The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[Absolutely]

SMOKING GUN??? NO, not even close. WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION FOR THOSE WILLING TO FALL AWAY.

LASER GUIDED MISSLE STRAIGHT FROM GOD TO THIS THREAD.

LORD AND SAVIOR EVERLASTING REDEEMER. - MY LASER, my words.


but YOU ARE PUTTING JESUS UNDER SATAN.



Mark 12:36 Himself David said by the SPIRIT HOLY Said Lord to the Lord of me, UNTIL I PLACE OF THE ENEMIES OF YOU A FOOTSTOOL ON THE FEET OF YOU

5270. hupokató
Strong's Concordance
hupokató: below, under
Original Word: ὑποκάτω
Part of Speech: Adverb
Transliteration: hupokató
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-ok-at'-o)
Definition: below, under
Usage: underneath, below, under.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from hupo and kató
Definition
below, under
NASB Translation
beneath (2), soles (1), under (7), underneath (1).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 5270: ὑποκάτω

ὑποκάτω, under, underneath: τίνος (Winers Grammar, § 54, 6; Buttmann, § 146, 1), Matthew 22:44 L T Tr WH; Mark 6:11; Mark 7:28; (Mark 12:36 WH); Luke 8:16; John 1:50 (); Hebrews 2:8; Revelation 5:3, 13 (Tr marginal reading brackets the clause); . (The Sept.; Plato, Aristotle, Polybius, Diodorus, Plutarch, others) (Cf. Winers Grammar, § 50, 7 N.1; Buttmann, § 146, 4.) BIBLEHUB



Matthew 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

My previous post Should help you out.
Read it.

 

[kleronomos]

THE BODY OF CHRIST`S INHERITANCE IS IN HEAVEN.

Our inheritance, our hope, our place, our citizenship, all of which are IN HEAVEN.

`...to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you.` (1 Peter 1: 4 )

` ...because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of truth..`(Col. 1: 5)

` ...and raised us up together and made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.`(Eph. 2: 6)

` For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly await for the saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.` (Phil. 3: 20)

(New King James)

And not a single one has to do with A PRE TRIB RAPTURE. NOT ONE. We are not able to take verses and put them forth to try and make them say what WE BELIEVE. Those are the words of GOD and for HIS purpose, not ours.


SERIOUSLY, sit down and TRY TO FIND A SINGLE VERSE THAT MENTIONS CHRIST DOING ANYTHING HERE ON EARTH BEFORE THE TRIBULATION. ANYTHING.

THEN TRY AND FIND A VERSE THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANY SORT OF 'ASCENDING' TO HEAVEN.

IF IT CAN'T BE DONE THEN

EVERYTHING BEING PUT FORTH IS FROM A POISON TREE.



IF THERE IS NOT A SINGLE VERSE to STAND ON then all TEACHING AND PREACHING AND PUTTING FORTH
and MAKING OTHERS TO BELIEVE is a lie.

HEAR YE THE WORD OF THE LORD

Ezekiel 13:2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;

Ezekiel 13:3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

Ezekiel 13:4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.

Ezekiel 13:5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

Ezekiel 13:6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

Ezekiel 13:7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say,


The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?

HOW MANY TIMES WILL YOU DENY IT ISN'T WRITTEN ANYWHERE? IF IT ISN'T WRITTEN

THEN GOD DID NOT SPEAK IT TO US.

THERE IS NOT ONE VERSE THAT SPEAKS TO A PRE TRIB EVENT. NOT ONE VERSE THAT SPEAKS OF THE LORD LEAVING GODS SIDE BEFORE THE DAY OF VENGEANCE BEFORE ALL HIS ENEMIES ARE UNDER HIS FEET. THAT WOULD REQUIRE ALL THOSE IN HEAVEN TO BE CAST OUT.

NOT JUST GOING TO SHAKE THE EARTH BUT HEAVEN TOO.

THE BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST ALONE MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM TO RETURNWITHOUT THE ENTIRE WORLD SEEING IT. REMEMBER 'GLORIFY THY SON'?


Ezekiel 13:8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

PRE TRIB IS VANITY EMPTINESS. It has NO FOUNDATION. Even its walls are made up of lies.

How many times was PAUL delivered from evil? MANY. How many times was he taken to heaven FOR IT? 0

Ezekiel 13:9 And Mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of My people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.


PROPHETS THAT SEE VANITY DON'T EVEN GET TO ENTER INTO THE LAND OF ISRAEL


GOD JUST COVERED WHERE THOSE WHO SEE VANITY WILL NOT BE? THIS COVERS MORE THAN JUST THE 'HOUSE OF ISRAEL' DOESN'T IT?

Ezekiel 13:10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:

DON'T WORRY, THERE WILL ONLY BE PEACE FOR YOU WHEN THE WAR COMES TO THE EARTH BECAUSE YOU WONT BE HERE.


GOD DOESN'T EVEN LIKE WALLS BEING DAUBED WITH UNTEMPERED MORTER AND YOU THINK THE 'CHURCHES' AS THEY WERE DESCRIBED ARE BEING BROUGHT INTO HEAVEN? IF THEY WERE THEY WOULD JUST BE KICKED OUT AGAIN WITH SATAN BEING IN THE STATE THEY ARE DESCRIBED.

 

[kleronomos]

Psssst...
YOU OF COURSE COMPLETELY LEFT OUT WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO.
SMH
read it real slow please.

Rev 1
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Reframe that one.
Any questions?

LIKE UNTO THE SON OF MAN

SLOW ENOUGH FOR YOU

 

[kleronomos]

My previous post Should help you out.
Read it.

THE ONLY THING YOUR POSTS PROVIDE IS MORE AND MORE PROOF

 

[kleronomos]

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

HE WAS BEING PUNISHED BY THE WORLD FOR THE WORD OF GOD AND THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS, SAME THING THAT WILL TAKE PLACE DURING THE TRIBULATION OF SATAN. NO MORE NO LESS.

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

(SABBATH DAY IS RENDERED SABBATH DAY WHEN SABBATH DAY IS WHAT IS MEANT, JUST LIKE CHURCH IS RENDERED CHURCH WHEN CHURCH IS WHAT IS MEANT AND ELDERS IS RENDERED ELDERS WHEN ELDERS IS WHAT IS MEANT.)

(BUT EVER MORE PROOF OF WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW - the pre trib doctrine DOES NOTHING but VOID OUT ALL THE WORDS OF GOD WHERE EVER IT GOES)

Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

 

[kleronomos]

5083. téreó ►
Strong's Concordance
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Definition: to watch over, to guard
Usage: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.
HELPS Word-studies
5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact.


SEE 'FLY AWAY TO HEAVEN' WRITTEN ANYWHERE IN ANY OF THESE?


Jude 1:13 V-RIM/P-3S
GRK: εἰς αἰῶνα τετήρηται
NAS: darkness has been reserved forever.
KJV: to whom is reserved the blackness
INT: to age has been kept

Jude 1:21 V-AMA-2P
GRK: ἀγάπῃ θεοῦ τηρήσατε προσδεχόμενοι τὸ
NAS: keep yourselves in the love
KJV: Keep yourselves in
INT: [the] love of God keep awaiting the

Revelation 1:3 V-PPA-NMP
GRK: προφητείας καὶ τηροῦντες τὰ ἐν
NAS: of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written
KJV: and keep those things which are written
INT: prophecy and keep the things in

Revelation 2:26 V-PPA-NMS
GRK: καὶ ὁ τηρῶν ἄχρι τέλους
NAS: He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds
KJV: and keepeth my
INT: and he that keeps until [the] end

Revelation 3:3 V-PMA-2S
GRK: ἤκουσας καὶ τήρει καὶ μετανόησον
NAS: and heard; and keep [it], and repent.
KJV: heard, and hold fast, and repent.
INT: heard and keep [it] and repent

Revelation 3:8 V-AIA-2S
GRK: δύναμιν καὶ ἐτήρησάς μου τὸν
NAS: power, and have kept My word,
KJV: strength, and hast kept my word,
INT: power and did keep my

Revelation 3:10 V-AIA-2S
GRK: ὅτι ἐτήρησας τὸν λόγον
NAS: Because you have kept the word
KJV: Because thou hast kept the word of my
INT: Because you did keep the word

Revelation 3:10 V-FIA-1S
GRK: κἀγώ σε τηρήσω ἐκ τῆς
NAS: I also will keep you from the hour
KJV: patience, I also will keep thee from
INT: I also you will keep out of the

 

[kleronomos]

Acts 1
8 But ye shall receive power after the Holy Ghost is come upon you; and ye shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
9 And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,
11 who also said, “Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into Heaven

DON'T SUPPOSED YOU NOTICED THAT CHRIST LEFT WENT TO HEAVEN AND THEN CAME BACK TO EARTH?

DID YOU NOTICE NO OTHER 'TRIPS' WERE MENTIONED? EXACTLY WHAT WOULD NOT BE SAID OR MENTIONED OR HINTED AT OR ANYTHING IF THERE WERE NOT ANOTHER TRIP


NOTHING WAS SAID ABOUT ANYONE OF US GOING UP TO HEAVEN IN A CLOUD. NOTHING WAS SAID OF JESUS COMING AND STOPPING ABOVE US IN A CLOUD AND THEN ASCENDING AGAIN.

THAT IS ALL VANITY AND LIES THAT FOLLOW THE PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE/APOSTASY THEORY.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

LET'S SEE
CONCERNING THE DAY OF THE LORD AND OUR GATHERING TO HIM
THE GATHERING TO HIM DOESN'T HAPPEN UNTIL AFTER THE GATHERING TO HIM.
ok

Let the readers observe (again and again... and again...)...

... how kleronomos has completely LEFT OUT the content OF VERSE 2 (in order to supposedly have [us to be saying] it as saying what he spelled out there ^ .... but that the text itself actually DOES NOT SAY nor convey [NOR is it what WE are pointing out that it says!])



Verse 1 - is concerning "the coming [/presence] of OUR Lord Jesus Christ and OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM [that is, IN THE AIR] (it concerns ONLY "US"/"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" and "OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST"--NO ONE ELSE!! [no one else will be participating!!])


Verse 2 - is Paul cautioning the Thessalonians (and us, by extension) not to believe anyone telling them "that THE [EARTHLY-located] DAY OF THE LORD IS PRESENT / IS ALREADY HERE" [that is, present and unfolding upon the EARTH, OVER SOME TIME, in the form of JUDGMENTs]


Verse 3 - is Paul saying, because THAT DAY [the EARTHLY-LOCATED time-period OF JUDGMENTs (from VERSE 2 that klero LEFT OUT!) unfolding upon the earth] will NOT BE PRESENT if not shall have come [the VERSE 1 SUBJECT--THE Departure (i.e. our RAPTURE--IN THE AIR)] *FIRST* AND [distinctly] the man of sin BE REVEALED..." (he is "revealed" at his "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / parousia" 2Th2:9a parallel to OTHER related passages, at the START of the 7 years, aka the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis 'A CERTAIN ONE'"]"... i.e. SEAL #1 at the BEGINNING of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN; Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c]" time-period (i.e. the 7-yr period--so at the START of THAT... the man of sin will "be revealed" THEN)]






When one LEAVES OFF the content OF VERSE 2, it completely CHANGES the flow [and MEANING] of what Paul is ACTUALLY CONVEYING in this text (and this is what kleronomos, and many others, has done / do, again and again... and again... and again...)

 

[kleronomos]

Matt 25
6 And at midnight there was a cry made: ‘Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.’
7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, ‘Give us of your oil, for our lamps are gone out.’
9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘Not so, lest there be not enough for us and you; but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.’
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage, and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us!’
12 But he answered and said, ‘Verily I say unto you, I know you not.’
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh.

Watch and wait for Jesus coming as a bridegroom.
No horses
No warrior
No great tribulation.
No antichrist.

Notice WHAT WAS NOT SAID? THAT ANY OF THIS TOOK PLACE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION CAME UPON THE WORLD? THAT ALL 10 VIRGINS WERE HERE FOR THE 'BUYING AND SELLING AKA TAKING THE MARK OF THE BEAST'. THAT IT WAS THOSE WHO TOOK THE MARK OF THE BEAST THAT THE DOOR WAS CLOSED TO.

THAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE WATCHING, NOT BEING TAKEN. BECAUSE IF YOU ARE TAKEN IT IS BY THE ONE CHRIST WARNED YOU ABOUT

DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY ANY MAN AKA THE MAN OF SIN

WATCH, DO NOT BE TAKEN.

 

[kleronomos]

Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Watch also at every season praying that YOU MAY HAVE STRENGTH to escape these things that are about to come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man

2729. katischuó
Strong's Concordance
katischuó: to overpower
Original Word: κατισχύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katischuó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-is-khoo'-o)
Definition: to overpower
Usage: I prevail against, overpower, get the upper hand.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from kata and ischuó
Definition
to overpower
NASB Translation
have strength (1), overpower (1), prevail (1).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2729: κατισχύω

κατισχύω: imperfect κατίσχυον; future κατισχύσω; 1 aorist subjunctive 2 person plural κατισχύσητε (Luke 21:36 T Tr text WH); the Sept. mostly for חָזַק; among Greek writings especially by Polybius, Diodorus, Dionysius Halicarnassus; properly, to be strong to another's detriment, to prevail against; to be superior in strength; to overpower: followed by an infinitive, Luke 21:36 T Tr text WH (prevail (i. e. have full strength) to escape etc.); to overcome, τίνος (Jeremiah 15:18), Matthew 16:18 (meaning, 'not even the gates of Hades — than which nothing was supposed to be stronger — shall surpass the church in strength'); absolutely, to prevail (i. e. succeed, accomplish one's desire): Luke 23:23.




DON'T BE ONE OF THE FOOLISH VIRGINS THAT DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH OIL OR GOSPEL ARMOR TO ESCAPE THE FLOOD OF LIES SATAN WILL BE SPEWING OUT OF HIS MOUTH AND FOUND THEMSELVES HAVING BEEN DECEIVED.

WATCH BUT DON'T BE TAKEN.

WATCH, DON'T BE DECEIVED.

WATCH TO MAKE SURE THE THIEF DOESN'T BREAK INTO YOUR 'HOUSE/BODY/MIND' AND STEAL YOUR SOUL. IF YOU KNEW WHEN HE WAS COMING YOU WOULD WATCH AND SECURE YOUR SELF SO YOU WOULD ESCAPE THE DECEPTION COMING UPON THE WHOLE WORLD. YOU WOULD WATCH TO MAKE SURE YOU DIDN'T FIND YOURSELF TO BE ONE OF THE DECEIVED.



JUST LIKE WHEN YOU SEE A TREE IN SPRING AND IT STARTS TO SEND OUT NEW SHOOTS AND YOU ARE SO HAPPY BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE COLD DAYS OF WINTER ARE ALMOST BEHIND YOU.

WHEN YOU SEE WARS, AND PESTILENCES, AND EARTHQUAKES IN DIVERS PLACES

THE SPRING IS ALMOST UPON YOU.

THE BIRTH OF A NEW TIME. THE FIRST PANGS OF 'TRIBULATION' ARE UPON US.

FROM THAT POINT ON EVENTS AND CHANGES ARE GOING TO START COMING CLOSER AND CLOSER TOGETHER,
THEN ONE DAY YOU WONT EVEN RECOGNIZE THE WORLD YOU ARE LIVING IN.
GOOD WILL BE EVIL AND EVIL WILL BE GOOD.
SOON THE OPPRESSION AND TRIBULATION WILL START TO BE FELT. WEAR A MASK OR YOU CAN'T....GET THE SHOT OR YOU DON'T WORK...

LIKE

2347. thlipsis
Strong's Concordance
thlipsis: tribulation
Original Word: θλῖψις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: thlipsis
Phonetic Spelling: (thlip'-sis)
Definition: tribulation
Usage: persecution, affliction, distress, tribulation.
HELPS Word-studies
2347 thlípsis – properly, pressure (what constricts or rubs together), used of a narrow place that "hems someone in"; tribulation, especially internal pressure that causes someone to feel confined (restricted, "without options").

2347 /thlípsis ("compression, tribulation") carries the challenge of coping with the internal pressure of a tribulation, especially when feeling there is "no way of escape" ("hemmed in").

[By contrast, 4730 (stenoxōría) focuses on the external pressure exerted by circumstances.]



GOD USES TRIBULATION TO HELP US GET RIGHT WITH HIM.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Hm. Where, exactly, do you find anything about Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven here? I am not seeing any words that can mean that.

That's because you are trying to be deliberately dense. However, if you do not like the idea of going to Heaven, just let God know.

 

[kleronomos]

Verse 1 - is concerning "the coming [/presence] of OUR Lord Jesus Christ and OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM [that is, IN THE AIR] (it concerns ONLY "US"/"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" and "OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST"--NO ONE ELSE!! [no one else will be participating!!])

SO YOU SAY, SO YOU SAY, SO YOU SAY.


SHOW US ALL WHERE

GOD, THE WORDS OF GOD, SCRIPTURE, VERSES, IT IS WRITTEN,

TELLS US

'IN THE AIR'

MEANS ANY THING OTHER THAN

'THE ALIVE AND REMAINING'


LET ME SHOW YOU WHERE


IT IS WRITTEN, SCRIPTURE, A VERSE


1Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


THE ALIVE AND REMAINING ARE TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR.

THAT ISN'T 'THE CHURCH'.


YOU SEEM TO FORGET THE BLINDNESS COMING OFF OF PARTS OF ISRAEL.

YOU SEEM TO FORGET THOSE WHO ARE SAVED BUT HAVE BECOME THE 'DEAD/SLEEPING/RISEN'

ARE RETURNING WITH HIM WHEN HE COMES HE IS COMING IN CLOUDS. HE IS COMING FOR THE DAY OF VENGEANCE. THERE ARE ARMIES WITH HIM.



and so shall we ever be with the Lord. WHY HAS CHRIST AND ALL HIS ARMIES AND THE RISEN DEAD COME BACK?

IT IS THE DAY OF THE LORD. IT IS AFTER THE WORKINGS OF SATAN. IT IS AFTER SATAN HAS BEEN PUT UNDER HIS FEET.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

"caught-up TOGETHER [G260] WITH [G4862]" means "snatched AT THE SAME TIME" that they will be ("them" being: "the dead IN Christ" now "[BODILY] RESURRECTED" *FIRST* before we're all CAUGHT-UP TOGETHER AT THE SAME MOMENT... TO the MEETING OF THE LORD)





[quoting from BibleHub]

"In 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Thessalonians 5:10, where ἅμα is followed by σύν, ἅμα is an adverb (at the same time) and must be joined to the verb."

-- https://biblehub.com/greek/260.htm








-- https://biblehub.com/text/1_thessalonians/4-17.htm

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ It is NOT saying "caught-up to where THEY will ALREADY be [bodily]" (as if to say, "to meet THEM there")... NO!






[skewing THIS, as well as what it means to be "resurrected," has thrown some of you off course, as to what these texts actually convey]

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Apparently I wasn't clear enough. To be "quickened" in biblical terminology means to be "made alive", as in regeneration.
We are guided by the Holy Spirit. Not "quickened".
Believers are only quickened by the Spirit once. At the moment of salvation.

I do believe Romans 8:11's use of this word refers to more than just that ^ ... where is says, "shall quicken [G2227] YOUR MORTAL BODIES" (the ones we still live in, in the here and now), going on to say, "by means of His Spirit dwelling in you"

This verse is referring to the physical body being glorified.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Hm. Where, exactly, do you find anything about Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven here? I am not seeing any words that can mean that.

That's because you are trying to be deliberately dense.

Tell you what. In order to prove that you are not DENSE, please show me the exact words that mean Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven. If you can't do that, and only think the verse says that, it pretty DENSE in itself.

However, if you do not like the idea of going to Heaven, just let God know.

Real dense.

I'm guessing that you won't be able to show the words that show Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.

 

[kleronomos]

Verse 2 - is Paul cautioning the Thessalonians (and us, by extension) not to believe anyone telling them "that THE [EARTHLY-located] DAY OF THE LORD IS PRESENT / IS ALREADY HERE" [that is, present and unfolding upon the EARTH, OVER SOME TIME, in the form of JUDGMENTs]

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ANY MORE. I AM LEAVING OUT NOTHING AND CHANGING NOTHING AND NOT SAYING THAT THE DAY OF THE LORD WAS HAPPENING 2000 YEARS AGO, THE DAY OF THE LORD IS THE LAST DAY OF THIS AGE. I AM NOT NOR HAVE EVER SAID ANYTHING TO MAKE ANYONE THINK THE DAY OF THE LORD WAS HAPPENING ANYWHERE BUT HERE ON EARTH SO WHATEVER THAT IS I DON'T KNOW. WHY ANYONE WOULD EVER THINK THE DAY OF THE LORD WAS NOT ABOUT THE EARTH I HAVE NO IDEA.



11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;

12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

NOT THE CHURCH THAT HAS 'BEEN RAPTURED' BUT THOSE WHO HAVE DIED


14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

WHY IS EVERYONE COMING TO THE EARTH? BECAUSE THE AGE IS ABOUT TO END. SATAN IS ABOUT TO BE BOUND. THE LORDS DAY IS ABOUT TO BEGIN ON EARTH.

IF JESUS WERE COMING TO 'RAPTURE THE CHURCH' THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR ALL THE SAINTS AND ANGELS AND ARMIES TO BE COMING WITH HIM WOULD THERE AS THERE WOULD BE NO WAR GOING ON. HE WOULD JUST BE COMING TO PICK UP SOME MORE OF 'HIS BODY'. NOT THAT HE WOULD HAVE ALL OF HIS BODY AT THAT TIME AS SOME OF THOSE CHURCHES MOST DEFINITELY WEREN'T FLYING AWAY BUT BEING SPIT OUT. NOTHER SUBJECT NOTHER TIMEM


5 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

HERE IS WHAT THE LORD SAYS, THOSE WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAINING WHEN HE COMES AREN'T STOPPING THOSE WHO HAVE DIED

FROM GOING TO BE WITH HIM ,

JUST AS THE ALIVE AND REMAINING WILL BE WITH HIM IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE


16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

THAT MEANS EVERYONE WHO ISN'T DEAD AND RISEN BUT IS ALIVE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH IS CHANGED IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE.

THAT WOULD BE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS, ALL WHO ARE SAVED AND ALL WHO WERE BLIND AND ALL LOST SHEEP ALL OF THOSE LEFT ALIVE AND REMAINING BECAUSE

HEAVEN HAS ARRIVED AND IS NOW ON EARTH. THE LAST CONTRACTION HAS TAKEN PLACE AND THE NEW DAY HAS BEEN BORN.


18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

THE SUBJECT OF THE LORDS DAY CONTINUES

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

THE SUBJECT OF THE LORDS DAY CONTINUES

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

THE LORDS DAY IS UPON WHEN PEACE AND SAFETY IS HEARD

THIS DAY THE LORDS DAY IS NOT UPON THEM AND PAUL IS NOT SAYING IT IS HE IS TALKING FUTURE


4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

AS A THIEF. THAT DAY SHOULD NOT OVERTAKE YOU, THE SAVED, AS A THIEF. THAT DAY WILL COME UPON YOU NO DOUBT. BUT NOT AS A THIEF

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO SLEEP, WE ARE NOT GOING TO PRE TRIB RAPTURE AWAY EITHER, WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE DRUNKEN IN THE NIGHT,

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?

WE ARE GOING TO BE PUTTING ON THE BREASTPLATE OF FAITH AND LOVE, AND A HELMET, THE HOPE OF SALVATION, NOT THE RIDE OF SALVATION TO HEAVEN. WHAT ARE BREASTPLATES AND HELMETS FOR? THEY ARE BATTLE GEAR.


9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


HOW IS SALVATION OBTAINED? THROUGH PRE TRIB RAPTURE? NOT ACCORDING TO ANYTHING WRITTEN SO FAR. IT IS THROUGH FAITH AND HOPE

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

WE LIVE WITH HIM ALREADY. WE ARE IN HEAVENLY PLACES ALREADY. WE DON'T NEED TO BE CHANGED AND PRE TRIB RAPTURED TO BE WITH HIM AND FOR GODS WRATH TO NOT FALL UPON US BECAUSE GODS WRATH IS NOT GOING TO FALL UPON THOSE WHO HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT DWELLING WITHIN THEM. THAT WOULD BE LIKE GOD PUNISHING GOD.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

[kleronomos]

2Thessalonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer

BUT YOU WILL ONLY SUFFER UP UNTIL 'DEATH OF THE FLESH.' NO MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE EVER HAS.


6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you

GOD LIKES THAT AS IT IS A RIGHTEOUS THING WITH GOD TO RECOMPENSE TRIBULATION TO THOSE WHO TROUBLE YOU

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,

WHEN THE LORD JESUS IS REVEALED WITH HIS MIGHTY ANGELS. ANY QUESTIONS AS TO WHAT DAY IS BEING SPOKEN OF? THIS IS THE DAY OF VENGEANCE. THE 2ND ADVENT. CAN WE BE SURE?

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

YES, WE CAN. I MEAN CAN EVERYONE BE SURE OF WHAT DAY IS BEING DISCUSSED?

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power;

OK, THAT SETTLES IT, IT IS THE DAY OF VENGEANCE, THE LORDS DAY, THE SUBJECT OF THE DISCUSSION TAKING PLACE

10 When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

HE IS COMING TO BE GLORIFIED IN HIS SAINTS AND TO BE ADMIRED IN ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE (THE ALIVE AND REMAINING FOR SURE) WHY BECAUSE OUR TESTIMONY WAS BELIEVED.

11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling,

THIS IS THE COURSE LAID OUT IN FRONT OF US. THIS IS OUR CALLING

and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness,

HOW MUCH? ALL

and the work of faith with power

IT IS A WORK OF FAITH WITH POWER AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE STRIPED OF IT


12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,

IF IT HAS NOT BEEN MADE CLEAR ENOUGH WHAT IS BEING SPOKEN OF OR WHAT THE SUBJECT IS, PLEASE GO BACK AND RE READ BECAUSE NOT ONE TIME HAS THERE BEEN A SHIFT IN THE SUBJECT AND HERE IT CONTINUES ON. THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY WORD PREVIOUS, THERE IS NOT A WORD HERE AND THERE WILL NOT BE A WORD COMING UP THAT HAS TO DO WITH PRE TRIB ANYTHING.


2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU THE DAY OF THE LORD IS HERE OR HAS BEGAN. DON'T LET THE LAST LETTER, OR WHAT PEOPLE SAY OR ANYTHING

BECAUSE

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

WHAT DAY? SAME SUBJECT FOR THE ENTIRE TWO BOOKS OF THESSALONIANS AND THAT IS THE LORDS DAY, A DAY OF FLAMING FIRE AND TAKING VENGEANCE, THAT DAY HE COMES TO BE GLORIFIED IN HIS SAINTS WHICH WILL ONLY BE COMING

1. AFTER A FALLING AWAY
2. MAN OF SIN REVEALED TO BE THE SON OF PERDITION, SATAN

SO UNTIL THOSE TWO THINGS HAPPEN JESUS DOESN'T LEAVE THE RIGHT SIDE OF GOD AND RETURN AS HE LEFT


4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

9 Even him, WHOSE COMING IS AFTER THE WORKING OF SATAN with all power and signs and lying wonders,

 

[kleronomos]

Verse 3 - is Paul saying, because THAT DAY [the EARTHLY-LOCATED time-period OF JUDGMENTs (from VERSE 2 that klero LEFT OUT!) unfolding upon the earth] will NOT BE PRESENT if not shall have come [the VERSE 1 SUBJECT--THE Departure (i.e. our RAPTURE--IN THE AIR)] *FIRST* AND [distinctly] the man of sin BE REVEALED..." (he is "revealed" at his "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / parousia" 2Th2:9a parallel to OTHER related passages, at the START of the 7 years, aka the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis 'A CERTAIN ONE'"]"... i.e. SEAL #1 at the BEGINNING of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN; Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c]" time-period (i.e. the 7-yr period--so at the START of THAT... the man of sin will "be revealed" THEN)]

here is

VERSE 1 NOTICE THER IS NO DEPARTURE BEING SPOKEN OF JUST A COMING OF THE LORD AND A GATHERING UNTO HIM.

WE IMPLORE NOW YOU BROTHERS BY THE COMING OF THE Lord of us Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him


here is

VERSE 2 NO DEPARTURE BEING SPOKEN OF JUST A LIST OF 'DON'T LET NOTHING MAKE YOU THINK THE LORDS DAY IS PRESENT' AND HAPPENING NOW

for not quickly to be shaken you in mind nor to be troubled neither by spirit nor by word nor by letter as if by us that is present the day of the Lord


here is
VERSE 3 YOU BEST NOT DECEIVE ANYONE IN ANY WAY BECAUSE IF NOT SHALL HAVE COME A FALLING AWAY

'A FALLING AWAY' IS IN NO WAY ' FLYING AWAY TO HEAVEN' IT ISN'T WRITTEN HERE, IT ISN'T WRITTEN ANYWHERE IT IS A FIGMENT OF THE IMAGINATION.
SERIOUSLY the definition for
'a falling away' is
"AN IMMEDIATE ENDING OF THIS LIFE ON EARTH TO BE REPLACED WITH A LIFE IN HEAVEN FOR 2.3 BILLION PEOPLE ALL AT THE SAME MOMENT"???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????



NO ONE YOU SHOULD DECEIVE IN NOT ONE WAY
BECAUSE IF NOT SHALL HAVE COME THE APOSTASY FIRST AND SHALL HAVE BEEN REVEALED THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS THE SON OF DESTRUCTION



VERSE 1'S SUBJECT

IS NOT A PRE TRIB ANYTHING.

IS NOT A DEPARTING OF ANY SORT

YOU SAY IT IS BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHY.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW YOU SEE IT THERE.
THE WORDS DON'T SAY THAT IN ANY WAY

IN FACT THEY SAY THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF A DEPARTURE THEY ARE SPEAKING TO THE 'COMING' OF THE LORD. THE VERSES ABOVE IT ARE SPEAKING TO THE COMING OF THE LORD. THE DESCRIPTIONS GIVEN ARE ALL ABOUT THE 2ND ADVENT.

 

[Marilyn]

Not some people, ALL people. Even the Trinity will live on the new Earth.

You seem to miss that the city comes down out of heaven FROM GOD. It is only by His Spirit that God dwells with people on the earth, and in the city. (Rev. 21: 2)

`God is SPIRIT.` (John 4: 24)