIEF

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO SLEEP, WE ARE NOT GOING TO PRE TRIB RAPTURE AWAY EITHER, WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE DRUNKEN IN THE NIGHT,

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?

WE ARE GOING TO BE PUTTING ON THE BREASTPLATE OF FAITH AND LOVE, AND A HELMET, THE HOPE OF SALVATION, NOT THE RIDE OF SALVATION TO HEAVEN. WHAT ARE BREASTPLATES AND HELMETS FOR? THEY ARE BATTLE GEAR.


9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


HOW IS SALVATION OBTAINED? THROUGH PRE TRIB RAPTURE? NOT ACCORDING TO ANYTHING WRITTEN SO FAR. IT IS THROUGH FAITH AND HOPE

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

WE LIVE WITH HIM ALREADY. WE ARE IN HEAVENLY PLACES ALREADY. WE DON'T NEED TO BE CHANGED AND PRE TRIB RAPTURED TO BE WITH HIM AND FOR GODS WRATH TO NOT FALL UPON US BECAUSE GODS WRATH IS NOT GOING TO FALL UPON THOSE WHO HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT DWELLING WITHIN THEM. THAT WOULD BE LIKE GOD PUNISHING GOD.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

AS A THIEF. THAT DAY SHOULD NOT OVERTAKE YOU, THE SAVED, AS A THIEF. THAT DAY WILL COME UPON YOU NO DOUBT. BUT NOT AS A THIEF
Well you messed with it, but it still is there for all of us to see that he comes as a thief, but those watching and praying (you know, the imminence you left out),
,,we will not be overtaken as we are, in fact, watching, as we can all see you left out the "being ready" part,

reframe job as you always do.
 
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Watch also at every season praying that YOU MAY HAVE STRENGTH to escape these things that are about to come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man

2729. katischuó
Strong's Concordance
katischuó: to overpower
Original Word: κατισχύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katischuó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-is-khoo'-o)
Definition: to overpower
Usage: I prevail against, overpower, get the upper hand.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from kata and ischuó
Definition
to overpower
NASB Translation
have strength (1), overpower (1), prevail (1).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2729: κατισχύω

κατισχύω: imperfect κατίσχυον; future κατισχύσω; 1 aorist subjunctive 2 person plural κατισχύσητε (Luke 21:36 T Tr text WH); the Sept. mostly for חָזַק; among Greek writings especially by Polybius, Diodorus, Dionysius Halicarnassus; properly, to be strong to another's detriment, to prevail against; to be superior in strength; to overpower: followed by an infinitive, Luke 21:36 T Tr text WH (prevail (i. e. have full strength) to escape etc.); to overcome, τίνος (Jeremiah 15:18), Matthew 16:18 (meaning, 'not even the gates of Hades — than which nothing was supposed to be stronger — shall surpass the church in strength'); absolutely, to prevail (i. e. succeed, accomplish one's desire): Luke 23:23.




DON'T BE ONE OF THE FOOLISH VIRGINS THAT DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH OIL OR GOSPEL ARMOR TO ESCAPE THE FLOOD OF LIES SATAN WILL BE SPEWING OUT OF HIS MOUTH AND FOUND THEMSELVES HAVING BEEN DECEIVED.

WATCH BUT DON'T BE TAKEN.

WATCH, DON'T BE DECEIVED.

WATCH TO MAKE SURE THE THIEF DOESN'T BREAK INTO YOUR 'HOUSE/BODY/MIND' AND STEAL YOUR SOUL. IF YOU KNEW WHEN HE WAS COMING YOU WOULD WATCH AND SECURE YOUR SELF SO YOU WOULD ESCAPE THE DECEPTION COMING UPON THE WHOLE WORLD. YOU WOULD WATCH TO MAKE SURE YOU DIDN'T FIND YOURSELF TO BE ONE OF THE DECEIVED.



JUST LIKE WHEN YOU SEE A TREE IN SPRING AND IT STARTS TO SEND OUT NEW SHOOTS AND YOU ARE SO HAPPY BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE COLD DAYS OF WINTER ARE ALMOST BEHIND YOU.

WHEN YOU SEE WARS, AND PESTILENCES, AND EARTHQUAKES IN DIVERS PLACES

THE SPRING IS ALMOST UPON YOU.

THE BIRTH OF A NEW TIME. THE FIRST PANGS OF 'TRIBULATION' ARE UPON US.

FROM THAT POINT ON EVENTS AND CHANGES ARE GOING TO START COMING CLOSER AND CLOSER TOGETHER,
THEN ONE DAY YOU WONT EVEN RECOGNIZE THE WORLD YOU ARE LIVING IN.
GOOD WILL BE EVIL AND EVIL WILL BE GOOD.
SOON THE OPPRESSION AND TRIBULATION WILL START TO BE FELT. WEAR A MASK OR YOU CAN'T....GET THE SHOT OR YOU DON'T WORK...

LIKE

2347. thlipsis
Strong's Concordance
thlipsis: tribulation
Original Word: θλῖψις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: thlipsis
Phonetic Spelling: (thlip'-sis)
Definition: tribulation
Usage: persecution, affliction, distress, tribulation.
HELPS Word-studies
2347 thlípsis – properly, pressure (what constricts or rubs together), used of a narrow place that "hems someone in"; tribulation, especially internal pressure that causes someone to feel confined (restricted, "without options").

2347 /thlípsis ("compression, tribulation") carries the challenge of coping with the internal pressure of a tribulation, especially when feeling there is "no way of escape" ("hemmed in").

[By contrast, 4730 (stenoxōría) focuses on the external pressure exerted by circumstances.]



GOD USES TRIBULATION TO HELP US GET RIGHT WITH HIM.
Amazing how wrong you are on almost every point.
this vid exposes the erroneous Greek text you are using to promote a phony rendering of luke 21


Textus receptus;

kataxiwqhte kataxiOthEte
G2661 vs Aor Pas 2 Pl YE-MAY-BE-BEING-DOWN-WORTHIED ye-may-be-being-deemed-worthy ekfugein ekphugein

G1628 vn 2Aor Act TO-BE-OUT-FLEEING
 
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DON'T SUPPOSED YOU NOTICED THAT CHRIST LEFT WENT TO HEAVEN AND THEN CAME BACK TO EARTH?

DID YOU NOTICE NO OTHER 'TRIPS' WERE MENTIONED? EXACTLY WHAT WOULD NOT BE SAID OR MENTIONED OR HINTED AT OR ANYTHING IF THERE WERE NOT ANOTHER TRIP


NOTHING WAS SAID ABOUT ANYONE OF US GOING UP TO HEAVEN IN A CLOUD. NOTHING WAS SAID OF JESUS COMING AND STOPPING ABOVE US IN A CLOUD AND THEN ASCENDING AGAIN.

THAT IS ALL VANITY AND LIES THAT FOLLOW THE PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE/APOSTASY THEORY.
"like manner"
You made all that smoke screen to omit "like manner"

Pssst...postribbers need horses, war, destroyed planet, and returning with millions of beievers.
Amazing how you automatically get it wrong.
 
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here is

VERSE 1 NOTICE THER IS NO DEPARTURE BEING SPOKEN OF JUST A COMING OF THE LORD AND A GATHERING UNTO HIM.

WE IMPLORE NOW YOU BROTHERS BY THE COMING OF THE Lord of us Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him


here is

VERSE 2 NO DEPARTURE BEING SPOKEN OF JUST A LIST OF 'DON'T LET NOTHING MAKE YOU THINK THE LORDS DAY IS PRESENT' AND HAPPENING NOW

for not quickly to be shaken you in mind nor to be troubled neither by spirit nor by word nor by letter as if by us that is present the day of the Lord


here is
VERSE 3 YOU BEST NOT DECEIVE ANYONE IN ANY WAY BECAUSE IF NOT SHALL HAVE COME A FALLING AWAY


'A FALLING AWAY' IS IN NO WAY ' FLYING AWAY TO HEAVEN' IT ISN'T WRITTEN HERE, IT ISN'T WRITTEN ANYWHERE IT IS A FIGMENT OF THE IMAGINATION.
SERIOUSLY the definition for
'a falling away' is
"AN IMMEDIATE ENDING OF THIS LIFE ON EARTH TO BE REPLACED WITH A LIFE IN HEAVEN FOR 2.3 BILLION PEOPLE ALL AT THE SAME MOMENT"???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????



NO ONE YOU SHOULD DECEIVE IN NOT ONE WAY
BECAUSE IF NOT SHALL HAVE COME THE APOSTASY FIRST AND SHALL HAVE BEEN REVEALED THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS THE SON OF DESTRUCTION



VERSE 1'S SUBJECT

IS NOT A PRE TRIB ANYTHING.

IS NOT A DEPARTING OF ANY SORT

YOU SAY IT IS BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHY.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW YOU SEE IT THERE.
THE WORDS DON'T SAY THAT IN ANY WAY


IN FACT THEY SAY THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF A DEPARTURE THEY ARE SPEAKING TO THE 'COMING' OF THE LORD. THE VERSES ABOVE IT ARE SPEAKING TO THE COMING OF THE LORD. THE DESCRIPTIONS GIVEN ARE ALL ABOUT THE 2ND ADVENT.
Amazing, even your bible choice is a modern version using the Alexandrian text.

SMH
 

Marilyn

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2021
1,120
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No, I don't miss that. No one does. It's not even related to our discussion..



No, God the Father will live in New Jerusalem with his son and holy spirit.
God`s word says that He is Spirit and that He does NOT come down with the city.
 
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2Thessalonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer

BUT YOU WILL ONLY SUFFER UP UNTIL 'DEATH OF THE FLESH.' NO MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE EVER HAS.


6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you

GOD LIKES THAT AS IT IS A RIGHTEOUS THING WITH GOD TO RECOMPENSE TRIBULATION TO THOSE WHO TROUBLE YOU

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,

WHEN THE LORD JESUS IS REVEALED WITH HIS MIGHTY ANGELS. ANY QUESTIONS AS TO WHAT DAY IS BEING SPOKEN OF? THIS IS THE DAY OF VENGEANCE. THE 2ND ADVENT. CAN WE BE SURE?

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

YES, WE CAN. I MEAN CAN EVERYONE BE SURE OF WHAT DAY IS BEING DISCUSSED?

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power;

OK, THAT SETTLES IT, IT IS THE DAY OF VENGEANCE, THE LORDS DAY, THE SUBJECT OF THE DISCUSSION TAKING PLACE

10 When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

HE IS COMING TO BE GLORIFIED IN HIS SAINTS AND TO BE ADMIRED IN ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE (THE ALIVE AND REMAINING FOR SURE) WHY BECAUSE OUR TESTIMONY WAS BELIEVED.

11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling,

THIS IS THE COURSE LAID OUT IN FRONT OF US. THIS IS OUR CALLING

and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness,

HOW MUCH? ALL

and the work of faith with power

IT IS A WORK OF FAITH WITH POWER AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE STRIPED OF IT


12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,

IF IT HAS NOT BEEN MADE CLEAR ENOUGH WHAT IS BEING SPOKEN OF OR WHAT THE SUBJECT IS, PLEASE GO BACK AND RE READ BECAUSE NOT ONE TIME HAS THERE BEEN A SHIFT IN THE SUBJECT AND HERE IT CONTINUES ON. THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY WORD PREVIOUS, THERE IS NOT A WORD HERE AND THERE WILL NOT BE A WORD COMING UP THAT HAS TO DO WITH PRE TRIB ANYTHING.


2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU THE DAY OF THE LORD IS HERE OR HAS BEGAN. DON'T LET THE LAST LETTER, OR WHAT PEOPLE SAY OR ANYTHING

BECAUSE

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

WHAT DAY? SAME SUBJECT FOR THE ENTIRE TWO BOOKS OF THESSALONIANS AND THAT IS THE LORDS DAY, A DAY OF FLAMING FIRE AND TAKING VENGEANCE, THAT DAY HE COMES TO BE GLORIFIED IN HIS SAINTS WHICH WILL ONLY BE COMING

1. AFTER A FALLING AWAY
2. MAN OF SIN REVEALED TO BE THE SON OF PERDITION, SATAN


SO UNTIL THOSE TWO THINGS HAPPEN JESUS DOESN'T LEAVE THE RIGHT SIDE OF GOD AND RETURN AS HE LEFT


4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

9 Even him, WHOSE COMING IS AFTER THE WORKING OF SATAN with all power and signs and lying wonders,
I thank God that we have the word of God ,and do not have to be moved by people like you that reframe His precious word and use the alexandrian text to pervert the bible as we can easily see from the vid I posted.
 
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^ It is NOT saying "caught-up to where THEY will ALREADY be [bodily]" (as if to say, "to meet THEM there")... NO!






[skewing THIS, as well as what it means to be "resurrected," has thrown some of you off course, as to what these texts actually convey]
Hey dw
I thought you might like tthis:
from the 1599 Geneva bible in the footnotes

  1. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 Will call their bodies out of their graves, and join their souls to them again.
  2. 1 Thessalonians 4:15 The manner of the resurrection shall be thus: The bodies of the dead shall be as it were raised out of sleep, at the sound of the trumpet of God, Christ himself shall descend from heaven. The Saints (for he speaketh properly of them) which shall then be found alive together with the dead which shall rise, shall be taken up into the clouds to meet the Lord, and shall be in perpetual glory with him.
  3. 1 Thessalonians 4:15 In the Name of the Lord, as though he himself speaks unto you.
  4. 1 Thessalonians 4:15 He speaketh of these things, as though he should be one of them whom the Lord shall find alive at his coming, because that time is uncertain, and therefore every one of us ought to be in such a readiness, as if the Lord were coming at every moment.
Remember how the postribbers claim pretrib rapture invented in the 1800's?
 
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Notice WHAT WAS NOT SAID? THAT ANY OF THIS TOOK PLACE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION CAME UPON THE WORLD? THAT ALL 10 VIRGINS WERE HERE FOR THE 'BUYING AND SELLING AKA TAKING THE MARK OF THE BEAST'. THAT IT WAS THOSE WHO TOOK THE MARK OF THE BEAST THAT THE DOOR WAS CLOSED TO.

THAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE WATCHING, NOT BEING TAKEN. BECAUSE IF YOU ARE TAKEN IT IS BY THE ONE CHRIST WARNED YOU ABOUT

DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY ANY MAN AKA THE MAN OF SIN

WATCH, DO NOT BE TAKEN.
Notice WHAT WAS NOT SAID? THAT ANY OF THIS TOOK PLACE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION CAME UPON THE WORLD? THAT ALL 10 VIRGINS WERE HERE FOR THE 'BUYING AND SELLING AKA TAKING THE MARK OF THE BEAST'. THAT IT WAS THOSE WHO TOOK THE MARK OF THE BEAST THAT THE DOOR WAS CLOSED TO.
Nothing of the sort is implied there.
Nothing you said fits the parable.

The great trib SCENE IS NOT THERE.
You cant be serious!!!
You NEED the scene to be war, a destroyed earth, and the groom Jesus coming WITH THE SAINTS on millions of horses. How can you completely miss it????

Buy??? You think the story involves money?
It is figurative.
Exactly as Jesus expressed in the following;
rev 3
16 Therefore because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, it will come to pass, that I shall spew thee out of my mouth.

17 For thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing, and knowest not how thou art wretched and miserable, [v]and poor, and blind, and naked.

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried by the fire, that thou mayest be made rich: and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that thy filthy nakedness do not appear: and anoint thine eyes with eye salve, that thou mayest see.

Oil is a type of the Holy Spirit. So the wise are saying to the foolish "go get your own as we did"
They bought nothing.
The wise bought no Holy Spirit.
You are way off.
Besides all that, you mainly have a protocol of "what is not there".

well what is not there, is that they bought anything or obtained any oil at all.
 
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SMOKING GUN??? NO, not even close. WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION FOR THOSE WILLING TO FALL AWAY.

LASER GUIDED MISSLE STRAIGHT FROM GOD TO THIS THREAD.

LORD AND SAVIOR EVERLASTING REDEEMER. - MY LASER, my words.


but YOU ARE PUTTING JESUS UNDER SATAN.



Mark 12:36 Himself David said by the SPIRIT HOLY Said Lord to the Lord of me, UNTIL I PLACE OF THE ENEMIES OF YOU A FOOTSTOOL ON THE FEET OF YOU

5270. hupokató
Strong's Concordance
hupokató: below, under
Original Word: ὑποκάτω
Part of Speech: Adverb
Transliteration: hupokató
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-ok-at'-o)
Definition: below, under
Usage: underneath, below, under.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from hupo and kató
Definition
below, under
NASB Translation
beneath (2), soles (1), under (7), underneath (1).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 5270: ὑποκάτω

ὑποκάτω, under, underneath: τίνος (Winers Grammar, § 54, 6; Buttmann, § 146, 1), Matthew 22:44 L T Tr WH; Mark 6:11; Mark 7:28; (Mark 12:36 WH); Luke 8:16; John 1:50 (); Hebrews 2:8; Revelation 5:3, 13 (Tr marginal reading brackets the clause); . (The Sept.; Plato, Aristotle, Polybius, Diodorus, Plutarch, others) (Cf. Winers Grammar, § 50, 7 N.1; Buttmann, § 146, 4.) BIBLEHUB



Matthew 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
Oh, ok so you are trying to pervert that.

I showed you in revelation 1 where Jesus is standing on the isle of Patmos.

You know, the post where you perverted Gods word to say He did not stand in front of John.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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God`s word says that He is Spirit and that He does NOT come down with the city.

He does come down:

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
 

Marilyn

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2021
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He does come down:

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
By His Holy Spirit.... as He does in us now.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,995
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By His Holy Spirit.... as He does in us now.

No, this is a literal thing that is not what is happening now. God's own tabernacle/home will be on the Earth and he and his son will be the temple of New Jerusalem.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Falling away is now
ac REVEALED Is future
Right. According to 2 Thess 2:1-3, the "coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him" won't occur UNTIL the ac is revealed.

[QUOET]We will all note that "revealed" actually means "revealed". nothing else.[/QUOTE]
I think everyone understands what that word means.

So we could have the rapture right after the revealing or "uncovering" of the ac.
Uh, no. We can't. Rev 20:5 tells us WHEN the FIRST resurrection occurs, which is at the Second Advent.

AHEM, that means a pretrib rapture is 100% factual.
You haven't shown a single "fact" that shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Hey dw
I thought you might like tthis:
from the 1599 Geneva bible in the footnotes

  1. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 Will call their bodies out of their graves, and join their souls to them again.
  2. 1 Thessalonians 4:15 The manner of the resurrection shall be thus: The bodies of the dead shall be as it were raised out of sleep, at the sound of the trumpet of God, Christ himself shall descend from heaven. The Saints (for he speaketh properly of them) which shall then be found alive together with the dead which shall rise, shall be taken up into the clouds to meet the Lord, and shall be in perpetual glory with him.
  3. 1 Thessalonians 4:15 In the Name of the Lord, as though he himself speaks unto you.
  4. 1 Thessalonians 4:15 He speaketh of these things, as though he should be one of them whom the Lord shall find alive at his coming, because that time is uncertain, and therefore every one of us ought to be in such a readiness, as if the Lord were coming at every moment.
Remember how the postribbers claim pretrib rapture invented in the 1800's?
But, no matter how much you wish it, there is NOTHING in this text or any other that shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.

So, there is zero evidence that He will.

And plenty of evidence that the resurrection and glorification will occur at the Second Advent. Not 7 yrs before that.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Right. According to 2 Thess 2:1-3, the "coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him" won't occur UNTIL the ac is revealed.
Rev 20:5 tells us WHEN the FIRST resurrection occurs, which is at the Second Advent.
You haven't shown a single "fact" that shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
Fg quote;
"""Uh, no. We can't. Rev 20:5 tells us WHEN the FIRST resurrection occurs, which is at the Second Advent."""


Since i already showed you that you are wrong, you are now lying about that verse.
You even admitted earlier they were previously resurrected.

Here it is for all to see that there is ZERO about "when":

Rev 20
4.....And I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, nor his image, nor had received his mark upon their foreheads or on their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
It says they are resurrected martyrs and they continue into the mil.
NOTHING ABOUT "WHEN"...ZERO.

Then we see those martyrs ***"INCLUDED AS"***
PART of the 1st resurrection.

Ahem....that lines up totally with the 1st resurrection being several parts.

Your only hope is to find something specific to some wild notion of a resurrection AFTER ARMAGEDDON AND SATAN CHAINED.
There is none.
Nothing.
Zero.

Even the setting of Those verses is after armageddon
Hello...if you say there is one resurrection of those on christ, then you AUTOMATICALLY are making it in stages, In calling some post armageddon resurrection of those in Christ "the first resurrection" ...as the first resurrection meets Jesus IN THE AIR. AT HIS COMING.

You are so busted in your wild assertions.

You no longer have any interest in the truth do you?
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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Right. According to 2 Thess 2:1-3, the "coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him" won't occur UNTIL the ac is revealed.

[QUOET]We will all note that "revealed" actually means "revealed". nothing else.
I think everyone understands what that word means.


Uh, no. We can't. Rev 20:5 tells us WHEN the FIRST resurrection occurs, which is at the Second Advent.


You haven't shown a single "fact" that shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.[/QUOTE]
Heee is Gods word for you to change and reject;

Rev
14 :1 And I looked and lo, a Lamb stood on Mount Zion, and with Him a hundred forty and four thousand, having His Father’s name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from Heaven as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder, and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps.

3 And they sang, as it were, a new song before the throne, and before the four living beings and the elders; and no man could learn that song, except the hundred and forty and four thousand who were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they that were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

reframe it
change it.
you WILL NOT accept it.
 
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