We the new chosen people, are Jews no longer chosen people?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#81
You Premills can only be literal with everything because you don't have any HOLY SPIRIT Oil in you.
this is why you are not taken seriously. You insult those who do not agree. Then say a person doesn't have the Holy Spirit. Were to take you seriously in a discussion? I hope Admin sees your rudeness.
 
Jan 14, 2021
1,599
526
113
#82
Didn't Paul boast in the flesh that he was an authentic Jew?

Phil 3:2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of Godb and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— 4though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law,c blameless. 7But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— 10that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

Paul sounds like an authentic Jew to me.;)
With scripture as the inerrant word, I don't think anyone disagrees that Paul (formerly Saul) has Israelite ancestry. The question was never about Biblical Jews detailed in the Bible, the question was how do we know whether or not someone claiming to have Biblical Jewish ancestry genuinely has that ancestry. The youtube video that was posted discusses the interpretation that all modern Jews are descendants of mass influxes of proselytes such as the Ashkenazi Jews which in the interpretation of the presenter are Jewish by faith but not Jewish by genetic lineage, that all genetic Jews either died out or converted to Christianity. This is categorically the same kind of interpretation that claims that there are no modern Christians with Jewish ancestry, and that all Jewish Christians died out or fell away. There are huge fights over this ancestry bit. We are usually asked to make judgements one way or the other.

I agree with CS1's point that it isn't our place to judge, but the reality of that is a true lack of judgement is to neither affirm nor deny anyone's claim of ancestry. It might be the case that modern groups call themselves Jewish and genuinely have Jewish ancestry. It may also be the case that they don't. If we are to refrain from making a judgement, why should any nonChristians that call themselves Jewish be treated any differently from any other nonChristian? What they say could be true, but it may also be false. All of the Biblical lines that talk about Jews and Israel may refer to them but also may not. On what basis should we treat anyone differently that claims to have that ancestry?
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#83
this is why you are not taken seriously. You insult those who do not agree. Then say a person doesn't have the Holy Spirit. Were to take you seriously in a discussion? I hope Admin sees your rudeness.
i'm anti-Calvinist ...so your excuse to not watch it didn't work.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#84
i'm anti-Calvinist ...so your excuse to not watch it didn't work.
I Don't have an excuse your response was more than enough reason not to look at anything you have to say. You're
a one-wagon circle guy. who am I to stop you.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#85
[
Who are these people that you think can call themselves "Jews" today?

Does anyone get what happened in 70 A.D.?
I think a lot of folks don’t see it actually is my experience.

you can actually trace thier cirse from the covenant offer all the way through the prophets to Malachi and see why Jerusalem was destroyed and the people scattered in 67-70 ads siege of Jerusalem

literally we can follow it from the offer through Moses of a blessing and curse and see that they chose the curse and they were destroyed
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#86
Maybe i failed at showing that people today can't be authentic Jews ...or maybe people just don't like what i'm pointing at.

In what world can a Jew claim they are a Jew without Atonement or a High Priest? They would just be like anyone else that doesn't believe in JESUS.

You say, oh well they have Abraham ...well, Abraham was about Faith in The City built without hands ...and as i already said ...that is The Kingdom of The Body of CHRIST ...what more can i say to get through to you?

Authentic Jews are very much The Root ...that isn't what we have walking around today.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#87
That is not what Romans 11:11-24

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [d]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?




says nor did Jesus say it FYI Jesus said " You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know because salvation is from the Jews. "
from your quote there

“And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.”

They have to convert to Christianity and belief in Jesus in order to be saved. Every human can be saved if they repent and believe the gospel the Jews rejected him when he came afterwards the Jews still had to repent and believe the gospel

Paul’s saying they can be saved if they don’t continue in unbelief same thing for Gentiles if they repent and believe the gospel they are going to also be saved

for instance the first Jews Peter preached to

“Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: ….Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:22-25, 30, 32-33, 36-39‬ ‭

there’s only the gospel now that makes a Jew or gentile a child of Abraham. All the original church were Jews who converted to Christianity and then became abrahams heirs like the Gentiles

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Bekng born of a Jewish mother doesn’t mean a thing now hearing and believing the gospel and getting baptized into Christ matters now all Israel and all the world can be redeemed but many reject the redeemer like Israel did
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#88
Maybe i failed at showing that people today can't be authentic Jews ...or maybe people just don't like what i'm pointing at.

In what world can a Jew claim they are a Jew without Atonement or a High Priest? They would just be like anyone else that doesn't believe in JESUS.

You say, oh well they have Abraham ...well, Abraham was about Faith in The City built without hands ...and as i already said ...that is The Kingdom of The Body of CHRIST ...what more can i say to get through to you?

Authentic Jews are very much The Root ...that isn't what we have walking around today.
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

once a Jew or gentile rejects Christ there’s no way home no mediation between God and man of we reject the New Testament

“This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭8:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬


they already had Moses law it was offensive when Jesus came preaching the gospel having authority
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
#89
The Church Is Israel Now
By Charles D. Provan
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Section 1
Old Testament Titles and Attributes of Israel Which Are,
In the New Testament, Referred to the Christian Church
The Beloved of God
A. Israel Is Beloved of God
Exodus 15:13/Dueteronomy 33:3/Ezra 3:11
B. Disobedient Israel Is Not Beloved of God
Leviticus 26:28, 30/Jerimiah 12:8/Jerimiah 16:5/Hosea 9:15/Amos 9:7/Mathhew
3:7/Phillipians 3:2/1 Thessalonians 2:14-16/Titus 1:10
C. The Christians Are Beloved of God
Romans 9:25/Ephesians 5:1/Colossians 3:12/1 John 3:1
The Children of God
A. Israelites Are the Children of God
Exodus 4:22/Deuteronomy 14:1/Isaiah 1:2, 4/Isaish 63:8/ Jeremiah 31:9/Hosea 11:1
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Children of God
Deuteronomy 32:5/John 8:39, 42, 44
C. The Christians Are the Children of God
John 1:12/John 11:52/Romans 8:14, 16/2 Corinthians 6:18/Galatians 3:26/Galatians
4:5, 6, 7/Philipians 2:15/1 John 3:1
The Field of God
A. Israel Is the Field of God
Jeremiah 12:10
B. The Christians Are the Field of God
1 Corinthians 3:9
The Flock of God and of the Messiah
A. Israel Is the Flock of God and of the Messiah
Psalms 78:52/Psalms 80:1/Isaiah 40:11/Jeremiah 23:1, 2, 3/Jeremiah 31:10/ Ezekiel
34:12, 15, 16/ Micah 5:4/ Zechariah 10:3
B. The Christians Are the Flock of God and of the Messiah
John 10:14, 16/Hebrews 13:20/1 Peter 2:25/ 1 Peter 5:2, 3
The House of God
A. Israel Is the House of God
Numbers 12:7
B. The Christians Are the House of God
1 Timothy 3:15/Hebrews 3:2, 5, 6/Hebrews 10:21/1 Peter 4:17
The Kingdom of God
A. Israel Is the Kingdom of God
Exodus 19:6/1 Chronicles 17:14/ 1 Chronicles 28:5
B. Disobedient Israel Is Not the Kingdom of God
Matthew 8:11, 12/Matthew 21:43
C. The Christians Are the Kingdom of God
Romans 14:17/1 Corinthians 4:20/Colossians 4:11/Revelation 1:6
The People of God
A. Israelites Are the People of God
Exodus 6:7/Deuteronomy 27:9/2 Samuel 7:23/Jeremiah 11:4
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the People of God
Hosea 1:9/Jeremiah 5:10
C. The Christians Are the People of God
Romans 9:25/2 Corinthians 6:16/Ephesians 4:12/ Ephesians 5:3/2 Thessalonians 1:10/
Titus 2:14
The Priests of God
A. The Israelites Are the Priests of God
Exodus 19:6
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Priests of God
1 Samuel 2:28, 30/Lamantations 4:13,16/Ezekiel 44:10, 13/Hosea 4:6/Malachi 2:2, 4,
8, 9
C. The Christians Are the Priests of God
1 Peter 2:5, 9/Revelation 1:6/Revelation 5:10
The Vineyard of God
A. Israel Is the Vineyard of God
Isaiah 5:3, 4, 5, 7/ Jeremiah 12:10
B. The Christians Are the Vineyard of God
Luke 20:16
The Wife (or Bride) of God
A. Israel Is the Wife (or Bride) of God
Isaiah 54:5, 6/Jeremiah 12:10
B. Disobedient Israel is Not the Wife (or Bride) of God
Jeremiah 3:8/Hosea 2:2
C. The Christians Are the Wife (or Bride) God
2 Corinthians 11:2/Ephesians 5:31, 2
The Children of Abraham
A. The Israelites Are the Children of Abraham
2 Chronicles 20:7/Psalms 105:6/Isaiah 41:8
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Children of Abraham
John 8:39/Romans 9:6, 7/Galations 4:25, 30
C. The Christians Are the Children of Abraham
Romans 4:11, 16/Galatians 3:7, 29/Galatians 4:23, 28, 31

The Chosen People
A. The Israelites Are the Chosen People
Deuteronomy 7:7/Deuteronomy 10:15/ Deuteronomy 14:2/Isaiah 43:20, 21
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Chosen People
Deuteronomy 31:17/ 2 Kings 17:20/ 2 Chronicles 25:7/Psalms 78:59/Jeremiah
6:30/Jeremiah 7:29/ Jeremiah 14:10
C. The Christians Are the Chosen People
Colossians 3:12/1 Peter 2:9
The Circumcised
A. The Israelites Are the Circumcised
Genesis 17:10, 13/ Judges 15:18
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Circumcised
Jeremiah 9:25/Romans 2:25, 28/Philippians 3:2
C. The Christians Are the Circumcised
Romans 2:29/Philippians 3:3/Colossians 2:11
Israel
A. Israel Is Israel
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not Israelites
Numbers 15:30, 31/Deuteromy 18:19/Acts 3:23/Romans 9:6
C. The Christians Are Israel
John 11:50, 51, 52/1 Corinthians 10:1/Galatians 6:15, 16/Ephesians 2:12, 19
Jerusalem
A. Jerusalem Is the City and Mother of Israel
Psalms 149:2/Isaiah 12:6/Isaiah 49:18, 20, 22/Isaiah 51:18/Lamentations 4:2
B. Jerusalem Is The City and Mother of Christian
Galatians 4:26/Hebrews 12:22
The Jews
A. Israelites Are Jews
Ezra 5:1/Jeremiah 34:8, 9/ Zechariah 8:22, 23
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not Jews
Romans 2:28/Revalation 2:9/Revalation 3:9
C. Christians Are Jews
Romans 2:29
The New Covenant
A. The New Covenant Is With Israel
Jeremiah 31:31, 33
B. The New Covenant Is with the Christians
Luke 22:20/1 Corinthians 11:25/2 Corinthians 3:6/Hebrews 8:6, 8, 10
An Olive Tree
A. Israel Is An Olive Tree
Jeremiah 11:16/ Hosea 14:6
B. The Christians Are An Olive Tree
Romans 11:24
Section 2
Old Testament Verses Referring to Israel Which Are Quoted
in the New Testament As Referring to the Christians
Quote # 1: Leviticus 26:11, 12/Ezra 37:27/2 Corinthians 6:16
Quote # 2: Deuteronomy 30:12-14/Romans 10:6-8
Quote # 3: Deuteronomy 31:6/Hebrews 13:5
Quote # 4: Deuteronomy 32:36/Psalms 135:14/Hebrews 10:30
Quote # 5: Psalms 22:22/Hebrews 2:12
Quote # 6: Psalms 44:22/Romans 8:36
Quote # 7: Psalms 95:7-11/Hebrews 3:7-11
Quote # 8: Psalms 130:8/ Titus 2:14
Quote # 9: Isaiah 28:16/Romans 10:11/Ephesisans 2:20/ 1 Peter 2:6
Quote # 10: Isaiah 49:8/2 Corinthians 6:2
Quote # 11: Isaiah 52:7/Romans 10:15
Quote # 12: Isaiah 54:1/Galatians 4:27
Quote # 13: Jeremiah 31:31-34/Hebrews 8:8-12
Quote # 14: Hosea 1:10 & 2:23/Romans 9:25-26/1 Peter 2:10
Quote # 15: Hosea 13:14/1 Corinthians 15:55
Quote # 16: Joel 2:32/Romans 10:13
Section 3
Old Testament Ethical Commands to Israel Which Are Quoted
In the New Testament As Applying to the Church
Quote # 1: Exodus 16:18/2 Corinthians 8:15
Quote # 2: Leviticus 11:45 & 19:2/1 Peter 1:16
Quote # 3: Deuteronomy 5:16/Ephesians 6:2-3
Quote # 4: Deuteronomy 17:7, 19:19, 22:24 & 24:7/1 Corinthians 5:13
Quote # 5: Deuteronomy 19:15/2 Corinthians 13:1/1 Timothy 5:19
Quote # 6: Isaiah 35:3/Hebrews 12:12
Quote # 7: Isaiah 48:20 & 52:11/2 Corinthians 6:17
https://www.revealinglifetruth.org/uploads/6/9/0/5/69052901/the_church_is_israel_now.pdf
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#90
The Church Is Israel Now
By Charles D. Provan
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Section 1
Old Testament Titles and Attributes of Israel Which Are,
In the New Testament, Referred to the Christian Church
The Beloved of God
A. Israel Is Beloved of God
Exodus 15:13/Dueteronomy 33:3/Ezra 3:11
B. Disobedient Israel Is Not Beloved of God
Leviticus 26:28, 30/Jerimiah 12:8/Jerimiah 16:5/Hosea 9:15/Amos 9:7/Mathhew
3:7/Phillipians 3:2/1 Thessalonians 2:14-16/Titus 1:10
C. The Christians Are Beloved of God
Romans 9:25/Ephesians 5:1/Colossians 3:12/1 John 3:1
The Children of God
A. Israelites Are the Children of God
Exodus 4:22/Deuteronomy 14:1/Isaiah 1:2, 4/Isaish 63:8/ Jeremiah 31:9/Hosea 11:1
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Children of God
Deuteronomy 32:5/John 8:39, 42, 44
C. The Christians Are the Children of God
John 1:12/John 11:52/Romans 8:14, 16/2 Corinthians 6:18/Galatians 3:26/Galatians
4:5, 6, 7/Philipians 2:15/1 John 3:1
The Field of God
A. Israel Is the Field of God
Jeremiah 12:10
B. The Christians Are the Field of God
1 Corinthians 3:9
The Flock of God and of the Messiah
A. Israel Is the Flock of God and of the Messiah
Psalms 78:52/Psalms 80:1/Isaiah 40:11/Jeremiah 23:1, 2, 3/Jeremiah 31:10/ Ezekiel
34:12, 15, 16/ Micah 5:4/ Zechariah 10:3
B. The Christians Are the Flock of God and of the Messiah
John 10:14, 16/Hebrews 13:20/1 Peter 2:25/ 1 Peter 5:2, 3
The House of God
A. Israel Is the House of God
Numbers 12:7
B. The Christians Are the House of God
1 Timothy 3:15/Hebrews 3:2, 5, 6/Hebrews 10:21/1 Peter 4:17
The Kingdom of God
A. Israel Is the Kingdom of God
Exodus 19:6/1 Chronicles 17:14/ 1 Chronicles 28:5
B. Disobedient Israel Is Not the Kingdom of God
Matthew 8:11, 12/Matthew 21:43
C. The Christians Are the Kingdom of God
Romans 14:17/1 Corinthians 4:20/Colossians 4:11/Revelation 1:6
The People of God
A. Israelites Are the People of God
Exodus 6:7/Deuteronomy 27:9/2 Samuel 7:23/Jeremiah 11:4
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the People of God
Hosea 1:9/Jeremiah 5:10
C. The Christians Are the People of God
Romans 9:25/2 Corinthians 6:16/Ephesians 4:12/ Ephesians 5:3/2 Thessalonians 1:10/
Titus 2:14
The Priests of God
A. The Israelites Are the Priests of God
Exodus 19:6
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Priests of God
1 Samuel 2:28, 30/Lamantations 4:13,16/Ezekiel 44:10, 13/Hosea 4:6/Malachi 2:2, 4,
8, 9
C. The Christians Are the Priests of God
1 Peter 2:5, 9/Revelation 1:6/Revelation 5:10
The Vineyard of God
A. Israel Is the Vineyard of God
Isaiah 5:3, 4, 5, 7/ Jeremiah 12:10
B. The Christians Are the Vineyard of God
Luke 20:16
The Wife (or Bride) of God
A. Israel Is the Wife (or Bride) of God
Isaiah 54:5, 6/Jeremiah 12:10
B. Disobedient Israel is Not the Wife (or Bride) of God
Jeremiah 3:8/Hosea 2:2
C. The Christians Are the Wife (or Bride) God
2 Corinthians 11:2/Ephesians 5:31, 2
The Children of Abraham
A. The Israelites Are the Children of Abraham
2 Chronicles 20:7/Psalms 105:6/Isaiah 41:8
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Children of Abraham
John 8:39/Romans 9:6, 7/Galations 4:25, 30
C. The Christians Are the Children of Abraham
Romans 4:11, 16/Galatians 3:7, 29/Galatians 4:23, 28, 31

The Chosen People
A. The Israelites Are the Chosen People
Deuteronomy 7:7/Deuteronomy 10:15/ Deuteronomy 14:2/Isaiah 43:20, 21
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Chosen People
Deuteronomy 31:17/ 2 Kings 17:20/ 2 Chronicles 25:7/Psalms 78:59/Jeremiah
6:30/Jeremiah 7:29/ Jeremiah 14:10
C. The Christians Are the Chosen People
Colossians 3:12/1 Peter 2:9
The Circumcised
A. The Israelites Are the Circumcised
Genesis 17:10, 13/ Judges 15:18
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Circumcised
Jeremiah 9:25/Romans 2:25, 28/Philippians 3:2
C. The Christians Are the Circumcised
Romans 2:29/Philippians 3:3/Colossians 2:11
Israel
A. Israel Is Israel
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not Israelites
Numbers 15:30, 31/Deuteromy 18:19/Acts 3:23/Romans 9:6
C. The Christians Are Israel
John 11:50, 51, 52/1 Corinthians 10:1/Galatians 6:15, 16/Ephesians 2:12, 19
Jerusalem
A. Jerusalem Is the City and Mother of Israel
Psalms 149:2/Isaiah 12:6/Isaiah 49:18, 20, 22/Isaiah 51:18/Lamentations 4:2
B. Jerusalem Is The City and Mother of Christian
Galatians 4:26/Hebrews 12:22
The Jews
A. Israelites Are Jews
Ezra 5:1/Jeremiah 34:8, 9/ Zechariah 8:22, 23
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not Jews
Romans 2:28/Revalation 2:9/Revalation 3:9
C. Christians Are Jews
Romans 2:29
The New Covenant
A. The New Covenant Is With Israel
Jeremiah 31:31, 33
B. The New Covenant Is with the Christians
Luke 22:20/1 Corinthians 11:25/2 Corinthians 3:6/Hebrews 8:6, 8, 10
An Olive Tree
A. Israel Is An Olive Tree
Jeremiah 11:16/ Hosea 14:6
B. The Christians Are An Olive Tree
Romans 11:24
Section 2
Old Testament Verses Referring to Israel Which Are Quoted
in the New Testament As Referring to the Christians
Quote # 1: Leviticus 26:11, 12/Ezra 37:27/2 Corinthians 6:16
Quote # 2: Deuteronomy 30:12-14/Romans 10:6-8
Quote # 3: Deuteronomy 31:6/Hebrews 13:5
Quote # 4: Deuteronomy 32:36/Psalms 135:14/Hebrews 10:30
Quote # 5: Psalms 22:22/Hebrews 2:12
Quote # 6: Psalms 44:22/Romans 8:36
Quote # 7: Psalms 95:7-11/Hebrews 3:7-11
Quote # 8: Psalms 130:8/ Titus 2:14
Quote # 9: Isaiah 28:16/Romans 10:11/Ephesisans 2:20/ 1 Peter 2:6
Quote # 10: Isaiah 49:8/2 Corinthians 6:2
Quote # 11: Isaiah 52:7/Romans 10:15
Quote # 12: Isaiah 54:1/Galatians 4:27
Quote # 13: Jeremiah 31:31-34/Hebrews 8:8-12
Quote # 14: Hosea 1:10 & 2:23/Romans 9:25-26/1 Peter 2:10
Quote # 15: Hosea 13:14/1 Corinthians 15:55
Quote # 16: Joel 2:32/Romans 10:13
Section 3
Old Testament Ethical Commands to Israel Which Are Quoted
In the New Testament As Applying to the Church
Quote # 1: Exodus 16:18/2 Corinthians 8:15
Quote # 2: Leviticus 11:45 & 19:2/1 Peter 1:16
Quote # 3: Deuteronomy 5:16/Ephesians 6:2-3
Quote # 4: Deuteronomy 17:7, 19:19, 22:24 & 24:7/1 Corinthians 5:13
Quote # 5: Deuteronomy 19:15/2 Corinthians 13:1/1 Timothy 5:19
Quote # 6: Isaiah 35:3/Hebrews 12:12
Quote # 7: Isaiah 48:20 & 52:11/2 Corinthians 6:17
https://www.revealinglifetruth.org/uploads/6/9/0/5/69052901/the_church_is_israel_now.pdf
Amen there are two there is a worldly israel which we all know of in the Middle East they are cursed forever with the whole world and will be destroyed upon Christs return with the earth and all in it

And then There’s the heavenly elect israel born of the gospel in fulfillment of all the promises of the prophets to send out Gods word of salvstion from Jerusalem into all nations in order to birth true Israelites by the faith of the gospel from all nations

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in the Old Testament there is a law a list of rules and regulations for israel to observe when they entered the promised land and then hidden within the law and prophets there are several promises of a future hope to come.

just as ishmael was born of the flesh and not by Gods promise , later Isaac was promosed and then was born and at that point God cast out ishmael so he couldn’t partake in abrahams inheritance through Isaac the promise

the Promises to come in the Old Testament is what we want to see because they are a loud and clear witness of Jesus Christ and his purposes on the gospel to save believers of all kindreds tongues and peoples all nations and languages who believe the gospel

if we look for the things we’re supposed to “ behold “ in the ot a very powerful witness of the gospel emerges giving clarity and understanding of those thkngs we don’t quite understand at first

“For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.



I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment. And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David;

he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it.

And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭34:11-14, 16, 23-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

those types of things are why Jesus said what he said when he came

“I came to save that which is lost , I am The good shepherd “ I have other sheep not of this fold one shepherd one fold shall be “ ect

he was fulfilling those promises God had foretold that are hidden in the ot concerning Jesus. If we can distinguish between the list of rules and regulations of Moses law and instead look at the things he was foretelling would later come it is powerful
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#91
JESUS Fulfilled Mosaic Law, aka JESUS Ended Mosaic Law because Everything is Through Him. You don't get to say you are a Jew anymore without JESUS.

Romans 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#93
JESUS Fulfilled Mosaic Law, aka JESUS Ended Mosaic Law because Everything is Through Him. You don't get to say you are a Jew anymore without JESUS.

Romans 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
that is the most quoted prophecy in the New Testament the next verse shows they were appointed to fall

“Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the Lord: This gate of the Lord, into which the righteous shall enter. I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation.

The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner. This is the Lord's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.

Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the Lord: we have blessed you out of the house of the Lord. O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭118:19-23, 26, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It appears several times but then other prophecy connects

“Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand;

when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord God of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth. Give ye ear, and hear my voice; hearken, and hear my speech.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭28:14-18, 22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.

But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours. And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard. What shall therefore the Lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.

And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner: This was the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭12:6-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s a whole lot to research regarding the stone laid in Zion Jesus Christ who would be rejected by Israel and would become the ruler over them all who rejected him and over all of heaven and earth even things like this tie dorectly in and span through the Bible concerning the rock of salvstion

“Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH. For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭3:8-9‬ ‭

Jesus death of course fulfilled the removal of iniquity in one moment so later we see revelation of that stone with seven eyes that removed iniquity and we see what the seven eyes are

“And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s just all about Jesus the precious cornerstone that was rejected by the builders ( israel and their system )
 

cdan2

Active member
Dec 2, 2021
141
39
28
#94
[


I think a lot of folks don’t see it actually is my experience.

you can actually trace thier cirse from the covenant offer all the way through the prophets to Malachi and see why Jerusalem was destroyed and the people scattered in 67-70 ads siege of Jerusalem

literally we can follow it from the offer through Moses of a blessing and curse and see that they chose the curse and they were destroyed
Yes, but those same admonitions; the same blessings and curses apply to any and all of those claiming the name(s) of the God of Israel. The church today is largely apostate. Growing up the son of a Southern Baptist minister in the 50' and 60's even back then I heard many a conversation by other pastors and evangelists about the state of the church overall, especially evangelical churches and the direction they were headed. Several of those I know either left their respective associations eventually, or just plain left the ministry. But the prognoses these men gave was not good. Looking back and looking now I would say they were prescient, if not downright prophetic!

That "a lot of folks don't see IT" is the problem! IT being the truth. Pastors are fed lies and trained in heresies in their seminaries and they pass these on to their flocks. They are trained more in eisegesis than exegesis. Is it any wonder so many churches are in crises? The flash performances may pull them away from true Bible teaching churches, but it won't hold them long:

Matthew 23:15 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves." Modern day "scribes and Pharisees" do not have to be genetically Jewish. Remember, all said of them applies to you/us/and esp. pastors as well.

Yes, you can trace "IT" all through the Bible. But "IT" is not a church! Look this up yourself. Learn it. understand it:

Strong's 1577 ekklйsia: an assembly, a (religious) congregation

There is no "cirse, circe," or "church" in God's eyes. There is His assembly. The "cirse" is a pagan term meaning circle (as in a witches cirse) applied to believers by the church fathers. In the entire Bible God's people never gathered in a "church." Get a good interlinear and see for yourself. I have one, and I use it. I'd recommend it as an investment in understanding the truth. I am an advocate of your not just taking my word, but looking up things for yourself.
 

cdan2

Active member
Dec 2, 2021
141
39
28
#95
in the Old Testament there is a law a list of rules and regulations for israel to observe when they entered the promised land and then hidden within the law and prophets there are several promises of a future hope to come.
Oh, and where might that be?
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#96
Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
i'm in love with this one. Zion is The Kingdom ...the stone that crushed the beast statue in Daniel ...that grew to fill the whole earth. Premillennialism is going to end soon and they are going to face The Kingdom being now.

Daniel 2:35
Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#97
Yes, but those same admonitions; the same blessings and curses apply to any and all of those claiming the name(s) of the God of Israel. The church today is largely apostate. Growing up the son of a Southern Baptist minister in the 50' and 60's even back then I heard many a conversation by other pastors and evangelists about the state of the church overall, especially evangelical churches and the direction they were headed. Several of those I know either left their respective associations eventually, or just plain left the ministry. But the prognoses these men gave was not good. Looking back and looking now I would say they were prescient, if not downright prophetic!

That "a lot of folks don't see IT" is the problem! IT being the truth. Pastors are fed lies and trained in heresies in their seminaries and they pass these on to their flocks. They are trained more in eisegesis than exegesis. Is it any wonder so many churches are in crises? The flash performances may pull them away from true Bible teaching churches, but it won't hold them long:

Matthew 23:15 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves." Modern day "scribes and Pharisees" do not have to be genetically Jewish. Remember, all said of them applies to you/us/and esp. pastors as well.

Yes, you can trace "IT" all through the Bible. But "IT" is not a church! Look this up yourself. Learn it. understand it:

Strong's 1577 ekklйsia: an assembly, a (religious) congregation

There is no "cirse, circe," or "church" in God's eyes. There is His assembly. The "cirse" is a pagan term meaning circle (as in a witches cirse) applied to believers by the church fathers. In the entire Bible God's people never gathered in a "church." Get a good interlinear and see for yourself. I have one, and I use it. I'd recommend it as an investment in understanding the truth. I am an advocate of your not just taking my word, but looking up things for yourself.
yeah I do look things up study every day.

here’s a sample of what I’m saying which i don’t really think you understood what I was saying to brother joe keep in mind this is a small sample of what I meant our being able to trace Israel’s curse from the covenant to Jesus

“Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that the conditions written in the covenant ot could be a blessing if they kept the law but it would be a curse if they broke it

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But ye are they that forsake the Lord, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.

Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed: Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit. And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he repeatedly called them to retrain tonthe law and keep It and promised restoration if they did same condition as when the covenant was given but they would repent and return instead they served other gods just as he earned then not to do

eventually you come to the messiah and the last Hope for israel to save Thy ier covenant blessing but instead of receiving Jesus they rejected and crucified him fulfilling the many terrible perpetual curses written in the law upon them for transgression thier last Hope was Jesus

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭4:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What I was saying is if someone wants to spend the time you can trace the curse in the law all the way to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. You can actually see that it’s written in the law and prophets abundantly and clearly

it’s just a matter of acknowledging that what the written in the law is what defines Israel’s covenant through moses it could be a blessing to them or a curse based on their own works according to it they chose the curse through rebellion and so when they broke the covenant he promised a new one not according to the old broken one that brought the curse and destruction upon Israel and all the earth to come

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thoer ckvenwnt was broken by them and it was fulfilled as a curse just exactly like God told them it would be in the law itself

I would encourage you to read the four books of the law and look for the curses of they broke the covenant you will find about 100 different terrible and perpetual curses



“The virgin of Israel is fallen; she shall no more rise: she is forsaken upon her land; there is none to raise her up.”
‭‭Amos‬ ‭5:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he kept offering to restore them but they wouldn’t repent. So they chose the curse
To be clear all I’m saying is the law was either a blessing or curse and they chose the curse.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#98
i'm in love with this one. Zion is The Kingdom ...the stone that crushed the beast statue in Daniel ...that grew to fill the whole earth. Premillennialism is going to end soon and they are going to face The Kingdom being now.

Daniel 2:35
Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
amen it’s a great thorough study and all relates to Christ and the kingdom overcoming all and being established in zion the true Jerusalem in heaven

“But ye are come unto mount Zion and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-25, 28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

whenever you see Zion in scripture well after israel chases Gods glory away through idolatry anyways zion is a reference to the heavenly kingdom
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#99
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-25, 28‬ ‭KJV‬‬
It's all about being a Child of GOD ...Citizens of The Kingdom:

John 15:4-6
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

John 1:12-13
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
It's all about being a Child of GOD ...Citizens of The Kingdom:

John 15:4-6
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.


John 1:12-13
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
yep it’s all about Jesus and being born of him through the gospel of the kingdom Everything else comes with knowing Jesus it’s what makes us Gods children and what makes us citizens of his kingdom and what makes us preists and kings we are being adopted into his family

“For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus spirit in us makes us children

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christ is the word of God and all
Of Gods eternal creation is found in him we are to be consumed by the son and conformed to his image