The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[FreeGrace2]

"""Since Rev 20:4,5 shows tribulational martyrs being resurrected and reigning with Christ, which clearly involves the Second Advent, we can confidently place both the Second Advent and "rapture" at the end of the Tribulation."""

Amazing that anyone actually promotes that with no basis whatsoever.

How silly. The verses themselves are the basis. That is, for those who believe the verses.

There is no resurrection AT rev 20.
NONE.

OK, here we go again.

New International Version
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
New Living Translation
This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.)
English Standard Version
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
Berean Study Bible
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.
Berean Literal Bible
The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years shall have been completed. This is the first resurrection.
King James Bible
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
New King James Version
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
New American Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
NASB 1995
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
NASB 1977
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Amplified Bible
The rest of the dead [the non-believers] did not come to life again until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Christian Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
American Standard Version
The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And this is the first resurrection.
Douay-Rheims Bible
The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
English Revised Version
The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
Good News Translation
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first raising of the dead.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
The rest of the dead did not live until the 1,000 years ended. This is the first time that people come back to life.
International Standard Version
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were over. This is the first resurrection.
Literal Standard Version
and the rest of the dead did not live again until the one thousand years may be completed; this [is] the first resurrection.
NET Bible
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.
New Heart English Bible
The rest of the dead did not live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Weymouth New Testament
No one else who was dead rose to Life until the thousand years were at an end. This is the First Resurrection.
World English Bible
The rest of the dead didn't live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Young's Literal Translation
and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this is the first rising again.

Every translation mentions either a "first resurrection" or "first time people were raised from the dead".

Not difficult to figure out. Your claim is FLAT WRONG.

A resurrected group ALREADY RESURRECTED AND SEATED IS CALLED THE FIRST RESURRECTION.

Well, what are you waiting for? Just QUOTE the verse, if you have one.

But even beyond that they are CLASSIFIED AS "this is the first resurrection "

This would be the Trib martyrs. For those who read.

Which leaves it as a "dynamic" for the reader. ( NOT A MAGIC STATEMENT saying they are THE ONLY POSSIBLE "first resurrection")

I'm not saying they are the "only possible" ones.

Further demolishing the postrib view is that the SETTING IS WAY,WAY OFF.

I'll tell you who is WAY OFF: YOU. By claiming that there is no "resurrection" in Rev 20.

That setting is AFTER Armageddon. AFTER SATAN is chained, and after the martyrs are seated.
That scene could be days or weeks AFTER the second coming on horses.

Why would any reasonable person assume that everything occurs at the same exact time??

NOW....postribs i suppose do not bother to look at 1 thes 4...
AHEM....drum roll please...THE FIRST RESURRECTION!!!!!

Right. Where does the passage mention that it occurs before the Trib?
Or BETTER YET, where in the passage does it mention Jesus taking these glorified believers to heaven?


SO THEY are very ignorant to suggest that 1thes 4 is after Armageddon, Satan chained, and the martyrs seated on thrones.!!!!!

Or how bizarre can you get to picture those martyred DURING THE TRIB as receiving thrones and believers martyred last week as having no such reward??????

NO JOKE FOLKS....this is exactly where false doctrine leads.[/QUOTE]

 

[Absolutely]

How silly. The verses themselves are the basis. That is, for those who believe the verses.


OK, here we go again.

New International Version
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
New Living Translation
This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.)
English Standard Version
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
Berean Study Bible
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.
Berean Literal Bible
The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years shall have been completed. This is the first resurrection.
King James Bible
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
New King James Version
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
New American Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
NASB 1995
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
NASB 1977
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Amplified Bible
The rest of the dead [the non-believers] did not come to life again until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Christian Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
American Standard Version
The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And this is the first resurrection.
Douay-Rheims Bible
The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
English Revised Version
The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
Good News Translation
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first raising of the dead.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
The rest of the dead did not live until the 1,000 years ended. This is the first time that people come back to life.
International Standard Version
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were over. This is the first resurrection.
Literal Standard Version
and the rest of the dead did not live again until the one thousand years may be completed; this [is] the first resurrection.
NET Bible
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.
New Heart English Bible
The rest of the dead did not live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Weymouth New Testament
No one else who was dead rose to Life until the thousand years were at an end. This is the First Resurrection.
World English Bible
The rest of the dead didn't live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Young's Literal Translation
and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this is the first rising again.

Every translation mentions either a "first resurrection" or "first time people were raised from the dead".

Not difficult to figure out. Your claim is FLAT WRONG.


Well, what are you waiting for? Just QUOTE the verse, if you have one.


This would be the Trib martyrs. For those who read.


I'm not saying they are the "only possible" ones.


I'll tell you who is WAY OFF: YOU. By claiming that there is no "resurrection" in Rev 20.


Why would any reasonable person assume that everything occurs at the same exact time??


Right. Where does the passage mention that it occurs before the Trib?
Or BETTER YET, where in the passage does it mention Jesus taking these glorified believers to heaven?


SO THEY are very ignorant to suggest that 1thes 4 is after Armageddon, Satan chained, and the martyrs seated on thrones.!!!!!

Or how bizarre can you get to picture those martyred DURING THE TRIB as receiving thrones and believers martyred last week as having no such reward??????

NO JOKE FOLKS....this is exactly where false doctrine leads.

Lets see what it says as opposed to your exclusive interpretation.

Rev 20 ;4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

**Beheaded in the trib**
**Refused the mark in the trib**
**Did not worship the ac in the trib.**

YOU say that is 1 thes 4 correct?
First resurrection of the dead in Christ, correct?

So lets say you are right.

Only those martyrs of the gt are the first resurrection..as you say over and over..

Postribber False doctrine in order to falsely "prove" a postrib rapture.

Psssst....it can not be.
1 the setting is way off
2 there are millions of martyrs of christ APART FROM THE GT.
3 there are zero postrib rapture verses to compliment your "only ac martyred group" as the First resurrection.

The whole assumption of a resurrection AT rev 20 is impossible and bizarre.

It ONLY points to a cross section of the total ( no brainer) picture, which INClUDES those martyred last week.

IMPOSSIBLE that that cross section of martyrs is the entire first resurrection of 1 thes 4.

Or that 1 thes 4 is after satan chained and after armageddon.

Like i said false doctrine has a destination.

 

[cv5]

FreeGrace2 said:
If pretrib rapture was correct doctrine, why isn't there ANY verse that actually shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?

Seems like a huge omit if it were true.

The Bible refers to the resurrection of believers in the singular. There is therefore just one. Not "stages" or "series" of them. Just one.

1 Cor 15:23 shows that ALL believers (those who belong to Him) will be resurrected "when He comes", which is the Second Advent.

And 2 Thess 2:1 says all this in very clear words.

Do you?? I've posted clear verses. I can't help what YOU don't comprehend.


You want facts, huh? Well, I've given you biblical verses, which ARE facts, buddy.

Where is the FACT that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven? Huh? What verse shows this?

Don't talk to me about facts UNTIL you have some yourself. All you have is presumption.

TDW is right and you're wrong. Not complicated.

Sounds to me like you got your eschatology out of a cracker jack box. Just saying....

 

[FreeGrace2]

Lets see what it says as opposed to your exclusive interpretation.

HUH? You mean I provided an interpretation of the 26 verses that plainly used the word "resurrection" or "rise from the dead"???

How gauche can you get? The verses SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. I added nothing.

Rev 20 ;4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This is just amaing. You previously said that "resurrection" isn't found in Rev 20, and here you go, actually quoting v.5, which includes the word "resurrection".

**Beheaded in the trib**
**Refused the mark in the trib**
**Did not worship the ac in the trib.**

Do these phrases have some relevance to this discussion? If so, please provide some explanation.

YOU say that is 1 thes 4 correct?
First resurrection of the dead in Christ, correct?

No, please pay attention for a change. The singular resurrection of the SAVED, per 1 Cor 15:23, is "when He comes". Some like to play word games with "dead in Christ". Yet, there aren't any verses that use that phrase with resurrection.

The correct phrase is "those who belong to Him", per 1 Cor 15:23. If you want to split hairs, quote that verse and provide a coherent explanation of why "those who belong to Him" CANNOT include believers who died before the First Advent.

So lets say you are right.

That would be a start.

Only those martyrs of the gt are the first resurrection..as you say over and over..

Nope. Never said "only". That's your dishonest inserting of words that I NEVER said. Stop it.

Postribber False doctrine in order to falsely "prove" a postrib rapture.

Said the highly dishonest pretribber who doesn't want the truth out about it.

Psssst....it can not be.

Again, I never said "only".

1 the setting is way off

You have proved nothing.

2 there are millions of martyrs of christ APART FROM THE GT.

Sure. And all of them are in heaven right now, waiting to accompany Him back to earth for their glorified bodies. Rev 19

3 there are zero postrib rapture verses to compliment your "only ac martyred group" as the First resurrection.

OK, just keep pushing your LYING agenda here. I've NEVER said "only" in regard to the trib martyrs.

The whole assumption of a resurrection AT rev 20 is impossible and bizarre.

Are you able to explain what the sentence "This is the first resurrection" refers to in Rev 20:5 then?

It ONLY points to a cross section of the total ( no brainer) picture, which INClUDES those martyred last week.

The FACT that the Bible clearly teaches a singular resurrection of the saved, PROVES that Rev 20:5 locates that singular resurrection after the Trib.

IMPOSSIBLE that that cross section of martyrs is the entire first resurrection of 1 thes 4.

Why? Can you explain yourself, if able?

Or that 1 thes 4 is after satan chained and after armageddon.

Of course it is. There is only 1 resurrection. It cannot be before the Trib, because Rev 20:5 and 2 Thess 2:1 both locate the singular resurrection after the Trib. Checkmate, mate.

Like i said false doctrine has a destination.

You have certainly demonstrated that. Frequenty. And by adding words to posts who have NOT used those words.

Very dishonest.

 

[FreeGrace2]

TDW is right and you're wrong. Not complicated.

Neither he nor you have proved this. Your claims are quite empty without evidence.

Sounds to me like you got your eschatology out of a cracker jack box. Just saying....

Sounds like you love to make childish snarks.

 

[Absolutely]

HUH? You mean I provided an interpretation of the 26 verses that plainly used the word "resurrection" or "rise from the dead"???

How gauche can you get? The verses SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. I added nothing.


This is just amaing. You previously said that "resurrection" isn't found in Rev 20, and here you go, actually quoting v.5, which includes the word "resurrection".


Do these phrases have some relevance to this discussion? If so, please provide some explanation.


No, please pay attention for a change. The singular resurrection of the SAVED, per 1 Cor 15:23, is "when He comes". Some like to play word games with "dead in Christ". Yet, there aren't any verses that use that phrase with resurrection.

The correct phrase is "those who belong to Him", per 1 Cor 15:23. If you want to split hairs, quote that verse and provide a coherent explanation of why "those who belong to Him" CANNOT include believers who died before the First Advent.


That would be a start.


Nope. Never said "only". That's your dishonest inserting of words that I NEVER said. Stop it.


Said the highly dishonest pretribber who doesn't want the truth out about it.


Again, I never said "only".


You have proved nothing.


Sure. And all of them are in heaven right now, waiting to accompany Him back to earth for their glorified bodies. Rev 19


OK, just keep pushing your LYING agenda here. I've NEVER said "only" in regard to the trib martyrs.


Are you able to explain what the sentence "This is the first resurrection" refers to in Rev 20:5 then?


The FACT that the Bible clearly teaches a singular resurrection of the saved, PROVES that Rev 20:5 locates that singular resurrection after the Trib.


Why? Can you explain yourself, if able?


Of course it is. There is only 1 resurrection. It cannot be before the Trib, because Rev 20:5 and 2 Thess 2:1 both locate the singular resurrection after the Trib. Checkmate, mate.


You have certainly demonstrated that. Frequenty. And by adding words to posts who have NOT used those words.

Very dishonest.

"""The FACT that the Bible clearly teaches a singular resurrection of the saved, PROVES that Rev 20:5 locates that singular resurrection after the Trib."""

Lol
You just placed the white horses and the resurrection A WEEK AFTER the white horses arrive at the second coming.

Digging yourself continually deeper
Lol

 

[Absolutely]

HUH? You mean I provided an interpretation of the 26 verses that plainly used the word "resurrection" or "rise from the dead"???

How gauche can you get? The verses SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. I added nothing.


This is just amaing. You previously said that "resurrection" isn't found in Rev 20, and here you go, actually quoting v.5, which includes the word "resurrection".


Do these phrases have some relevance to this discussion? If so, please provide some explanation.


No, please pay attention for a change. The singular resurrection of the SAVED, per 1 Cor 15:23, is "when He comes". Some like to play word games with "dead in Christ". Yet, there aren't any verses that use that phrase with resurrection.

The correct phrase is "those who belong to Him", per 1 Cor 15:23. If you want to split hairs, quote that verse and provide a coherent explanation of why "those who belong to Him" CANNOT include believers who died before the First Advent.


That would be a start.


Nope. Never said "only". That's your dishonest inserting of words that I NEVER said. Stop it.


Said the highly dishonest pretribber who doesn't want the truth out about it.


Again, I never said "only".


You have proved nothing.


Sure. And all of them are in heaven right now, waiting to accompany Him back to earth for their glorified bodies. Rev 19


OK, just keep pushing your LYING agenda here. I've NEVER said "only" in regard to the trib martyrs.


Are you able to explain what the sentence "This is the first resurrection" refers to in Rev 20:5 then?


The FACT that the Bible clearly teaches a singular resurrection of the saved, PROVES that Rev 20:5 locates that singular resurrection after the Trib.


Why? Can you explain yourself, if able?


Of course it is. There is only 1 resurrection. It cannot be before the Trib, because Rev 20:5 and 2 Thess 2:1 both locate the singular resurrection after the Trib. Checkmate, mate.


You have certainly demonstrated that. Frequenty. And by adding words to posts who have NOT used those words.

Very dishonest.

"""Sure. And all of them are in heaven right now, waiting to accompany Him back to earth for their glorified bodies. Rev 19"""

Which YOU PLACE after the devil chained and AFTER ...well after the second coming.
Pssst..the setting of rev 20.
(those you claim are the first resurrection.)

 

[Absolutely]

HUH? You mean I provided an interpretation of the 26 verses that plainly used the word "resurrection" or "rise from the dead"???

How gauche can you get? The verses SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. I added nothing.


This is just amaing. You previously said that "resurrection" isn't found in Rev 20, and here you go, actually quoting v.5, which includes the word "resurrection".


Do these phrases have some relevance to this discussion? If so, please provide some explanation.


No, please pay attention for a change. The singular resurrection of the SAVED, per 1 Cor 15:23, is "when He comes". Some like to play word games with "dead in Christ". Yet, there aren't any verses that use that phrase with resurrection.

The correct phrase is "those who belong to Him", per 1 Cor 15:23. If you want to split hairs, quote that verse and provide a coherent explanation of why "those who belong to Him" CANNOT include believers who died before the First Advent.


That would be a start.


Nope. Never said "only". That's your dishonest inserting of words that I NEVER said. Stop it.


Said the highly dishonest pretribber who doesn't want the truth out about it.


Again, I never said "only".


You have proved nothing.


Sure. And all of them are in heaven right now, waiting to accompany Him back to earth for their glorified bodies. Rev 19


OK, just keep pushing your LYING agenda here. I've NEVER said "only" in regard to the trib martyrs.


Are you able to explain what the sentence "This is the first resurrection" refers to in Rev 20:5 then?


The FACT that the Bible clearly teaches a singular resurrection of the saved, PROVES that Rev 20:5 locates that singular resurrection after the Trib.


Why? Can you explain yourself, if able?


Of course it is. There is only 1 resurrection. It cannot be before the Trib, because Rev 20:5 and 2 Thess 2:1 both locate the singular resurrection after the Trib. Checkmate, mate.


You have certainly demonstrated that. Frequenty. And by adding words to posts who have NOT used those words.

Very dishonest.

Quote abs;"Only those martyrs of the gt are the first resurrection..as you say over and over.."

Fg reply
"Nope. Never said "only". That's your dishonest inserting of words that I NEVER said. Stop it."

Oh ok, so they are a SEGENT OF the first resurrection

Glad we agree

 

[Absolutely]

HUH? You mean I provided an interpretation of the 26 verses that plainly used the word "resurrection" or "rise from the dead"???

How gauche can you get? The verses SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. I added nothing.


This is just amaing. You previously said that "resurrection" isn't found in Rev 20, and here you go, actually quoting v.5, which includes the word "resurrection".


Do these phrases have some relevance to this discussion? If so, please provide some explanation.


No, please pay attention for a change. The singular resurrection of the SAVED, per 1 Cor 15:23, is "when He comes". Some like to play word games with "dead in Christ". Yet, there aren't any verses that use that phrase with resurrection.

The correct phrase is "those who belong to Him", per 1 Cor 15:23. If you want to split hairs, quote that verse and provide a coherent explanation of why "those who belong to Him" CANNOT include believers who died before the First Advent.


That would be a start.


Nope. Never said "only". That's your dishonest inserting of words that I NEVER said. Stop it.


Said the highly dishonest pretribber who doesn't want the truth out about it.


Again, I never said "only".


You have proved nothing.


Sure. And all of them are in heaven right now, waiting to accompany Him back to earth for their glorified bodies. Rev 19


OK, just keep pushing your LYING agenda here. I've NEVER said "only" in regard to the trib martyrs.


Are you able to explain what the sentence "This is the first resurrection" refers to in Rev 20:5 then?


The FACT that the Bible clearly teaches a singular resurrection of the saved, PROVES that Rev 20:5 locates that singular resurrection after the Trib.


Why? Can you explain yourself, if able?


Of course it is. There is only 1 resurrection. It cannot be before the Trib, because Rev 20:5 and 2 Thess 2:1 both locate the singular resurrection after the Trib. Checkmate, mate.


You have certainly demonstrated that. Frequenty. And by adding words to posts who have NOT used those words.

Very dishonest.

"""Of course it is. There is only 1 resurrection. It cannot be before the Trib, because Rev 20:5 and 2 Thess 2:1 both locate the singular resurrection after the Trib. Checkmate, mate."""

Lol
You will NEVER be able to cross the rev 14 hurdle.
You guys MUST IGNORE the gatherings DURING THE TRB.

PSSSSST......That makes your supposed resurrection of 1 thes 4 AFTER the living of rev 14.

What was that word again???
Oh yes.... checkmate.

Now Reframe rev 14, remember it needs to fit your doctrine.

 

[Jackson123]

Name 3 pretrib rapture verses and why they do not matter.

Lets see if you weigh scripture or just promote postrib by disagreeing In hyper generalities.

What are those

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
HUH? You mean I provided an interpretation of the 26 verses that plainly used the word "resurrection" or "rise from the dead"???

How gauche can you get? The verses SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. I added nothing.

"""The FACT that the Bible clearly teaches a singular resurrection of the saved, PROVES that Rev 20:5 locates that singular resurrection after the Trib."""

Lol
You just placed the white horses and the resurrection A WEEK AFTER the white horses arrive at the second coming.

Are you ok? I quoted 26 verses that proved you were wrong about Rev 20:5 and the word resurrection.

I've also proved that the Bible teaches a single resurrection for the saved.

When the verses are considered together, it is MORE THAN CLEAR that this singular resurrection of the saved occurs "when He comes", according to 1 Cor 15:23, which is the Second Advent.

And this is how you respond?? Why do you bother on these forums if you can't figure out the truth?

Digging yourself continually deeper
Lol

You're just embarrassing yourself more and more.

And you STILL have ZERO verses of the rapture showing Jesus taking believers to heaven.

Unbelievable.

 

[FreeGrace2]

"""Sure. And all of them are in heaven right now, waiting to accompany Him back to earth for their glorified bodies. Rev 19"""

Which YOU PLACE after the devil chained and AFTER ...well after the second coming.

You're having a really difficult time trying to follow this discussion, it seems. Rev 19 shows preparation for the Second Advent. Then in v.19-21 is the victory by the King of kings over the battle of Armageddon.

Rev 20 is what occurs AFTER that.

Pssst..the setting of rev 20.
(those you claim are the first resurrection.)

Well, v.5 SAYS SO, and I don't argue with God's Word, as you seem to love to do.

You even quoted Rev 20:5 in spite of your ridiculous claim that there is "no resurrection" in ch 20. lol

 

[FreeGrace2]

Quote abs;"Only those martyrs of the gt are the first resurrection..as you say over and over.."

Fg reply
"Nope. Never said "only". That's your dishonest inserting of words that I NEVER said. Stop it."

Oh ok, so they are a SEGENT OF the first resurrection

Glad we agree

No, let's be clear AND HONEST here. There are 2 resurrections total for the human race. One for the saved and one for the unsaved.

If you want to argue about it, then please explain this verse:

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

The FIRST resurrection is for the saved. The next one is for the unsaved, in which they will be gathered for the GWT judgment, just before being cast into the LoF. Rev 20:11-15.

It's all there, in black and white. Please read it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

"""Of course it is. There is only 1 resurrection. It cannot be before the Trib, because Rev 20:5 and 2 Thess 2:1 both locate the singular resurrection after the Trib. Checkmate, mate."""

Lol
You will NEVER be able to cross the rev 14 hurdle.
You guys MUST IGNORE the gatherings DURING THE TRB.

I've already told you the truth; Rev 14 is a summary of what's coming. But go ahead and ignore it. Like all the other verses you ignore.

PSSSSST......That makes your supposed resurrection of 1 thes 4 AFTER the living of rev 14.

Prove it with a reasonable and rational explanation, if you are capable.

What was that word again???
Oh yes.... checkmate.
Now Reframe rev 14, remember it needs to fit your doctrine.

I don't have to reframe anything, as you fantasize.

Rev 14 summarizes what will come. Easy peasy.

You're still on checkmate, mate.

 

[Marilyn]

With respect I am stating my opinion that this is utter nonsense. Full seven years would be 2520 days and you are taking the prophet Daniel's message of days and turning them into gibberish.

Dan 9:27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease-----half the week or middle of the 7 years would be 1260 days, not when Jesus returns.

Millennium is a 1000 years and how do you get 45 days to represent that??????

Hi Omegatime,

I don`t think you have read my diagram correctly. Of course I believe that Israel`s 70th week is 7 years, 2,520 days. And half the `week` is presented as the `image,` on the diagram.

Also the word Millennium indicates that it goes on from after the 1,335 days.

Hope we can clear that all up.

 

[Marilyn]

What would be the 'starting point' for these many days?

1,260 days = 42 months = 3.5 years. He rules only for 3.5 years. That begins at the midpoint of the Tribulation.

The A/C starts his rule just before the middle of the 70th week. Remember that the trib, is shortened, and thus is less than the 7 years, by one month. It is the stopping of the sacrifice and setting up the image which is in the midpoint of the 7 years.

 

[Marilyn]

When does Israel celebrate the Feast of Trumpets? I suppose it is an annual celebration.

Thanks.

Many people have thought that the next feast, the Feast of trumpets has to start in the 7th month when they are celebrated now, however I believe that is not correct. Here is my picture -





Trumpets

The Feast of Trumpets fulfilment is Israel`s dark day. It occurs at the New Moon when the primary night light of the heavens is darkened. Israel`s prophets repeatedly warned of a coming dark day of judgment. They knew it as `the Day of the Lord,` that terrible period of time at the end of the age when the Lord will pour out His fiery judgment not only upon Israel`s enemies, but upon Israel herself to bring her to repentance and into the New Covenant.

Day of Atonement

Yom Kippur events prophetically points to Messiah`s future work with the nation of Israel. They will occur at Messiah`s coming to establish His ruler through Israel. As a nation Israel will come face to face in repentance with their Messiah - Israel`s national Day of repentance. (Zech. 12: 7 - 14)

Tabernacles

When the Messiah sets up His millennial kingdom rule, He will gather the remnant of Israel back to her land. The righteous among the Gentiles, too, will be gathered to the Lord. They will go up from year to year to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles - God is with us. (Zech. 14: 16 - 21)

 

[Omegatime]

Hi Omegatime,

I don`t think you have read my diagram correctly. Of course I believe that Israel`s 70th week is 7 years, 2,520 days. And half the `week` is presented as the `image,` on the diagram.

Also the word Millennium indicates that it goes on from after the 1,335 days.

Hope we can clear that all up.

I sure didnt get that from your drawing and I would say the millenium begins at the 1335th day, called the Day of the Lord. Then I guess we much closer. Here is another piece of the puzzle.

Dan 2:44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people.

 

[Marilyn]

I sure didnt get that from your drawing and I would say the millenium begins at the 1335th day, called the Day of the Lord. Then I guess we much closer. Here is another piece of the puzzle.

Dan 2:44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people.

Glad we can sort it out. Sorry the diagram was confusing to you.

 

[Marilyn]

Here are some Feasts Israel celebrates but are not as well known. Two of these are in God`s word - Hunukkah, (Dedication John 10: 22 - 24) and Purim ( Esther 9: 21, 27 & 28)



Tisha B`Av - Mourning. 17th of Tammuz - 9th of Av)

This is a Three Week annual mourning period that falls out in the summer, from 17th day of Tammuz to the 9th Av. This is when Israel mourns the destruction of the Holy Temple and the launch into a still ongoing exile.

Hanukkah - Rededication. (25th of Kislev - 2nd of Tevet)

This feast commemorates the rededication of the Temple in 164 B.C. On Hanukkah the Jews celebrate the expulsion of the Syrians by Judas Maccabeus and the cleansing and rededication of the Jerusalem Temple, which the Syrians had desecrated.

It is celebrated on the 25thday of Kislev through to the 2nd of Tevet, 8 days.(Ez. 43: 26 & 27) It was at this Feast of Dedication that the Jews wanted to know if He was the Messiah. (John 10: 22 - 24)



Purim - National Deliverance & Celebration. (14th and 15th of Adar)

This Feast celebrates the failure of Haman`s plot to destroy the Jews. It is a time of feasting and joy when the people celebrate the deliverance of the Jews from death through the bravery of the Jewish Queen Esther of Persia. (Esther 9: 21, 27 - 28)

It is celebrated on the 14th of Adar in the country and on the 15th of Adar (last month) in Jerusalem.