More on Christians and demons.

[studentoftheword]

Luke 22:3 -----

Luke 22:3

New International Version

3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve.

Strong's Concordance

eiserchomai: to go in (to), enter​

is used of demons or of Satan taking possession of the body of a person: Mark 9:25; Luke 8:30; Luke 22:3; John 13:27.

 

[SophieT]

All perfectly true, Biblical and even reasonable. Yet the Church in the Western world is not even remotely like what she should be. There is a war going on, Satan against the church. Lord Jesus defeated Satan but that victory must be enforced. "Resist the devil" is a command, not an option.

Lord Jesus said that believers would cast out demons.

I agree.

I did not object to the descriptive functions of the Holy Spirit in our lives

my objection is to student seeming to deny that it is the Spirit that is the power that casts out demons

he seems to believe that would be an exorcist...as in human endowed with the ability to exercise a demon (I am sure you know what an exorcist is)

 

[SophieT]

I should add the 'warning to be said by a priest only'....?

I am wondering if student is not Catholic?

I actually came across a site...perhaps I can find it again...that was Catholic but contained some very useful info with regards to the topic..some time back

 

[SophieT]

I'm using the word "possessed" in the sense of a demon occupying a place within the person. Demons are identified by their character. Someone who is full of bitterness and resentment may have a demon of unforgiveness. It is not that they have no control at all. But mention something that triggers unforgiveness, and the demon takes opportunity to incite the person to vent. I've met Christians who have been horrified by what has come out of their mouths. They know that they should control their tongues but for that moment, they were overtaken and helpless to stop.

I know a believer who had pornographic movies running through his imagination continually. He'd never seen such a movie, but he was unable to stop his imagination running wild. One of the brethren had a word of knowledge and raised the issue with him. The demon was duly cast out and the imaginations stopped immediately.

The world's concept of possession is how it is portrayed in horror movies. That depth of possession is rare. Some people such as witches, some Hindu priests, some Eastern religious practitioners, gurus, medicine men and such seek to be possessed in order to gain more power. Drug addicts are often far more open to evil spirits than the average person.

People may well be bound by demons before they come to Christ. I had a lot of experience with this early in my Christian life. Demons do not leave on their own accord. They must be cast out. Lord Jesus did this routinely. Then he told us to do the same. The premise that Christians cannot be inhabited by a demon is a lie from Satan. Countless Christians are fighting the wrong enemy.

I don't know if you watched the video I posted. You will see Christians acting as if they were totally controlled by another. No person can control others in that way. Demons certainly can. And do.

Christians are not exempt from spiritual principles. If they meet the conditions, they can be possessed. It won't be a show like in horror movies. Satan is smarter than that. But it will render the Christian helpless to overcome something that they know they should not be enslaved to. Many Christians have testified to this on this forum. Freedom is available. Psychology and Psychiatry are not the answer in such cases. They may be able to identify the problem and even treat the symptoms. They do not have the cure.

I have something to say about the word possession, but no time right now

later thanks

 

[BillG]

repost since the original by student was included in a reply


-This is a Prayer said today by Priest -----

An Exorcism Prayer - Warning: To be said by a Priest only

In the Name and by the power of Our Lord Jesus Christ, + may you be snatched away and driven from the Church of God and from the souls made to the image and likeness of God and redeemed by the Precious Blood of the Divine Lamb.

Exorcism

In the Name of Jesus Christ,
our God and Lord,
we confidently undertake to repulse the attacks and
deceits of the devil.
God arises;
His enemies are scattered
and those who hate Him flee before Him.
As smoke is driven away,
so are they driven;
as wax melts before the fire,
so the wicked perish at the presence of God.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The function of the Holy Spirit ----Nothing here about the Holy Spirit calling out demons ------

The following are 10 ways the Holy Spirit works in the lives of believers.
https://www.christianity.com/wiki/holy-spirit/10-roles-of-the-holy-spirit-in-christian-life.html1. The

Holy Spirit Is a Helper Who Teaches and Reminds
In John 14:26 Jesus told his disciples, “the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you” (John 14:26, ESV
The Holy Spirit provides wise counsel to Christ’s followers. Jesus knew he would be going away and that his followers would need the Holy Spirit as a helper and an advocate to remind them of his teachings.

2. The Holy Spirit Convicts the World of Sin
In addition to providing wise counsel, attorneys also provide evidence used to convict criminals. In a similar fashion, the Holy Spirit will prove the sin, righteousness, and judgment of the world.

3. The Holy Spirit Dwells in Believers and Fills Them
The Holy Spirit is God’s presence in the lives of believers.
“Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?” (1 Corinthians 3:16, ESV)

4. The Holy Spirit Is a Source of Revelation, Wisdom, and Power
“These are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except for their own spirit within them? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God” (1 Corinthians 2:10-11).

5. The Holy Spirit Guides to All Truth, Including Knowledge of What Is to Come
The Holy Spirit tells what is yet to come. The Holy Spirit is called the “Spirit of Truth” in John 16:13 because he guides believers into all truth. Jesus told his disciples the Holy Spirit would make known what he hears and would only speak what the Father speaks.


6. The Holy Spirit Gives Spiritual Gifts to Believers
Attributes of the Holy Spirit such as wisdom, knowledge, and power are manifested in the lives of believers for the good of others. More gifts are listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11.

7. The Holy Spirit Is a Seal in the Lives of Believers
In the ancient world, a seal was a “legal signature” attesting ownership and validating what was sealed.

The Holy Spirit is our mark of adoption as God’s children. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to his followers so that they could be confident in their salvation.

8. The Holy Spirit Helps in a Christian’s Weakness and Intercedes for Them
We all have times we feel weak and don’t know what to do. The Holy Spirit helps us line up with God’s will during those times by interceding for us.

9. The Holy Spirit Makes Believers New and Gives Them Eternal Life
Holy Spirit works in the lives of believers to renew, sanctify, and make us holy. Just as the Holy Spirit raised Christ from the dead, the Holy Spirit will give eternal life to believers in Christ.

10. The Holy Spirit Sanctifies and Enables Believers to Bear Good Fruit in Their Lives
The work of the Holy Spirit in a Christian’s life is an on-going process of becoming holy through sanctification. Through the conviction and power of the Holy Spirit, believers will not indulge the sinful acts of the flesh (Galatians 5:16-21) but will bear the good fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-25)

Also the following

Who exorcist the demon?

Paul or the Holy Spirit?

I say
It is not the job of the Holy Spirit to exorcist demons ----the Holt Spirit has a specific Job ---only the name of Jesus can exorcise a Demon -and that stands today ----for exorcising demons ---------the Holy Spirit is a separate person ----the 3rd person of the Trinity ----

Paul said-----
In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.

18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.

 

[SophieT]

Also the following

Who exorcist the demon?

Paul or the Holy Spirit?

I say
It is not the job of the Holy Spirit to exorcist demons ----the Holt Spirit has a specific Job ---only the name of Jesus can exorcise a Demon -and that stands today ----for exorcising demons ---------the Holy Spirit is a separate person ----the 3rd person of the Trinity ----

Paul said-----
In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.

18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.

well yes...in the Name of Jesus...but by the power of the Holy Spirit, who was sent to endow believers with the power to live for Christ and witness for Him

I believe that is the order of things? I could be wrong, but that is what I understand. He does not put Himself forward, but represents the will of God/Christ

However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come. John 16:13

 

[Gideon300]

How many demons have you cast out? Are you some sort of exorcist? I may be able to show you how it works.

God needs you to stop being a weirdo.

Exorcism is a topic I have researched. I have had some epic adventures through God.

Every born again Christian has the authority and power to cast out demons. I've cast out a number. I don't keep a record as it's nothing to boast about. If I am weird, it for the sake of the gospel. I've been insulted and mocked by experts. You'll have to do better than that to upset me.

 

[Gideon300]

You are right in the fact that you have authority --over Satan to break strongholds over your thought life ----but that is your job to do so -------your Spirit is Holy and God has forgiven your sins ---but Satan stills rules over this world and has access to every Born Again Christian's thoughts -----

Don't tell me that you---- if you are a Born Again Christian====== have never told a lie -----

God commands Don't Lie ----

So when was your last lie you told or got angry at someone ---not long ago I bet --------

is that God telling you to lie and to break His command ---or Satan putting the thought in your mind to lie --because you don't want to participate in the situation so you make up an excuse and act on your thought to lie to get out of participating ----

Satan didn't make you lie or get angry--Satan put the thought there and you acted on Satan's plea in your mind -----

So if you think that you have complete control over Satan interfering in a Born Again persons life ---you are being DUPED by Satan himself ----

Satan has the OK from God to still mess with Born Again peoples minds -----it is our responsibility to cast down the Thought and replace it with God's thought ------

And my friend that takes much work and practice on our part --------

Paul was born again and Satan harassed him -----Satan is still here and is very active in God's Children's minds ----

You would do good to read this ----


BREAKING STRONGHOLDS OF THE MIND
https://www.awesomechurch.com/breaking-strongholds-of-the-mind-part-1/

2 CORINTHIANS 10:3-6 NKJV
3 For though we walk in the flesh we do not war according to the flesh.
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

FOUR Central STRONGHOLDS OF THE MIND (there are perhaps many others but the Lord has directed me to these four)
1. FEAR – The debilitating sense of anxiety that restricts.
2. CONFUSION – That causes double mindless and restlessness.
3. ANGER – Producing frustration, agitation and harm in your life.
4. DESPAIR – Making you believe that life is not worth living.

I've been born again for over 50 years. I've read "War on the Saints" and Watchman Nee's section on the Battlefield of the mind. I wrestle with Satan's attacks every day. I agree with what you've said, I just don't know why you think I'm ignorant of these things.

 

[SophieT]

So little agreement among experts.

there are no experts here

thank you for your input

such insight as usual

 

[Blik]

Agreed that some issues are mental illness. However, I've watched Christians helpless on the floor, laughing uncontrollably. I've watched a Christian rocking backwards and forwards like an autistic child, fall on the floor and start writhing like a snake. I quietly bound the demon and the writhing stopped immediately. The Toronto Blessing video shows Christians under the control of demons.

There is a spiritual gift of discernment of spirits for a reason. This is one problem that won't be solved by ignoring it.

This problem is truly serious and it is being ignored. The most learned solution I have read about is to add men trained in exorcism to the church.

The church has used people with gift of discernment and it didn't work. If it is a policy of the church there needs to be professional training. A doctor needs to be consulted to be sure it is demons. The person hired to work with demons has taken on a dangerous profession and can use all the information available.

You knew the basic principle when you worked with demons--that they only respond to Christ, it is only through Christ they can be gotten rid of.

As it is, there is no professional person to go to for help, or even a way to find out if it is demons or physical illness causing trouble. The Catholic church is the only denomination that has had exorcist on staff, and I am most certainly not a Catholic. Demons don't ask what church denomination their enemies belong to, they look to see if it is Christ's word or not.

I lived with a person ill with Bipolar disorder for awhile. It is caused by glands not functioning correctly, but our gland functions respond to our thoughts. Test that yourself. Think Wow, I did that great, and everything seems great and good. Now slump and tell yourself you failed again, and everything seems wrong and bad. The Lord tells us to watch our thoughts.

We have professional pastors, we also need professional exorcists.

 

[Blik]

there are no experts here

This is the most truthful post here! We need, desperately, expert exorcists. We have ministers and pastors, we also need exorcist, especially ow we are going into the last days when we are told demons are more and more of a problem for us.

 

[JStates]

Perhaps some aren't experts?

Expert answer, right there.

 

[JStates]

I wonder why so many claiming to be Christians on this site have so many regular, overt encounters with demons. Like that one fellow who was talking about casting demons out of himself on a regular basis.

Do we need dedicated exorcists in the church? I don't see that the Bible says we do. Prove me wrong.

Anyone who says "a priest" should be the one casting out demons is suspect to me. "Priests" generally aren't Biblical Christians. They are often celibate... which the Bible explicitly states is actually a "doctrine of devils" - forbidding to marry. The Catholic system is built more on paganism and Luciferian mystery religion than it is on the Bible and Christ. So priest "exorcists" are charlatans in my eyes because Satan cannot cast out Satan.

And anyone recommending a priest exorcist or who suggests only priests can cast out demons is deceived.

Oh, not a demonology "expert" by the way, just a believer who knows enough Bible to smell stink when something stinks.

 

[Gideon300]

I agree.

I did not object to the descriptive functions of the Holy Spirit in our lives

my objection is to student seeming to deny that it is the Spirit that is the power that casts out demons

he seems to believe that would be an exorcist...as in human endowed with the ability to exercise a demon (I am sure you know what an exorcist is)

I believe that we should be more conscious of who we are in Christ. Peter said "What I have, I give to you...." That sounds like a boast, but he immediately goes on, "In the name of Jesus....." That's who we have. All the power and authority of Christ. That is not a boast, it is a fact. Some Christians are not aware of who they are in Christ and live in spiritual poverty. Others take the credit for themselves and are full of pride. Neither is correct.

The name of Jesus is our authority and the Holy Spirit is the power. We do not cast out demons in the name of the Holy Spirit!

 

[Gideon300]

This problem is truly serious and it is being ignored. The most learned solution I have read about is to add men trained in exorcism to the church.

The church has used people with gift of discernment and it didn't work. If it is a policy of the church there needs to be professional training. A doctor needs to be consulted to be sure it is demons. The person hired to work with demons has taken on a dangerous profession and can use all the information available.

You knew the basic principle when you worked with demons--that they only respond to Christ, it is only through Christ they can be gotten rid of.

As it is, there is no professional person to go to for help, or even a way to find out if it is demons or physical illness causing trouble. The Catholic church is the only denomination that has had exorcist on staff, and I am most certainly not a Catholic. Demons don't ask what church denomination their enemies belong to, they look to see if it is Christ's word or not.

I lived with a person ill with Bipolar disorder for awhile. It is caused by glands not functioning correctly, but our gland functions respond to our thoughts. Test that yourself. Think Wow, I did that great, and everything seems great and good. Now slump and tell yourself you failed again, and everything seems wrong and bad. The Lord tells us to watch our thoughts.

We have professional pastors, we also need professional exorcists.

We need neither. Pastor is a gift from God. Lord Jesus said that believers will cast out demons. I have no formal theological training. When I tried to apply, I was blocked. I wanted to go to Bible college, that also was blocked. The Lord simply did not want me to be an academic. I've learned what I know by both teaching by godly Christians and in the school of life.

The problem with paid professionals is the temptation for Christians to dump all responsibility for their Christian lives on them. I am glad that I was never ordained. I've seen too many pastors who have no life because their "flock" wants them to be available 24/7. No one is that good. Everyone needs a break once a week at least. Pastor "burnout" should never happen but it does.

 

[Blik]

I wonder why so many claiming to be Christians on this site have so many regular, overt encounters with demons. Like that one fellow who was talking about casting demons out of himself on a regular basis.

Do we need dedicated exorcists in the church? I don't see that the Bible says we do. Prove me wrong.

Anyone who says "a priest" should be the one casting out demons is suspect to me. "Priests" generally aren't Biblical Christians. They are often celibate... which the Bible explicitly states is actually a "doctrine of devils" - forbidding to marry. The Catholic system is built more on paganism and Luciferian mystery religion than it is on the Bible and Christ. So priest "exorcists" are charlatans in my eyes because Satan cannot cast out Satan.

And anyone recommending a priest exorcist or who suggests only priests can cast out demons is deceived.

Oh, not a demonology "expert" by the way, just a believer who knows enough Bible to smell stink when something stinks.

By your post I can see that you are speaking about things you haven't studied or gathered any facts about, you have no business messing up something as serious as demon possession. Either make a study of it or leave it to people who have made a study.

By the way, exorcist are exorcist, not priests. I hope you are not making yourself into a judge of professions.

 

[JStates]

By your post I can see that you are speaking about things you haven't studied or gathered any facts about, you have no business messing up something as serious as demon possession. Either make a study of it or leave it to people who have made a study.

By the way, exorcist are exorcist, not priests. I hope you are not making yourself into a judge of professions.

Your post is the epitome of what is known as an ad hominem fallacy. In other words a personal attack. Discuss my post on the merits of what I posted without attacking my person or competence, please, and I will take YOUR post seriously.

There are far too many people with firsthand experience/"expertise" with demons here on CC. Funny how most of what they say directly contradicts Scripture.

 

[Blik]

Your post is the epitome of what is known as an ad hominem fallacy. In other words a personal attack. Discuss my post on the merits of what I posted without attacking my person or competence, please, and I will take YOUR post seriously.

There are far too many people with firsthand experience/"expertise" with demons here on CC. Funny how most of what they say directly contradicts Scripture.

I most certainly do not mean anything personal, I am so sorry to post anything that can be read that way. I got so caught up in the subject I forgot there were humans involved.

I took a homeless woman in my home, then found she was bipolar, and watched her suffer. It so resembled demon possession, it sent me on a study of this. I would so like it if you changed your mind about what to do about demon possession, but I certainly do not want you attacked, personally.

 

[JStates]

I most certainly do not mean anything personal, I am so sorry to post anything that can be read that way. I got so caught up in the subject I forgot there were humans involved.

I took a homeless woman in my home, then found she was bipolar, and watched her suffer. It so resembled demon possession, it sent me on a study of this. I would so like it if you changed your mind about what to do about demon possession, but I certainly do not want you attacked, personally.

I think you may have misunderstood me. Jesus cast out demons. The apostles cast out demons. Christ's followers did as well.

My comments were directed at those who think it needs to be specifically a priest doing this - which is Biblically untrue, none of those casting out devils in the Bible were priests - or that we need to restructure the church to include dedicated exorcists - we do not, as any mature believer who has studied the Scriptures has authority through Christ to cast out demons.

"Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world."

 

[BillG]

well yes...in the Name of Jesus...but by the power of the Holy Spirit, who was sent to endow believers with the power to live for Christ and witness for Him

I believe that is the order of things? I could be wrong, but that is what I understand. He does not put Himself forward, but represents the will of God/Christ

However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come. John 16:13

Just to clarify, that is what student said