The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

kleronomos · Feb 7, 2022

DOUBLE POST

kleronomos · Feb 7, 2022

SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

FreeGrace2 · Feb 7, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
Doesn't help. You added "over time" in your 'reding' of v.23. But that's not what the verse says.

It says plainly that "when He comes" THEN "those who belong to Him".

So, ALL believers from all time (Adam on) will be resurrrected "when He comes".

I asked in my previous response, how many times do you think Jesus "comes"?

Marilyn said:

How do you know there will be "those who belong to Him" during the Millennium? iow, where does the Bible indicate that there will be people coming to faith during the Millennium?

[QUORTE]Jesus comes to the air, then later He comes to the earth. That makes twice.[/QUOTE]
Nope. He comes once more. His First Advent was as a baby, to become the Suffering Servant. His Second Advent is when He comes back as King of kings and Lord of lords.

Fact: many OT leaders thought there were 2 Messiahs, from their reading of Scripture. A "lesser" and a "greater" Messiah. The lesser was the suffering servant who served the greater Messiah, the King of the Jews. Obviously they were sadly mistaken. What they were reading was about Jesus' TWO Advents.

So, there are only 2 "comings" of the Lord. One has already occurred and there will be ONE more, at the Second Advent.

Here's a verse that supports this:

Acts 3:21 -
New International Version
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

The previous edition of the NIV says "He must remain in heaven until the time comes..."

Here are some more translations:

New Living Translation
For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.
Berean Study Bible
Heaven must take Him in until the time comes for the restoration of all things, which God announced long ago through His holy prophets.
Amplified Bible
whom heaven must keep until the time for the [complete] restoration of all things about which God promised through the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
Contemporary English Version
But Jesus must stay in heaven until God makes all things new, just as his holy prophets promised long ago
Good News Translation
He must remain in heaven until the time comes for all things to be made new, as God announced through his holy prophets of long ago.
International Standard Version
He must remain in heaven until the time of universal restitution, which God announced long ago through the voice of his holy prophets.

Yes, I know many of these are paraphrased translations. However, in my lexicon, the Greek word for "receive" means "to retain, contain", so "remain" is a legitimate translation.

So, heaven will retain and contain Jesus "until the time comes for God to restore all things".

This verse prevents any notion of a pretrib trip to "the clouds" to gather believers, give them glorified bodies and take them all back to heaven.

Just saying.

kleronomos · Feb 7, 2022

ABSOLUTELY MISSED THE QUESTIONS, SO I'LL RE POST

then shall that Wicked be revealed,

THE WICKED IS REVEALED, THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION IS REVEALED

BY THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE COMING OF THE LORD.

THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE COMING OF THE LORD REVEALS WHO IS CLAIMING TO BE GOD AND THAT IS THE SON OF PERDITION. THE WHOLE WORLD IS BEING DECEIVED, ONCE EXPOSED BY THE BRIGHTNESS THE DECEPTION ENDS. ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD BECOME CHRISTS THE SECOND SATAN IS REVEALED AS BEING A FAKE, A LIAR.

Picture yourself waking up and finding yourself in a pitch black room. There is someone there telling you what the room looks like. As he describes all the details of the room you can in your mind imagine exactly what it will look like when the light comes on. The light comes on and what is revealed is the exact opposite of what you were told. It's dreadful.

Could anyone ever make you believe it again? Are there any words that could be said to make you believe it was a beautiful room? NO. Once the light has shown you the truth, no lie can be told.

The BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST coming to the earth can not be hid. Remember Moses, he had to wear a veil over his face because he shined so bright the people couldn't look at him. That was from being in THE PRESENCE of the Lord on the Mount. What if GOD would have not 'HID' himself? What if He would have been up in the sky? That is where the LORD will be. THESE ARE SOME of the facts THE WORDS DON'T DEAL WITH but for TRUTH to be told the words have to fit the facts.

Once that light shines on this earth there is NO TURNING BACK to make anyone ever believe anything else. Satan may have at one time been 'the morning star' but HE WAS CAST DOWN and there is no more light in him. These are the obstacles that must be over come for THE THEORY. You are going to have to overcome SUPERNATURAL activities with earthly words. It can't be done.

Satan will act wickedly. Satan will deceive. Satan will claim to be God. Satan will succeed UNTIL THE LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS.

THE LIGHT EXPOSES EVERYTHING. EVERY TRUTH AND EVERY LIE IS EXPOSED BY THE LIGHT. CHRIST IS THAT LIGHT. WHEN THAT LIGHT IS SEEN EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW.

How does pre trib overcome that? It can try and in earthly minds it will succeed. BUT in the spiritual realm it can not.

Christ CAN NOT come to the earth and the world not see or know. PERIOD. THAT is the SUPERNATURAL REALITY OF THE SITUATION.

You MUST stop being about the 'EARTHLY WORDS' and BE ABOUT THE REALITY of the SPIRITUAL WORLD.

So you are probably going to say it is before Satan and so nothing will be exposed. BUT you still can't change the BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST. YOU CAN'T UNDO THE LIGHT. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE LIGHT NOT SHINE. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE WORLD FORGET THE LIGHT. THE LIGHT CAN'T COME TO THE WORLD AND NOT EXPOSE ALL THE 'MYSTERY OF INIQUITY' THAT IS ALREADY WORKING.

Yes, you can CONVINCE others that is what the 'words' say, but those words will never tell the TRUTH of the situation.

AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING

When that happens
THE WICKED IS REVEALED, BROUGHT OUT OF HIDING, SHOWN TO BE WHO HE REALLY IS WHEN LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS. SATAN CAN REMAIN HIDDEN IN THE DARKNESS BUT ONCE THE LIGHT SHINES THERE IS NO DARKNESS LEFT TO HIDE IN. HE CAN ONLY BE WHO HE IS and he is deception. And those who spread his lies are doing his work.

THIS VERSE IS SPEAKING TO 'THE ENDING' OF SATANS '7' YEARS RULE (not really 7 years though)
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
THE DAY OF CHRIST IS THE DAY OF THE LORD, CHRIST IS THE LORD. That day DIDN'T HAPPEN THEN, IT WAS AND STILL IS yet FUTURE.

THE VERY LAST MOMENT OF SATANS TRIB (the world having been deceived) AND BEFORE GODS WRATH
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

WHAT SATAN IS DOING RIGHT BEFORE CHRIST SHOWS UP, (TWO WITNESSES ABOUT TO RISE UP, BEEN DEAD 3 1/2 DAYS)
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

NOW WE KNOW WHAT IS HOLDING UP THE DAY OF THE LORD AND OUR GATHERING TO HIM - WAR IN HEAVEN -SATAN TRIB
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

PEOPLE ALREADY BEING LED ASTRAY - will be up until he is kicked out of heaven by Michael
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Again, Paul is going to say the exact same thing but add some details
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING

again PAUL MAKING SURE THE ORDER IS KNOWN. NOT TILL AFTER SATAN WILL ANYONE EVER SEE CHRIST
9 whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

Absolutely said:

" ....Go buy from them that sell"

Are you trying to make that say something it doesn't?.

What about this one?
Rev 3
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to BUY of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Buy, has NOTHING to do with money in rev 3 or mat 25.

Nothing whatsoever to do with money in either instance.

Why do you need it reframed into something it is not?

Once you start omitting context and reframing the bible into your doctrine, you are wide open to deception.

^^^Here is one you could not answer mr kleronomos

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

ABSOLUTELY MISSED THE QUESTIONS, SO I'LL RE POST

then shall that Wicked be revealed,

THE WICKED IS REVEALED, THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION IS REVEALED

BY THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE COMING OF THE LORD.

THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE COMING OF THE LORD REVEALS WHO IS CLAIMING TO BE GOD AND THAT IS THE SON OF PERDITION. THE WHOLE WORLD IS BEING DECEIVED, ONCE EXPOSED BY THE BRIGHTNESS THE DECEPTION ENDS. ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD BECOME CHRISTS THE SECOND SATAN IS REVEALED AS BEING A FAKE, A LIAR.

Picture yourself waking up and finding yourself in a pitch black room. There is someone there telling you what the room looks like. As he describes all the details of the room you can in your mind imagine exactly what it will look like when the light comes on. The light comes on and what is revealed is the exact opposite of what you were told. It's dreadful.

Could anyone ever make you believe it again? Are there any words that could be said to make you believe it was a beautiful room? NO. Once the light has shown you the truth, no lie can be told.

The BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST coming to the earth can not be hid. Remember Moses, he had to wear a veil over his face because he shined so bright the people couldn't look at him. That was from being in THE PRESENCE of the Lord on the Mount. What if GOD would have not 'HID' himself? What if He would have been up in the sky? That is where the LORD will be. THESE ARE SOME of the facts THE WORDS DON'T DEAL WITH but for TRUTH to be told the words have to fit the facts.

Once that light shines on this earth there is NO TURNING BACK to make anyone ever believe anything else. Satan may have at one time been 'the morning star' but HE WAS CAST DOWN and there is no more light in him. These are the obstacles that must be over come for THE THEORY. You are going to have to overcome SUPERNATURAL activities with earthly words. It can't be done.

Satan will act wickedly. Satan will deceive. Satan will claim to be God. Satan will succeed UNTIL THE LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS.

THE LIGHT EXPOSES EVERYTHING. EVERY TRUTH AND EVERY LIE IS EXPOSED BY THE LIGHT. CHRIST IS THAT LIGHT. WHEN THAT LIGHT IS SEEN EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW.

How does pre trib overcome that? It can try and in earthly minds it will succeed. BUT in the spiritual realm it can not.

Christ CAN NOT come to the earth and the world not see or know. PERIOD. THAT is the SUPERNATURAL REALITY OF THE SITUATION.

You MUST stop being about the 'EARTHLY WORDS' and BE ABOUT THE REALITY of the SPIRITUAL WORLD.

So you are probably going to say it is before Satan and so nothing will be exposed. BUT you still can't change the BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST. YOU CAN'T UNDO THE LIGHT. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE LIGHT NOT SHINE. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE WORLD FORGET THE LIGHT. THE LIGHT CAN'T COME TO THE WORLD AND NOT EXPOSE ALL THE 'MYSTERY OF INIQUITY' THAT IS ALREADY WORKING.

Yes, you can CONVINCE others that is what the 'words' say, but those words will never tell the TRUTH of the situation.

AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING

When that happens
THE WICKED IS REVEALED, BROUGHT OUT OF HIDING, SHOWN TO BE WHO HE REALLY IS WHEN LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS. SATAN CAN REMAIN HIDDEN IN THE DARKNESS BUT ONCE THE LIGHT SHINES THERE IS NO DARKNESS LEFT TO HIDE IN. HE CAN ONLY BE WHO HE IS and he is deception. And those who spread his lies are doing his work.

THIS VERSE IS SPEAKING TO 'THE ENDING' OF SATANS '7' YEARS RULE (not really 7 years though)
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
THE DAY OF CHRIST IS THE DAY OF THE LORD, CHRIST IS THE LORD. That day DIDN'T HAPPEN THEN, IT WAS AND STILL IS yet FUTURE.

THE VERY LAST MOMENT OF SATANS TRIB (the world having been deceived) AND BEFORE GODS WRATH
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

WHAT SATAN IS DOING RIGHT BEFORE CHRIST SHOWS UP, (TWO WITNESSES ABOUT TO RISE UP, BEEN DEAD 3 1/2 DAYS)
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

NOW WE KNOW WHAT IS HOLDING UP THE DAY OF THE LORD AND OUR GATHERING TO HIM - WAR IN HEAVEN -SATAN TRIB
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

PEOPLE ALREADY BEING LED ASTRAY - will be up until he is kicked out of heaven by Michael
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Again, Paul is going to say the exact same thing but add some details
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING

again PAUL MAKING SURE THE ORDER IS KNOWN. NOT TILL AFTER SATAN WILL ANYONE EVER SEE CHRIST
9 whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

You are Reframing that to just assume out of nowhere the ac is REVEALED at the second coming.

In fact, it says there is a departure from the faith FIRST.
THEN THE AC REVEALED.

" WHOM SHALL BE DESTROYED" LATER.

Again, your doctrine of omission ignores the comma.

kleronomos · Feb 7, 2022

Absolutely said:

How about trying to teach just one thing

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

You are Reframing that to just assume out of nowhere the ac is REVEALED at the second coming.

If fact it says there is a departure from the faith FIRST.
THEN THE AC REVEALED.

" WHOM SHALL BE DESTROYED" LATER.

Again, you doctrine of omossiom ignores the comma.

Absolutely said:

Here is the one i called you out on for skipping matt 24:36 ->

kleronomos · Feb 7, 2022

Absolutely said:

How about trying to teach just one thing

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

my posts are VERY clear.
Right to the point.
Pick one.

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

I OMITTED THEM? THAT IS YOUR ANSWER TO WHY I SAY THEY ARE ON EARTH AND YOU SAY THEY ARE IN HEAVEN?

BACK TO THE OLD TESTAMENT AGAIN? CAN THE CHURCH STAND ON ITS OWN AS IT CLAIMS OR CAN IT NOT? IS IT THIS SPECIAL ENTITY SET TO THE SPECIFIC TASK OF BEING THE BRIDE OF CHRIST OR WHAT? IS THERE A SPECIFIC ALL ITS OWN PURPOSE OR ISN'T THERE?

IT TAKES FROM EVERYTHING AROUND IT YET GIVES NO ADMITTANCE TO IT. IT IS THE MOST BIZZARE THING. YOUR RESPONSES FIT RIGHT IN. NO ACCOUNTABILITY AND LOOKING ON OTHERS LIKE THEY ARE THE PROBLEM AND BRUSHING THEM OFF WITH YET ANOTHER TWIST IN YOUR GO.

THIS THEORY IS LIKE WATER JUST FLOWING WHERE EVER IT WANTS WHEN EVER IT NEEDS SOMETHING TWISTING AND TURNING AS IT GOES.

MAKE THE CROOKED PATH STRAIGHT.

Another skip and dodge.
I asked you to factor in ruth as the gentile bride.
You go on a rant that has nothing at all to do with it.

kleronomos · Feb 7, 2022

CLEARLY BEGINS AFTER THE 2ND ADVENT

'THE LAMB' IS ON THE EARTH STANDING AGAIN. REMEMBER THE DIVISIONS ARE MADE BY MAN SO DON'T MAKE THEM MEAN THINGS THEY DON'T.

NOTICE THERE IS NO DESCENDING FROM HEAVEN BEING SPOKEN OF
Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Revelation 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

THE LORDS DAY IS BEGINNING
Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Revelation 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

THE WORDS OF GOD WILL BE PREACHED FOR THE LORDS DAY TOO, HENCE 'PRIESTS FOR 1000 YEARS'
Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

FOLLOW THE HINTS - REMEMBER - NOT ALL HAVE EYES TO SEE AND EARS TO HEAR

A RECAP OF WHAT HAS TAKEN PLACE PREVIOUSLY WE KNOW BECAUSE SATAN IS DESTROYED BY THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE LORDS COMING
Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

A WARNING TO US TO NOT BE A PART OF WHAT IS COMING
Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WHO DO
Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

REMEMBER THE WARNING - ENDURE TO THE END
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

ANOTHER VERSE TO LET US KNOW THAT THE BOOK OF REVELATION IS A BOOK NOT TO BE FOLLOWED IN THE ORDER IT IS WRITTEN
Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

BACK TO MORE INFO FOR US AND WHAT WILL BE TAKING PLACE WITH THOSE WHO TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST UPON THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS RETURN
Revelation 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Revelation 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

Revelation 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Revelation 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

Revelation 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

THIS AGE IS ENDING. SEPARATION IS TAKING PLACE. EARTH IS BEING CLEANSED AND ALL THOSE SOULS UNDER THE ALTAR ARE BEING AVENGED
Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Revelation 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

kleronomos · Feb 7, 2022

Absolutely said:

Is this an accurate description of how JESUS sees the Bride?

thou hast left thy first love do the first works or else I will come unto thee quickly and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate Repent or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication and she repented not Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds And I will kill her children with death and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

YOU ARE SAYING IT IS PRE TRIB APOSTASY, CORRECT?

I AM SAYING if it is ANYTHING at all the TIMING SUGGESTS IT IS AT THE END OF THE TRIB MORE THAN IN THE MIDDLE OR BEFORE. NOW I AM GOING TO DO THIS, KNOWING YOU WILL NOT.

Matthew 25

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh go ye out to meet him.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
NO ONE HAS BEEN SEDUCED AS OF YET. NO ONE HAS BEEN UNFAITHFAITHFUL TO GOD. ALL ARE CALLING THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS. AND ALL HAVE RECEIVED THE WARNING

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

SOME OF THE VIRGINS HAVE TAKEN THE WORDS OF GOD SERIOUSLY AND HAVE NOT PUT A SUPERFICIAL AMOUNT OF TIME INTO THE REALITY BUT GOTTEN DOWN AND REALLY STUDIED THE WORDS OF GOD. THEY HAVE PUT ON THE GOSPEL ARMOR AND ARE READY TO WITHSTAND THE FIERY DARTS OF SATAN. BY THAT THEY KNEW TO PREPARE FOR THE TRIBULATION COMING AND KNEW THERE WOULD BE NO BUYING AND SELLING AND SO PREPARED.

THE VIRGINS WHO WERE GIVING LIP SERVICE DIDN'T HEED THE WARNINGS AND DIDN'T PREPARE FOR THE DARKNESS TO COME UPON THE WORLD. NOW THEY HAVE RUN OUT OF SUPPLIES

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

THERE ISN'T GOING TO BE ENOUGH TIME TO TEACH ONCE THE TIME HAS ARRIVED. YOU ARE EITHER PREPARED OR YOU ARE NOT. NO ONE CAN GIVE YOU ALL YOU NEED. A 'PROBLEM' FOR THOSE 'TRIB SAINTS' THE THEORY SO COUNTS ON.

SO THOSE WHO DIDN'T PREPARE WILL BE SEDUCED BY THE DECEPTION "BUY AND SELL" THE LIES PUT FORTH. SATAN IS HERE AND THE IMAGE IS SET UP.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

THE 2ND ADVENT. THE FOOLISH VIRGINS BEING SEDUCED BY THE LYING SIGNS AND WONDERS ARE ALONG WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD WORSHIPPING AFTER THE BEAST. THEY ARE NO LONGER 'VIRGINS' THEY HAVE HOPPED INTO BED WITH THE ENEMY. THEY ARE NOW WITH HIS CHILD. THEY HAVE BECOME UN FAITHFUL TO GOD. THEY WERE DECEIVED.

AND CHRIST HAS RETURNED. THEY ARE A PART OF THE APOSTASY. THEY FELL AWAY FROM THE TRUTH.
Remember what Christ said?

Luke 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.

31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
BUT IT IS TOO LATE they have taken the mark of the beast.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

WATCH, do go running around. Don't believe them when they say 'lo there is Christ'.

WATCH, don't go buying and selling.

WATCH, don't be deceived.

WATCH, this stuff is coming.

WATCH and endure to the end.

WATCH FOR YOU CAN'T AND WONT KNOW WHEN CHRIST IS COMING UNTIL AFTER THE WORKINGS OF SATAN.

WATCH, DON'T DO.

WATCH, AND REMEMBER

" ANOTHER SHALL COME IN HIS NAME AND HIM YOU WILL WORSHIP"

Don't be deceived by any man

LO THERE IS CHRIST COME TO RAPTURE YOU AWAY FROM ALL GOD SAYS WILL HAPPEN TO YOU. IF YOU WILL BELIEVE A LIE LIKE THAT, THAT GOES AGAINST ALL GOD TELLS US ,

THEN YOU ARE EASILY DECEIVED

ALREADY

Nothing there about apostacy.
Nothing at all.

And yet your entire attempt at the parable centers there and OMITS what IS THERE.

Lets take a REASONABLE view of it.
Simce you are omission centered, lets look at what is omitted.
1) no destroyed earth
2) no slaughter of thecearths inhabitants
3) no mark of the beast on any virgins or eben mentioned
4) no horse for the groom
5) no antichrist army
6)) no return to earth (the dwelling of the virgins).
7) Jesus takes them, NOT INTO BATTLE, BUT DIRECTLY TO THR MARRIAGE CHAMBER AND SHUTS THE DOOR.

Need more???

Omission is not your friend.
It is mine
Because i use it all.

You chose to center there.
Omission by convenience is not even close to high ground.

FreeGrace2 · Feb 7, 2022

Absolutely said:

Why would anyone keep making this claim when EVERYONE (including you) knows that there aren't any "pretrib rapture verses"?

The idea of 'rapture' only means that "when He comes" (1 Cor 15:23) the living believers are gathered up "in the clouds" and receive their
glorified bodies, just after all the dead saints from heaven get theirs first. There is NO VERSE showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.

And YOU KNOW that.

No verse has ever been tortured when proving that the gathering of living believers occurs "when He comes", which is the Second Advent.

btw, I'd like to make a point here. I use these forums to share the verses/passages that have CONVINCED ME of what I believe.

I have no desire to convince anyone of anything. All anyone can do is share the evidence for WHY they believe something.

That's what I do. If you can convince me or anyone else that there will be pretrib resurrection and rapture with a trip to heaven afterwards, then please do. But the verses have to be clear enough to understand from the words themselves, so that knocks out Matt 25 and your poorly understood parable of the virgins.

FreeGrace2 · Feb 7, 2022

Absolutely said:
I called you out.
Specifically on what you omit.

By your dodge i can see you are off script, off balance and can not answer.

kleronomos said:

Oh oh. There's a problem. He doesn't do that much.

FreeGrace2 · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:
How about trying to teach just one thing

Absolutely said:

Oh wow. Great! How about a verse showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?

Can you post a clear or VERY clear verse that shows this?

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

CLEARLY BEGINS AFTER THE 2ND ADVENT

'THE LAMB' IS ON THE EARTH STANDING AGAIN. REMEMBER THE DIVISIONS ARE MADE BY MAN SO DON'T MAKE THEM MEAN THINGS THEY DON'T.

NOTICE THERE IS NO DESCENDING FROM HEAVEN BEING SPOKEN OF
Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Revelation 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

THE LORDS DAY IS BEGINNING
Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Revelation 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

THE WORDS OF GOD WILL BE PREACHED FOR THE LORDS DAY TOO, HENCE 'PRIESTS FOR 1000 YEARS'
Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

FOLLOW THE HINTS - REMEMBER - NOT ALL HAVE EYES TO SEE AND EARS TO HEAR

A RECAP OF WHAT HAS TAKEN PLACE PREVIOUSLY WE KNOW BECAUSE SATAN IS DESTROYED BY THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE LORDS COMING
Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

A WARNING TO US TO NOT BE A PART OF WHAT IS COMING
Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WHO DO
Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

REMEMBER THE WARNING - ENDURE TO THE END
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

ANOTHER VERSE TO LET US KNOW THAT THE BOOK OF REVELATION IS A BOOK NOT TO BE FOLLOWED IN THE ORDER IT IS WRITTEN
Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

BACK TO MORE INFO FOR US AND WHAT WILL BE TAKING PLACE WITH THOSE WHO TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST UPON THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS RETURN
Revelation 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Revelation 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

Revelation 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Revelation 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

Revelation 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

THIS AGE IS ENDING. SEPARATION IS TAKING PLACE. EARTH IS BEING CLEANSED AND ALL THOSE SOULS UNDER THE ALTAR ARE BEING AVENGED
Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Revelation 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

You do all that and ascribe you doctrine to it.

SMH....and do not even realize it is ONLY JEWS in heaven in the first verses.
You further omit that it is ONLY 144K OF THEM.
Then you omit they are FIRSTFRUITS.
That is your deceptive start to reframe the entire chapter.

SMH

kleronomos · Feb 7, 2022

Absolutely said:

Please show me where these 144K are in heaven during the Trib. AND I AM ASKING YOU TO SHOW ME,

HOW DID THEY GET THERE?

FreeGrace2 · Feb 7, 2022

Absolutely said:

Wow. Some real honesty here. Yes, indeed. Omission IS your friend and you DO USE IT all.

The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned