Isn't this just saying that all will stand in judgment? I don't see a WHEN being put forth.
The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
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Isn't this just saying that all will stand in judgment? I don't see a WHEN being put forth.
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43 Whereas thou sawest the iron mixed with earthenware, they shall be mingled with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave together, as the iron does not mix itself with earthenware.
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Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
Timing would be right
Timing would be right
52 and the tombs were opened and many bodies of the having fallen asleep saints arose
53 and having gone forth out of the tombs after the resurrection of Him, they entered into the holy city and appeared to many
I know I asked this before and apologize but can't remember the answer for some reason, if you could quickly share that info one more time I will copy and paste it somewhere...
Do you believe this is the ONLY resurrection of the JUST and we are awaiting the resurrection of the unjust? Not sure how this one and one resurrection is thought of. Thank you
1Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
Thanks Jackson for taking note. I did say `IF,` however it does seem like all the ducks are lining up there in the Middle East. You could check out my thread `Russia Preparing for War,` for more details.
Revelation 10:7 King James Version
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
The seventh angel is the angel of the Rapture - read Rev 11:15
Revelation 11:15 King James Version
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
There is an End Time message in the Bible that is described as the mystery of God (Rev 10:7) that will be revealed to the world, for the world to take heed to receive salvation and eternal life, but some may reject it. Our hope is they will not.
The End Time message spoken of in Rev 10:7 was sealed till the last days - read Daniel 12:9.
Daniel 12:9 King James Version
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
All previous prophecies are off the mark because God said the End Time prophecy is sealed till the time of the end.
There will be a time of great tribulation where it will be put to those left behind who did not heed the End Time message and missed the Rapture.
Because the Christians were raptured those left behind will then know there is a living God and realize the prophecy says the anti-Christ will test them with death and torture.
Revelation 13:15 King James Version
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Jesus has a message for those who are left behind when the anti-Christ rules on the earth.
Matthew 16:25 King James Version
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Soon we will be at Revelation 10:7 in time when the mystery of God is told to the world - when the message readies the world for the Rapture.
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
The seventh angel is the angel of the Rapture - read Rev 11:15
Revelation 11:15 King James Version
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
There is an End Time message in the Bible that is described as the mystery of God (Rev 10:7) that will be revealed to the world, for the world to take heed to receive salvation and eternal life, but some may reject it. Our hope is they will not.
The End Time message spoken of in Rev 10:7 was sealed till the last days - read Daniel 12:9.
Daniel 12:9 King James Version
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
All previous prophecies are off the mark because God said the End Time prophecy is sealed till the time of the end.
There will be a time of great tribulation where it will be put to those left behind who did not heed the End Time message and missed the Rapture.
Because the Christians were raptured those left behind will then know there is a living God and realize the prophecy says the anti-Christ will test them with death and torture.
Revelation 13:15 King James Version
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Jesus has a message for those who are left behind when the anti-Christ rules on the earth.
Matthew 16:25 King James Version
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Soon we will be at Revelation 10:7 in time when the mystery of God is told to the world - when the message readies the world for the Rapture.
Hi NewStarChoice,
Thank you for entering in. You had some good things to say, however I do not believe the Body of Christ will be on the earth at Rev. 10: 7.
You will see that the little book and the `angel` are shown in Daniel 12.
They relate to Israel - Dan. 12: 1, `your people,` relating to Daniel and the time of great trouble.
And Rev. 10: 6 shows that the fulfillment of that is about to happen.
The Body of Christ, however has previously been caught away to rule with the Lord n His own throne, (Rev. 3: 21) where they will judge the world system and fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3) And that is before the beginning of the trib.
Rev 13 is after rev 10 and in 13 ac still make war to body of Christ/holy people, mean still on earth
Rev 13
5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
FreeGrace2 said:
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
They have to argue at least 2 separate resurrections: the pretrib one, and then the posttrib martyrs as one. Some get kinda extreme and claim that there is a midtrib "harvest" (means resurrection to them).
There is only 1. And 1 Cor 15:23 does tell us WHEN that single resurrection will occur.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Correct. The verse doesn't mention when for either resurrection. I use this verse as proof that there will be only ONE resurrection for the saved. Which creates a big problem for the pretribbers, who must argue that the resurrection of believers occurs in "stages" or a "series" or some such idea.
They have to argue at least 2 separate resurrections: the pretrib one, and then the posttrib martyrs as one. Some get kinda extreme and claim that there is a midtrib "harvest" (means resurrection to them).
There is only 1. And 1 Cor 15:23 does tell us WHEN that single resurrection will occur.
FreeGrace2 said:
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
I wish those in opposition to my views would do the same. Instead, they just keep SAYING they have provided many verses, even though they haven't.
The verses you quoted in Matt 27 refer to what occurred when Jesus was crucified. They returned to life, but there is no evidence that any of them received glorified bodies, which is what the singular resurrection of the saved will accomplish.
Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
This verse clarifies the issue. Obviously Jesus and His disciples had raised a number of people from the dead, but again, there is no evidence that any of them received glorified (imperishable) bodies. That means all of them died again.
Jesus obviously wasn't "the first to rise from the dead" as the verse says, but He was the first to receive a glorified (imperishable) body. and that's the key to understanding resurrection of believers.
If any of those who rose from the dead before Jesus received a glorified body, then Acts 26:23 couldn't have been written.
That's why 1 Cor 15:23 rightly described the resurrection of Jesus as "first fruits". He was the very first human being who received a glorified body.
Rev 20:5 shows that the believers' single resurrection occurs after the Trib, which is called the "first resurrection", and the ending of Rev 20 shows that the "second resurrection" is the calling of all unbelievers to the GWT judgment.
I used to think that the LoF was called the "second death" several times in Revelation because the LoF is spiritual death.
But, all humans are already spiritually dead before they believe in Christ and are born again.
Since I've been giving much thought to the whole issue of resurrection, it occurred to me that unbelievers will be resurrected. Just like all the accounts of people being brought back from the dead, like the ones at Jesus' crucifixion, Lazarus, widow's son, etc, they will be resurrected BACK INTO their human mortal body. Remember, with God, everything is possible. He can certainly do that.
So, the unbeliever, back in his/her old skin, will be judged according to their works, and then cast into the LoF. So their mortal physical body gets to die AGAIN! That's a SECOND death for them.
And, of course, their disembodied souls will spend "day and night for ever and ever" in a state of lesser or greater bearableness.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
No need to apologize. It's hard to keep all the info straight when multiple posters are posting things. I'm always glad for the opportunity to clarify, review, etc when others ask.
I wish those in opposition to my views would do the same. Instead, they just keep SAYING they have provided many verses, even though they haven't.
The verses you quoted in Matt 27 refer to what occurred when Jesus was crucified. They returned to life, but there is no evidence that any of them received glorified bodies, which is what the singular resurrection of the saved will accomplish.
Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
This verse clarifies the issue. Obviously Jesus and His disciples had raised a number of people from the dead, but again, there is no evidence that any of them received glorified (imperishable) bodies. That means all of them died again.
Jesus obviously wasn't "the first to rise from the dead" as the verse says, but He was the first to receive a glorified (imperishable) body. and that's the key to understanding resurrection of believers.
If any of those who rose from the dead before Jesus received a glorified body, then Acts 26:23 couldn't have been written.
That's why 1 Cor 15:23 rightly described the resurrection of Jesus as "first fruits". He was the very first human being who received a glorified body.
Again, Acts 24:15 is clear about there being ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE for the unsaved. As of right now, we are awaiting both resurrections, since neither has occurred yet.
Rev 20:5 shows that the believers' single resurrection occurs after the Trib, which is called the "first resurrection", and the ending of Rev 20 shows that the "second resurrection" is the calling of all unbelievers to the GWT judgment.
I used to think that the LoF was called the "second death" several times in Revelation because the LoF is spiritual death.
But, all humans are already spiritually dead before they believe in Christ and are born again.
Since I've been giving much thought to the whole issue of resurrection, it occurred to me that unbelievers will be resurrected. Just like all the accounts of people being brought back from the dead, like the ones at Jesus' crucifixion, Lazarus, widow's son, etc, they will be resurrected BACK INTO their human mortal body. Remember, with God, everything is possible. He can certainly do that.
So, the unbeliever, back in his/her old skin, will be judged according to their works, and then cast into the LoF. So their mortal physical body gets to die AGAIN! That's a SECOND death for them.
And, of course, their disembodied souls will spend "day and night for ever and ever" in a state of lesser or greater bearableness.
But, Acts 24:15 and 1 Cor 15:23 are very clear about there being just ONE resurrrection of believers, and Rev 20:5 specifically calls the resurrrection of Trib martyrs the FIRST resurrection.
And, by the time of the the Tribulation, the VAST majority of the "Body of Christ" will have already died and been in heaven. Remember, there has been over 2,000 years since the "Body" was formed. So the living believers left will be a mere fraction of the total number.
But the "Body of Christ" more commonly thought of as "the Church" isn't the issue or key at all. Because 1 Cor 15:23 makes clear that at that single resurrrection of believers, it will be for "those who belong to Him". Now, can it be argued that believers in the OT don't belong to Him? Ofr course not. So we know from Scripture that ALL believers, from Adam on, will be resurrected at the same event, which is "when He comes", per 1 Cor 15:23.
Exactly.
All this time in the debate you do not know the verses or even care that you are omitting them.
That goes for most postribs.
I KNOW your doctrine.
You guys guess at ours.
Why?
Because you will not take the time to understand the doctrine.
It boils down to " caring". If you guys cared , you would learn what you are up against.
Instead you just guess at it.
Rev 14 the jews are gathered, then the main wrath.
Rev 14.
Read it.
3 gatherings.
But i know...
You will give a glance and refit it to not say what it doesn't
Very correct.
For additional clarity.......may I add.........the left's objection of staying with scriptures is part of their attempt to miss lead the believer away from following Christ.
I love correcting all your errors. We don't have to guess at the "pretrib" theory of rapture. Here it is: before the Tribulation, Jesus comes down in the clouds and raptures up all living believers and takes them to heaven, to miss the Trib.
Please correct me if I've mis-stated anything.
There is nothing to "understand" about your theory. in fact, since the Bible is very clear that there will be just ONE resurrection for all believers (1 Cor 15:23), and we know from Rev 20:5 that this ONE resurrection occurs after the Trib.
Yes, this is quite right. I care about truth and what Scripture says.
Since I KNOW what the Bible says, and DOESN'T say, I KNOW that your theory is unbiblical.
I'm guessing at nothing at all. I KNOW what the Bible says.
All you do is make claims that you can't show from the Bible. So why are YOU GUESSING so much?
Only 144 k are gathered in first few verses of rev 14
They are forever CANNONISED AS Firstfruits.
They are JEWISH FIRSTFRUITS.
Major component you of course left out.
Main harvest FOLLOWS firstfruits.
( which is something you opposed and rail against. you detest anything to do with the word "Harvest". And yet first fruits is INSEPARABLY CONNECTED to eschatology, and you willingly reframe first fruits because it does not fit your Doctrine). It is amazing Revelation 14 :14 is nothing other than the Gathering of the main Harvest of Jews. We see the first fruits JEWS gathered and then in verse 14 the main Harvest of Jews. It is also amazing that it happens right before the main wrath. But, I know that really rips your Doctrine up, so it is futile even taking you to it, or showing it to you.
You didn't know anything about it until I showed it to you. But you steered away from it, and of course reframed it, and you will never go back to it.
In fact let's see you use Revelation 14 :14 as a component in your post-tribulation rapture doctrine. I want to see how that fits your post-trib Rapture Doctrine.
I can tell you right now you can go to 50 YouTube sites where your teachers teach that post-trib Rapture Doctrine and you will never see any of them use Revelation 14 14 unless they think they can somehow reframe it ,and that would be due to a pretribber initiated it.
A postrib rapture teacher will never initiate it in presenting their erroneous Theory.
It rips it and destroys the entire deal.
It must be reframed to fit your doctrine.
You can holler "checkmate" .....but yes....change that bible.
Go ahead.
What a pathetic snipe! btw, who is "the left" anyway?
How can you say your side is "staying with scriptures" WHEN you have ZERO verses that support a pretrib rapture?
You are the ones who AREN'T "staying with scriptures".
yada yada yada.
I've already told you ch 14 is a summary of what's coming.
Ha. You say "erroneous" when it is the pretrib theory that can't be found in the Bible. I've been asking repeatedly and you haven't provided ANY verse that shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
Your theology is NOT found in the Bible. As much as you wish it did.
The Bible DOES teach that there will be ONE resurrection for all believers (1 Cor 15:23). If you disagree, then please address this verse and show where I'm wrong about what it says.
It rips it and destroys the entire deal.
It must be reframed to fit your doctrine.
You can holler "checkmate" .....but yes....change that bible.
Go ahead.[/QUOTE]
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