Observations on the Holocaust

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ZNP

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#21
Even in 1935, when the Nazis were putting pressure for the Jews to leave Germany, the Nazis wouldn't allow any emigrating Jews to take any of their possessions/assets with them. How could the Jews leave and move elsewhere, with no assets, no job, and again, where would they go? Even in 1935 no countries wanted to take the German Jews.
Once again, this is based on the natural sight. If you are in fellowship with the Lord just like the angel that warned Lot to get out of Sodom you would have been warned. Lot left everything behind. The word Hebrew means river crosser. We are supposed to live the life of "the altar and the tent" meaning we do not set down roots, we don't build giant houses with extensive foundations. This world is not our home, we are simply passing through. If you have that attitude and live that way then it is not that hard to move.
 

Rhomphaeam

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#22
Religious Judaism borrowed from the mystery religions during the Babylonian captivity and became something other than the faith prescribed by God to the Hebrews.

The way they do circumcision now is vulgar, abominable, immoral. And I've read about child sacrifices in some of the more occulted circles. I wonder if some of this resulted in what you describe, a sort of generalization of all Jews (ethnic) based on the heinous sins of a few religious Jews practicing some of the darker elements of that religion.
It would take a library to document and correlate these precepts you raise here. The occult predication from the Assyrian Captivity of Israel in the 8th Century BC is the start of an occidental occult meaning that was transported around many places by Jews (and Greek thinking through men like Pythagoras) - who were able to migrate from their captivity - but were not included in the return of those who came back from Babylon who were included in the removal of Judah at the time of Jeremiah. As the Hebrew influence came to bear on Assyrian culture we have the beginnings of what today is called the Cabalistic occult practise of divination and sorcery. It is this particularly occidental understanding of the occult which is grounded in a knowledge of the creation of the heavens and the earth in its true revelatory Hebraic meaning. That same occult predication was also included in the German people and played a large part in Nazi pagan claims, Not just the European and Germanic myths but an express occult belief in the utility of material resource directed by an essential animist view.

Religious Judaism as you prescribe its meaning was visible in the day of the Lord - yet it was essentially the will of God to bring the remnant back into Judah and the rebuilding of the second Temple. That account it biblical. What is often misunderstood is that when we depend on inter testament literature - which is often occult in many of its implications - we do what the German theologians and philosophers did in Germany - we write down that world view and it serves to produce the very political philosophy Hitler endorsed along with millions of intellectual Germans.

When I read threads such as this one it makes me groan inwardly because the ambition is to garner a claim that because many of these intellectual Jews who ultimately failed to respond to the antisemitic realities of Nazism - did so because they were not in a relationship with God. That inference is as antisemitic as Nazism was and it is being used here to uphold a political claim in the USA which is outlined in the opening post very clearly.

The first time I watched this I was struck, why didn't they leave when they had the chance. This time it was so evident, they were faithless. I don't mean that in a negative way, they were Jews and yet the word of God had absolutely no place in their lives. They describe how they were patriotic, educated, pillars of society but not a peep about their faith or time on the word.
That claim is entirely grounded in precepts of patriotism - but Christian patriotism. No Christian is called by God to raise that kind of claim and then to continuously press it in a variety of ways as the author of this OP has done on this forum. So even great reformers come in for the claim to antisemitism - And the Christian Patriot become the hero. May the Lord have mercy.
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
#23
Once again, this is based on the natural sight. If you are in fellowship with the Lord just like the angel that warned Lot to get out of Sodom you would have been warned. Lot left everything behind. The word Hebrew means river crosser. We are supposed to live the life of "the altar and the tent" meaning we do not set down roots, we don't build giant houses with extensive foundations. This world is not our home, we are simply passing through. If you have that attitude and live that way then it is not that hard to move.
Not sure if God gives a warning all the time for people to get out before destruction. We can apply this thought to other scenarios, like 9/11, war battles, etc., plane crash, innocent person in path of drunk driver, etc., and it doesn't seem quite right to say all those people died due to lack of faith. Plenty of Christians are victims in these type of scenarios as well.

The blame is more on the evil actors, like the Nazis.
 

Rhomphaeam

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#24
Once again, this is based on the natural sight. If you are in fellowship with the Lord just like the angel that warned Lot to get out of Sodom you would have been warned. Lot left everything behind. The word Hebrew means river crosser. We are supposed to live the life of "the altar and the tent" meaning we do not set down roots, we don't build giant houses with extensive foundations. This world is not our home, we are simply passing through. If you have that attitude and live that way then it is not that hard to move.
So how come it took a mandated requirement to be vaccinated as a school teacher of many years standing in the Bronx to suddenly move? You missed the entire preparation of the time we are living - right under your nose. If you didn't miss it - then you must have had some deep roots because your tree was only torn up by a simple mandate in law of less than two weeks standing to make you flee to another place.
 

ZNP

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#25
Not sure if God gives a warning all the time for people to get out before destruction. We can apply this thought to other scenarios, like 9/11, war battles, etc., plane crash, innocent person in path of drunk driver, etc., and it doesn't seem quite right to say all those people died due to lack of faith. Plenty of Christians are victims in these type of scenarios as well.

The blame is more on the evil actors, like the Nazis.
This is not about blame. There is a consequence to rejecting the savior. There is a truth when Peter says that there is salvation in no other name.

9 But there shall be no gloom to her that was in anguish. In the former time he brought into contempt the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali; but in the latter time hath he made it glorious, by the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations. 2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwelt in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. 3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, thou hast increased their joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, as men rejoice when they divide the spoil. 4 For the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, thou hast broken as in the day of Midian. 5 For all the armor of the armed man in the tumult, and the garments rolled in blood, shall be for burning, for fuel of fire. 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of Jehovah of hosts will perform this.

They rejected this great light. Think about how marvelous, how wonderful this counselor is telling us two thousand years before it happened what would happen. He told the Jews what would happen if they rejected Him and He has given us the counsel that we can follow in this very dark time. We have a sure word of prophecy.

8 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel. 9 And all the people shall know, even Ephraim and the inhabitant of Samaria, that say in pride and in stoutness of heart, 10 The bricks are fallen, but we will build with hewn stone; the sycomores are cut down, but we will put cedars in their place. 11 Therefore Jehovah will set up on high against him the adversaries of Rezin, and will stir up his enemies, 12 the Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

This incredible prophecy was repeated several times after 9/11, it is a word of pride and arrogance that we will rebuild without the Lord. It applies equally to the Jews as to the Americans. Instead of receiving the Lord's rebuke in humility and admitting your error they go forth in the hardness of their heart.

13 Yet the people have not turned unto him that smote them, neither have they sought Jehovah of hosts. 14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel head and tail, palm-branch and rush, in one day. 15 The elder and the honorable man, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail. 16 For they that lead this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed. 17 Therefore the Lord will not rejoice over their young men, neither will he have compassion on their fatherless and widows; for every one is profane and an evil-doer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

Compare these prophets who are liars with the Lord Jesus and the apostles whose fellowship was as the finest gold. Even two thousand years later it is as good as the day they spoke it. Instead the leaders we have cause the people to err, they mislead the people and the people like to be misled. Imagine rejecting Jesus and choosing Biden? is that not a sick joke?

This is simply an undeniable fact, they have chosen to not be led by Jesus. Even though Jesus came to them, even though they were given many, many proofs that this was the one promised to them, they rejected Him and look where it led them? When you see the horrors to the Jews in Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Russia, etc it is undeniable that they were walking in darkness without good counsel.
 

Nehemiah6

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#26
They describe how they were patriotic, educated, pillars of society but not a peep about their faith or time on the word.
That is because they rejected the Lord Jesus Christ. The curse which unbelieving Jews brought upon themselves and their children (meaning succeeding generations) when they cried for the crucifixion of Christ ultimately resulted in the Holocaust. This fact does not in any way exonerate the anti-Semitism of Europeans nor the evil deeds of Hitler and his Nazis. Had Europe's Jews genuinely repented and turned to Christ for salvation, things could have turned out differently.
 

ZNP

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#27
That is because they rejected the Lord Jesus Christ. The curse which unbelieving Jews brought upon themselves and their children (meaning succeeding generations) when they cried for the crucifixion of Christ ultimately resulted in the Holocaust. This fact does not in any way exonerate the anti-Semitism of Europeans nor the evil deeds of Hitler and his Nazis. Had Europe's Jews genuinely repented and turned to Christ for salvation, things could have turned out differently.
It is not just that. I picked up a snide remark made in part 2 where one of the Jewish characters makes fun of the Zionists who want to establish a homeland in Israel. This was a movement that had gone on since 1917 and yet for these successful Jews in Germany it seemed a joke to leave Germany to move to Israel.

I saw a wonderful teaching on the Jews returning to Israel from Babylon after 70 years. Apparently the books of Moses talk about this that if they had received the Lord's punishment humbly and after 70 years had returned then that would have been that, but if they don't he multiplies the number of years and that multiplied number of years actually takes them all the way to 1948. We see the same thing prior to the holocaust, they could have easily gone to Israel from 1917 to 1935, but it was a joke, they laughed at that, they rejected wholly their covenant with God.
 

ZNP

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#28
A Holocaust is a "burnt offering" it is burned completely on the altar. You can take up your cross and follow the Lord willingly which could have meant selling your house and business in Germany and moving to Israel when it is nothing but a forsaken land. Yes there is a price to pay, yes it is a sacrifice, but if you don't follow the lord willingly look at the sacrifice made by those who stayed in Germany.
 

Gardenias

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#29
Had THEY NOT rejected Jesus as THEIR Messiah,we would NOT be grafted into the ORIGINAL vine,Jesus.

Nothing that has been done since creation has been a mistake on God's part. His plan WILL GO FORTH,even if many fall by the wayside regardless their ethnicity.

I have heard people hating on the Jews all my life bc their richer or own more,same excuse as Hitler.
It is bc God is still blessing and fulfilling his promises to them.

I've seen anti-Semitism from supposed born again people,it is disheartening,for Jesus was a JEW of the lineage of David,and he took up the cross of sin and death for ALL men.

We all become complacent or content in our places in life and have a fear of upsetting and uprooting bc of hatred.
 

ZNP

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#30
In the third part there is a very interesting account. The Jewish council in Warsaw is working with the Germans following their rules as they are being kept in the Ghetto and treated abusively with horrific laws executing people who smuggle food into the Ghetto to feed themselves. The people in charge of the executions are "converted Jews". He points out that he is simply following orders which is the same thing that the Jewish council is doing. The leaders misled the Jews, they should have given them the strong word that it was time to return to Israel in 1917. This should have been the word year after year for the next ten years. But think about it, suppose these very successful Jews had done that, it would have seemed like foolishness. The Jewish council with all their pretense to wisdom would have seemed like fools if they recommended that. As a result they all had the pretense of wisdom, they misled the Jews and the Jews chose to be misled. This is just like today with all these churches and church leaders going along with the draconian tyranical laws. They are afraid to lose their building, they are afraid that half their congregation would leave if they told them they needed to take the cross.

The way of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.
 

ZNP

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#31
When I watch the news now of parents complaining about masks and CRT and vaccine mandates they look just like the Jews in this movie. They are powerless to stop what is happening, they are confused thinking no way these leaders would want to harm me. They are every bit as blind to what is coming as the Jews were when the holocaust was coming. The Bible says this. God says he wanted to use the Germans to execute judgement on his people but they went too far. Perhaps putting gold stars, smashing the glass, and kicking them out of Germany would have been fine. Even stealing their homes, bank accounts and assets might have been OK as well. But the wholesale murder of millions of Jews that was too much. During the holocaust it was said that 1/3 of all Jews on Earth were murdered and then in Revelation it says that one third of all people die. That is interesting. We love to think that this crime was perpetrated by the Germans but that is very convenient. Truth is the rest of the world did not welcome Jews trying to flee Germany, many of the world leaders actually funded the Germans and encouraged them to treat the Jews this way, the Catholic church, the Arabs, the list goes on and on. This was not simply a crime in which all the blame should fall on the Germans. Anyway, all these people who are in darkness, not realizing that we are moving to the fulfillment of these prophecies, the reason they are in darkness is they have rejected the gospel, the great light that has shined on the Earth.
 

arthurfleminger

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#32
ZNP blames the Holocaust on the Jews, because they rejected Jesus. This infers that the victims, the Jews, were to blame for their own misfortune. What ZNP fails to recognize was that it was a Christian nation, Germany, and that it was Christians who were murdering 6 million Jews (men/women/children) in the cruelest and vilest ways possible. ZNP, place the blame where it belongs, not on the Jewish victims of the murderous rampage, but on the German Christians who were the murderers. It was Christians doing the murdering.
 

ZNP

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#33
ZNP blames the Holocaust on the Jews, because they rejected Jesus. This infers that the victims, the Jews, were to blame for their own misfortune. What ZNP fails to recognize was that it was a Christian nation, Germany, and that it was Christians who were murdering 6 million Jews (men/women/children) in the cruelest and vilest ways possible. ZNP, place the blame where it belongs, not on the Jewish victims of the murderous rampage, but on the German Christians who were the murderers. It was Christians doing the murdering.
ARTHURFLEMINGER DOESN'T READ WHAT ZNP WROTE AND COMPLETELY MISREPRESENTS WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN.

1. Yes, the Jews had a covenant with God and you can see that the Holocaust was part of that covenant and there are numerous prophecies that point to that.

2. However, the term "blame" indicates the judgement of sin. On the one hand there is a judgement on the Jews for not returning to Israel after 70 years from Babylon and then again prior to the Holocaust.

However, what Germany and the world did was far worse than what God had authorized as a result the world will also suffer God's judgement. They killed 1/3 of Jews on Earth and in Revelation we see that 1/3 of those who are alive on earth will die. As you have done it will be done unto you.

But wait, you might say that only Germany did this. Nope, not even close to the truth.

First -- the rest of the world ignored and hid their eyes from the truth even though reports of atrocities were coming out.

Second -- There were world leaders that pushed the Germans to commit these atrocities because they were afraid of a communist takeover. They wanted Germany to fight Russia and they blamed Jews for communism.

Third -- this ignores the genocides and atrocities committed by Russia, China, Cambodia, Rwanda, the CIA, etc,
 
O

Oblio

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#34
For a Jew, the worst thing one can do is become a Christian. It's taboo! For good reason!
 

ZNP

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#35
For a Jew, the worst thing one can do is become a Christian. It's taboo! For good reason!
The term Jew is very broad, there are many Jews who simply see it as a cultural designation and not a religious one.

There are only a minority of Jews who are what we would call "Bible based" and absolute for God and their covenant.

For a reformed Jew to marry with a Christian, celebrate Christian holidays, attend church and all the rest is not a big deal.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#38
It's a different matter in Israel. You can become a Hindu, a Sikh, New Ager...whatever, but become a Christian and you'll lose everything.
You're seen as a traitor. From what I've learned.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#39
This is beginning to change, though. Thanks to the internet, people are learning that Jesus is their Messiah!
 

cdan2

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Dec 2, 2021
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#40
Skimmed through the posts here, and some things occur to me:

1. It's easy to look back and judge people, saying "Why didn't they leave?" Some good answers were given to that, so I'll ask another question; "Why haven't we revolted?" From the 90's and Ruby Ridge, Vashon Island, Waco and many other murders and mass slaughters by the Clintons; and many since then as well. Why have we not stood up? And now we have the insanity going on all over the US. We have the outright theft of an election by avowed Communists, and still no revolution. Why? I tried for many years, but even the so called "militias" would not act back when just showing up would have been enough. Now I fear it may take much more.

Lesson: we are human and have the same failings as the Jews that stayed did. Many did see what was happening and took action, leaving Germany and Russia. The poor risked death walking overland and sneaking into Israel. The wealthy early on were able to leave, but often becoming poor in the process. My wife's father narrowly escaping Nazi Germany to the UK where he was fortunate to have family who would sponsor him. So many saw, and many left risking all in the process. But many more stayed hoping that at some point it would all blow over. And many of those had no choice. Would you have risked taking a family to freedom if it might mean some or all dieing?

Now, knowing that in oppressive regimes it is likely your family will be killed along with you, and knowing that at Waco USA children were burned or suffocated while armored vehicles blocked their escape, just why haven't you taken a stand against what you see happening today? Maybe some of you in different ways have (other than posting on the internet), but maybe you/we need to do more.

2. It's a movie! So the producers and director did not focus on Jewish spirituality. That does not mean they had no faith. I would posit that, having talked to survivors and studied that time their faith was for the most part very strong. Saying they had no faith because a movie did not say they did is like saying Trump did nothing because CNN said he didn't. Gotta cry 'Bull!' on either statement.

Lesson to learn here is use your head; consider the source. Look into it yourself.

3. Someone touched on the idea of the Jews as a disease, but attributed it all to Communism. Not true. Communists were considered a disease for the same reason as Jews: they were hated and the Nazi's wanted to get rid of them. Not all (or even most) German Jews were Communists. Many eastern European Jews were because they had been raised in a Communist system, and it's all they knew. But many of them hated Communism because they had experienced it. They were primarily killed for being Jews, not Communists.

To understand the idea of people being classed a disease we must understand the root ideology. And it wasn't Nazism, it was (then) modern medicine. Look up the "science" of Eugenics. And this movement was if anything stronger in the US than in Germany. Medical doctors were given the authority to kill infants they thought flawed without consent, covering their crimes with falsified death certificates. "Inferior" or "undesireable" races were sterilized without consent or knowledge, right here in the US of A.

In Germany the first gas chambers were not in concentration camps, but in medical sanitariums. The insane, mentally retarded, and handicapped children were the first victims. And you guessed it, death certificates were falsified and parents notified after the fact. But these "diseases" were being eradicated from German society. Can't have defectives polluting a master race.

From there is was a small step to also classify people who were different as a disease and do what we always try to do with disease: eradicate it. Communists, yes, because they were competitors in the oppressive regime game. Jews and Gypsies because they were different, and we can't trust different people, right? Then finally men and women like Pastor Niemoller and Corrie Ten Boom- good Christians but they stood up against what they saw happening under the Nazi regime. They must be infected, right? Quarintine 'em and maybe kill them when people have forgotten (Pastor Niemoller was killed shortly before liberation).

The point is the first act of wholesale murder by a government is to demonize then classify as something undesirable those it hates, mistrusts, or fears. And support for such classifications often come from sectors we do not expect: medicine, religion (not faith), or those ever so 'tolerant' leftists.

4. Some have said no one wanted them. Mostly true, however some countries did take them on a quota basis. And the Phillipines said they'd take every Jew that could make it there. Long way and a lot of water, but still the offer was made. But by and large, the posters who said that are correct. There was a lot of anti-Semitism in the US at the time, especially in the NE US where most of the political power resided; so to our shame we turned most away.

Point here is we are usually the last refuge for those oppressed. Where will we go when we've lost it here?