Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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FreeGrace2

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brightfame52 said:
A Saviour saves not make Salvation available.
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It's all about grace, which calvinism seems to know nothing about.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

Eph 2-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Calvinism doesn't accept that God's grace OFFERS salvation to everyone.
Calvinism demands that salvation is unconditional by God. Scripture says we are saved by GRACE, which is through faith.

Calvinistic claims are unbiblical.
 
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FreeGrace2

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rogerg said:
The proof is the verse itself. The "it is" isn't there.
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Check any interlinear. "it is" is in brackets, which shows the meaning is there. Are you trying to argue that the gift ISN'T of God???

The "gift of God" refers back to and clarifies the "not of". Not of themselves but of God - "of" means:

  1. out of, from, by, away from
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You have no idea what you are talking about.
 
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rogerg

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FreeGrace2 said:
Check any interlinear. "it is" is in brackets, which shows the meaning is there. Are you trying to argue that the gift ISN'T of God???
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I am saying the verse means the receiving of salvation AND faith are by God - the receiving of them is God's process (that is the "that") and is manifested in the receiving of God.
 
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FreeGrace2

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rogerg said:
I am saying the verse means the receiving of salvation AND faith are by God - the receiving of them is God's process (that is the "that") and is manifested in the receiving of God.
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And I showed that salvation is the gift. There are no verses that say faith is a gift.

God created man with a conscience with which to make CHOICES. Faith is a choice. A choice to trust what God says.

Man believes with his heart. Faith is trust. Man chooses to either believe what God says or not.

Calvinism at its core is a system of puppetry or robotics. Not biblical.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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rogerg said:
I am saying the verse means the receiving of salvation AND faith are by God - the receiving of them is God's process (that is the "that") and is manifested in the receiving of God.
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Scripture please.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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rogerg said:
I am saying the verse means the receiving of salvation AND faith are by God - the receiving of them is God's process (that is the "that") and is manifested in the receiving of God.
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Eph 2:8 the main point is salvation and is by grace received through faith. The word "through" plays an important role here. It means faith is the medium or by the instrumentality how a person receives salvation. It is not the one that is received.it is salvation.
 
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rogerg

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fredoheaven said:
Eph 2:8 the main point is salvation and is by grace received through faith. The word "through" plays an important role here. It means faith is the medium or by the instrumentality how a person receives salvation. It is not the one that is received.it is salvation.
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No, by the receiving of the gift of God is how one becomes saved. I am not addressing how anyone becomes chosen for that, only that those who are receive Him. My point of view on how that occurs has been made clear many times previously.
I think the main point of the verse is to enlighten us to the process of salvation, the product of which is salvation. The verse tells us the process itself was not of themselves but of God: " and that not of yourselves", in other words, it is God's process and nothing that they (or we) can do, only God can: Faith and salvation are received of that process. "It is the gift (singular) of God" - in other words, God Himself being the gift. However, it also informs that with God as the gift, faith and salvation come from Him, but that faith was Christ's faith not theirs.
By the verse saying the "gift of God", it told the Ephesians to disregard thoughts they might have of their salvation originating from them.
 
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rogerg

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John146 said:
Many times but not in the context of believing.
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[Jhn 6:29 KJV] "29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
That do it?
 
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John146

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rogerg said:
God's work for a man to believe.
Faith is a work
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Were these Israelites elected to believe or was that God’s doing? Why did they need a sign to believe?

Exodus 4:
4 And the Lord said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand:
5 That they may believe that the Lord God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee.
 
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rogerg

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John146 said:
Were these Israelites elected to believe or was that God’s doing?
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I don't understand your question? Election is God's doing and from that, those elected, at a time of God's choosing, believe.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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rogerg said:
No, by the receiving of the gift of God is how one becomes saved. I am not addressing how anyone becomes chosen for that, only that those who are receive Him. My point of view on how that occurs has been made clear many times previously.
I think the main point of the verse is to enlighten us to the process of salvation, the product of which is salvation. The verse tells us the process itself was not of themselves but of God: " and that not of yourselves", in other words, it is God's process and nothing that they (or we) can do, only God can: Faith and salvation are received of that process. "It is the gift (singular) of God" - in other words, God Himself being the gift. However, it also informs that with God as the gift, faith and salvation come from Him, but that faith was Christ's faith not theirs.
By the verse saying the "gift of God", it told the Ephesians to disregard thoughts they might have of their salvation originating from them.
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Of course, you did not address that "through", then, saying, this gift is singular but you are trying to tweak "salvation and faith" (plural) as singular. You need to choose, the "gift (singular) of God" is either salvation or faith. God's pattern of this gift of God as said never refer to faith. It is salvation or eternal life, Holy Spirit etc. but not used as faith.
 
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peldom10

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rogerg said:
No, by the receiving of the gift of God is how one becomes saved. I am not addressing how anyone becomes chosen for that, only that those who are receive Him. My point of view on how that occurs has been made clear many times previously.
I think the main point of the verse is to enlighten us to the process of salvation, the product of which is salvation. The verse tells us the process itself was not of themselves but of God: " and that not of yourselves", in other words, it is God's process and nothing that they (or we) can do, only God can: Faith and salvation are received of that process. "It is the gift (singular) of God" - in other words, God Himself being the gift. However, it also informs that with God as the gift, faith and salvation come from Him, but that faith was Christ's faith not theirs.
By the verse saying the "gift of God", it told the Ephesians to disregard thoughts they might have of their salvation originating from them.
Click to expand...
Properly expressed:.......enlighten us to the process of grace/forgiveness, the product of which is salvation....

Just so the novice is not confused.
 
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