Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!
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Again, that is a gamble that you must be willing to take. I am not willing to take it. Good luck if that is what you are wanting to do.
All I am saying is that Revelation 20:10 gives a definition for what it means to be cast into the lake of fire.
That more than satan, the beast, and the false prophet, will be cast there is in the word of God; it is not adding to it to say that there will be more than just those three in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15 specifically tells us that all whose names are not written in the Book of Life will be cast there.
I am not adding to the book of Revelation; the doctrine in question is included in the book (Revelation 20:15).
I'm sure having ones shame exposed iwill be a painful experience, but that experience isn't eternal.
which is something the KJV translates 3 different words as.
i'm not kjv-only, tho i respect people who are. i almost always quote nkjv these days and that's partly because of how i've grown to respect them and learn from them, and partly because nkjv capitalizes pronouns referring to God, so i don't have to go and edit it, because that's a personal hangup of my own. you'll notice maybe i hardly ever capitalize anything except the name of god and things referring to Him. to me, that's not a whole lot different than the kjv 'faction' ((? lack of better term)) - we're family.
what you're bring up there is something that is tough for them - i usually like to point out how much 2 sparrows currently sell for, or what the actual historical & demographic usage of a farthing is. that's subtle, but their argument is based on absolutisms, so it's tested at the least of the constraints.
the people here who have strong beliefs about the kjb, i've been around the block with a number of times. i love them and i hope they love me. i don't need to go over all that business again, but at the same time hey wow that's a good point you're making. i never thought of that!
but on that point, the NT uses gehenna and hades and the lake of fire for at least 2 ((i think 2; gehenna = lake of fire / second death)) different things. that's not "two hells" and it is "two hells" or maybe it's neither because we need a definition of hell. hell isn't a Biblical word. it's an English-language Biblical word. that's different.
hi - i'm post; i'm a mathematician. kind of the de-facto CC mathematician. something post says often is that we can't have a discussion without agreed on, specific definitions of what we discuss. that's a math-fact© -- you can't even begin to solve 1 + 2 = ____ until you know what 1 is, what 2 is, what + is, and what = is
anyway, you're absolutely right -- what this is really about is the persistence/immortality of the soul. whether everyone utterly ceases to exist when the body dies (( lol no, i mean, wow, Bible much? is 'life' a merely fleshly thing? )) and whether God's eventual ((time-reference)) eternal judgement is something the soul undergoes and experiences forever or whether it's something that only occurs for a comparative instant and then it's over.
i'm trying to take a day or two off for the weekend, for breathing space. God seems to be working to bring that to pass - and maybe we can spend more time talking then. meanwhile i appreciate your patience with me ((i.e. thanks for reading my drivel)) and i really do admire you distilling the whole conversation down to its stochastic elements in your other comment.
And the Lake of Fire is the second death. Death means they don't live forever. If you're willing to take the gamble that those who reject the gospel receive Eternal Life in the lake of fire, then that's on you. I won't go there.
You should consider the possibility that your beliefs contradict the texts that allegedly support your beliefs. I believed like how you do, merely a year or so ago, too, because I hadn't studied hell, the soul, the lake of fire, etc, yet. Actually, you should consider that popular Christianity is riddled with false doctrines and heresies. Have the Berean mentality and don't be afraid to revisit the elementary teachings. Most importantly, ask God and listen for an answer.
Amen.. The word is the truth and when studied with an open heart it comes to life.
The bible does not contradict itself and God does not changes His standards or principles.
This really is a important subject.
The state of the dead.....
Do the dead really die ... the dead are dead.
Or are the dead alive in another form, or the soul lives on without the body.
Has anyone looked at history? It really helps to understand the origins of these teachings. The first lie that was told to eve.... "You shall not die". Like understanding Christmas and its beginnings you can understand why Christianity and paganism are mixed together for that day.
Ecc 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Eze_18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze_18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
The state of the dead.....
Do the dead really die ... the dead are dead.
Or are the dead alive in another form, or the soul lives on without the body.
Has anyone looked at history? It really helps to understand the origins of these teachings. The first lie that was told to eve.... "You shall not die". Like understanding Christmas and its beginnings you can understand why Christianity and paganism are mixed together for that day.
Ecc 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Eze_18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze_18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
I'm not re-entering this thread at this time. But to answer your question...
Because they deserve the just wrath of God
That, again, is wishful thinking on your part.
I won't be needing luck because I have sound doctrine and believe in the truth.
How is that a gamble? If I am wrong, there is no skin off my back; and if I am right, I have heeded the warnings given to me and there is also no skin off my back
Sound doctrine is important (1 Timothy 4:16, Titus 1:9)...and I would say that it is defined as orthodox teaching.
I will therefore believe in orthodox teaching unless I find that there is no Bible to substantiate it and that there is also Bible that contradicts it.
So, He just wants them to experience the pain of being annihilated?
Take it a step further and you might come to the knowledge of the truth...that He has wrath and justice against sin (Nahum 1:2-3) and His negative emotions concerning sin will exhibit themselves in God pouring out everlasting wrath on those who reject Him and the free gift that He paid so high a price for.
It is true that God isn't willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9)...
However, for those who do not repent now or who never will repent...
God reserves His wrath for them (Nahum 1:2-3).
I don't know if I am the person you meant to respond to. We are in agreement on the subject of eternal justice.
I already said, "They deserve the just wrath of God".
Yes the just wrath of God. He is a JUST God and a lifetime of sin (70 years) does not = eternity of punishment. If the sins of one person are great and the next person not so great but they both suffer eternal punishment that is not fair or just. Knowing my father or mother are in hell burning for ever and ever is not a nice thought to live with for eternal life to come. Justice = death for ever and ever. not suffering pain for ever and ever.
Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
The thing that is in view is the fact that the person who is cast into the lake of fire is the one who does not receive the remedy for a sinful thought pattern and demeanor; and therefore, even after they have been cast into hell for punishment, they will continue to add sin to sin and thus they will be adding to that which deserves punishment in their lives. I can picture it very clearly that many will blaspheme the Lord while they are receiving the beginnings of their punishment and this will serve to add to that which deserves punishment in the realm of sins that they have committed that are yet to be punished.