TONGUES is a precious gift from God

[Oblio]

I've concluded that when one's mind is made up that tongues are not genuine, there's no point me trying to change their mind. They would've spent long hours learning to counter any argument put to them. I don't spend much time thinking about it.
So why would I want to waste my time arguing with people that will probably, at least in their eyes, win the argument, even though I know that they're wrong?
I can't think of a good reason. Perhaps you can. I'm more concerned about what the word says regarding those who have a form of godliness, but deny the power.

 

[CS1]

When I decided to make divine healing as my research dissertation for my M.Div, I went to my favourite Christian second hand book shop and bought up books by every author I could find on divine healing. As a result I compiled a comprehensive collection of books dealing with the good, bad and ugly about divine healing. My research work involved reading through all those books, compiling a bibliography, a literature review, a research report, then a first draft of the completed dissertation. It went to over 100 pages. It involved a comprehensive study of divine healing in Scripture, then through church history, and after that current practice by the range of divine healing ministries, including an analysis of the various results. The dissertation was completed with my conclusions. I also included an analysis of an article by a prominent cessationist author dealing with each point he made concerning the cessation of divine healing at the end of the Apostolic Age.

My conclusion after all my research was that God does heal people today, but it is not on demand, but God is totally sovereign about whom He decides to heal and whom He decides not to heal. But every sick believer should ask God for healing, and then leave it up to Him for the rest. The research study achieve a 95% grade, and it resulted in my book, "The Divine Healing Ministry, Then and Now" which I published through Amazon Kindle and paperback.

The point I am making is that to get the best view of any Christian topic, including tongues, healing, deliverance, etc., is to study the Scriptures, and read every author who wrote about it, including those who wrote in opposition. This is how I gained a comprehensive view of spiritual warfare. I bought and read every author I could find. That way, I gained a good appreciation of what the range of authors thought about it. Then I could come to my own conclusions without becoming unbalanced one way or the other.

I came to my conclusions on the gift of tongues by comparing a standard Cessationist study with actual Scripture and found that Cessationist authors tend to concentrate on selected verses of Scripture, often out of context, and ignore other sections of Scriptures that contradict their view. Also I found that they take a clear statement of Scripture that explains the nature and use of tongues and try to say that the Apostle didn't really mean what he said. It showed me that Cessationist theory is totally unbalanced and one-sided, and really does not fool anyone who takes the time to do comprehensive research through Scripture and written testimony of the many who have experienced the gift and the blessing that it produces.

AGAIN what is healing?

 

[PaulChristensen]

Further to the question regarding the ministry of IAN & JOYE JOHNSON & His Amazing Glory Ministries which you have promised to respond to when you have reviewed it I would like to ask you a more pertinent question touching upon Smith Wigglesworth and a claim made at a prophetic meeting as linked below:

http://catchthefire.com.au/2011/11/...ord-of-australias-mighty-revival-a-must-read/

Both these ministries cite Smith Wigglesworth in some detail and the link herein does so in a rather specific and weighty fashion.

What do you make of this?

My view of prophetic words is that they are not Holy Scripture. A prophetic word may reflect what God may want to happen, and what He plans to take place in the future. Isaiah is a good example of this. One always has to be careful of predictive prophecies. Often a prophetic word may contain a kernel of what the Holy Spirit is saying, but can be intermixed with the person's own desire for the future. The problem with many who revere Smith Wigglesworth as a true man of God who had a unique ministry, is that they receive every word that he says and teaches as equal to Scripture. The reality is that we are dealing with a human person who is just as fallible as the rest of us.

I have read his complete works. He believed that if a person had enough faith, they could achieve wonders. I think that because the Lord gave him a unique ministry of healing and faith, that he believed that everyone should operate at the same level. I don't believe that. We all have different ministries and gifting. I don't believe that Smith Wigglesworth was gifted with a prophetic ministry and this could explain why his prophecy concerning Australia has not been seen to be fulfilled. I don't believe that he was a false prophet as described in Jeremiah or Ezekiel. He was not encouraging people who worship idols that they would be safe and victorious. I believe that he was well intentioned and was encouraging Christians to pray for revival in Australia, and his prophecy sought to encourage Christians that if they prayed earnestly for it, then it would happen.

As we have often seen, something that God might want to happen can be flummoxed by Christians failing to do what God requires for it to happen.

In support of Smith Wigglesworth's ministry. I was privileged to have had fellowship in the 1960s with his pianist who toured with him in the 1920s in New Zealand. I also heard from a couple of other elderly believers who attended his meetings and saw people being healed. They told me that the experienced changed them forever, and 40 years after the events, the events they witnessed were fresh in their minds and hearts.

It is one thing to read about Smith Wigglesworth, for him or against, but it is quite another thing to fellowship with people who were actually there, especially his pianist who fellowshiped with him personally, prayed with him, and was in every New Zealand meeting. There is nothing like eyewitness testimony.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

My view of prophetic words is that they are not Holy Scripture. A prophetic word may reflect what God may want to happen, and what He plans to take place in the future. Isaiah is a good example of this. One always has to be careful of predictive prophecies. Often a prophetic word may contain a kernel of what the Holy Spirit is saying, but can be intermixed with the person's own desire for the future. The problem with many who revere Smith Wigglesworth as a true man of God who had a unique ministry, is that they receive every word that he says and teaches as equal to Scripture. The reality is that we are dealing with a human person who is just as fallible as the rest of us.

I have read his complete works. He believed that if a person had enough faith, they could achieve wonders. I think that because the Lord gave him a unique ministry of healing and faith, that he believed that everyone should operate at the same level. I don't believe that. We all have different ministries and gifting. I don't believe that Smith Wigglesworth was gifted with a prophetic ministry and this could explain why his prophecy concerning Australia has not been seen to be fulfilled. I don't believe that he was a false prophet as described in Jeremiah or Ezekiel. He was not encouraging people who worship idols that they would be safe and victorious. I believe that he was well intentioned and was encouraging Christians to pray for revival in Australia, and his prophecy sought to encourage Christians that if they prayed earnestly for it, then it would happen.

As we have often seen, something that God might want to happen can be flummoxed by Christians failing to do what God requires for it to happen.

In support of Smith Wigglesworth's ministry. I was privileged to have had fellowship in the 1960s with his pianist who toured with him in the 1920s in New Zealand. I also heard from a couple of other elderly believers who attended his meetings and saw people being healed. They told me that the experienced changed them forever, and 40 years after the events, the events they witnessed were fresh in their minds and hearts.

It is one thing to read about Smith Wigglesworth, for him or against, but it is quite another thing to fellowship with people who were actually there, especially his pianist who fellowshiped with him personally, prayed with him, and was in every New Zealand meeting. There is nothing like eyewitness testimony.

Then you would have enjoyed Lester Sumrall, who knew him personally, and was a wonderful Biblical Teacher himself [now with the Lord].

 

[PaulChristensen]

You do not know that. I will ask you one qestion. Your counter part did notanswer. What is Healing ?

Why don't you follow my example and do a comprehensive research study on healing - through Scripture, historical accounts of healing, current practice through the whole range of authors from the start of the 20th Century onwards? Much better than quoting a couple of random verses out of context to try and prove a point.

My own research study might interest you.

 

[PaulChristensen]

Then you would have enjoyed Lester Sumrall, who knew him personally, and was a wonderful Biblical Teacher himself [now with the Lord].

I have enjoyed Lester Sumrall, and have viewed a number of his Youtube video messages as well has having some of his books.

 

[Oblio]

Lester seemed to be quite impressed with Smith! Lol

 

[PaulChristensen]

Why don't you follow my example and do a comprehensive research study on healing - through Scripture, historical accounts of healing, current practice through the whole range of authors from the start of the 20th Century onwards? Much better than quoting a couple of random verses out of context to try and prove a point.

My own research study might interest you.

I attached my research Ebook on the healing ministry, but it doesn't seem to work for me when I clicked on it to test. For those interested, PM me and I will see if attaching the file works there.

 

[Lafftur]

What is Healing ?

Hello CS1

I know you did not ask me this question but, when I read it, so many scriptures suddenly filled my mind and I thought it best to share...

There are so many dynamics to Healing.

When we're sick, we ask "Why am I sick?" and "How do I get well?"

The WHY am I sick? has so many answers....

- For God's Glory

- Sin, because of rebellion to God and Unbelief and Unforgiveness

- Using my own words and speaking negative over myself

- Defiling our body as the Temple of the Holy Spirit

- Putting ourselves under ungodly authority over us

- There's more whys I am sure but this is all I got so far.

The HOW do I get well? question has a few answers...

- Faith is key and is mostly how we receive from God; Faith is supernatural in nature meaning it doesn't come from the physical realm or human reasoning, it comes from the Heavenly realm - from God. Understanding certain knowledge that we absolutely know is TRUE and WILL HAPPEN, Truth is revealed to us and understood from hearing the Word of God.

- God simply has compassion on us;

- Humble ourselves, repent with sorrow over our sin, turn away from our wicked ways and seek God and His Ways;

- Denounce any curses we have ignorantly or foolishly spoken over ourselves;

- Repent for not taking care of our bodies as the Temple of the Holy Spirit and learn to eat right, exercise, get proper sleep, fast and pray, learning to sit still in God's Presence.....waiting for His touch.

I didn't answer the question "WHAT is Healing?......hmmm.....

Healing is...

Life
Blessed
Mercy
Grace
Supernatural
Gift from God
Restoring by God
Reconciled to God
Bitter becomes sweet
Old becomes new
Where there was death, there is now Life

Just some thoughts I'd share! Thanks for asking the question...it made me ponder.

 

[CS1]

Hello CS1

I know you did not ask me this question but, when I read it, so many scriptures suddenly filled my mind and I thought it best to share...

There are so many dynamics to Healing.

When we're sick, we ask "Why am I sick?" and "How do I get well?"

The WHY am I sick? has so many answers....

- For God's Glory

- Sin, because of rebellion to God and Unbelief and Unforgiveness

- Using my own words and speaking negative over myself

- Defiling our body as the Temple of the Holy Spirit

- Putting ourselves under ungodly authority over us

- There's more whys I am sure but this is all I got so far.

The HOW do I get well? question has a few answers...

- Faith is key and is mostly how we receive from God; Faith is supernatural in nature meaning it doesn't come from the physical realm or human reasoning, it comes from the Heavenly realm - from God. Understanding certain knowledge that we absolutely know is TRUE and WILL HAPPEN, Truth is revealed to us and understood from hearing the Word of God.

- God simply has compassion on us;

- Humble ourselves, repent with sorrow over our sin, turn away from our wicked ways and seek God and His Ways;

- Denounce any curses we have ignorantly or foolishly spoken over ourselves;

- Repent for not taking care of our bodies as the Temple of the Holy Spirit and learn to eat right, exercise, get proper sleep, fast and pray, learning to sit still in God's Presence.....waiting for His touch.

I didn't answer the question "WHAT is Healing?......hmmm.....

Healing is...

Life
Blessed
Mercy
Grace
Supernatural
Gift from God
Restoring by God
Reconciled to God
Bitter becomes sweet
Old becomes new
Where there was death, there is now Life

Just some thoughts I'd share! Thanks for asking the question...it made me ponder.

amen

 

[CS1]

amen

Hello CS1

I know you did not ask me this question but, when I read it, so many scriptures suddenly filled my mind, and I thought it best to share...

There are so many dynamics to Healing.

When we're sick, we ask, "Why am I sick?" and "How do I get well?"

The WHY am I sick? has so many answers...

- For God's Glory

- Sin, because of rebellion to God and Unbelief and Unforgiveness

- Using my own words and speaking negatively over myself

- Defiling our body as the Temple of the Holy Spirit

- Putting ourselves under ungodly authority over us

I am sure there's more whys, but this is all I got so far.

Then HOW do I get well? Question has a few answers...

- Faith is critical and is primarily how we receive from God; Faith is supernatural in nature, meaning it doesn't come from the physical realm of human reasoning; it comes from the Heavenly realm - from God. The understanding of certain knowledge that we absolutely know is TRUE and WILL HAPPEN; Truth is revealed to us and understood from hearing the Word of God.

- God simply has compassion on us;

- Humble ourselves, repent with sorrow over our sin, turn away from our wicked ways and seek God and His Ways;

- Denounce any curses we have ignorantly or foolishly spoken over ourselves;

- Repent for not taking care of our bodies as the Temple of the Holy Spirit and learn to eat right, exercise, get proper sleep, fast and pray, learning to sit still in God's Presence.....waiting for His touch.

I didn't answer the question, "WHAT is Healing?......hmmm.....

Healing is...

Life
Blessed
Mercy
Grace
Supernatural
Gift from God
Restoring by God
Reconciled to God
Bitter becomes sweet
Old becomes new
Where there was death, there is now Life

These are just some thoughts I'd share! Thanks for asking the question...it made me ponder.

I ask this qestion is it seems some here do not know what it is. Healing or to be healed is returning to its natural state.

God created the human body to self-heal, like when you break a bone. If we place the body and position it correctly the bone will mend. We are indeed wonderfully made.


God made the body to heal, yet sin will kill the body until we have been glorified by God in the resurrection. Jesus healed many people and the disciples; those people are dead today ( the physical body). They were healed but are dead.

A Miracle is a divine intervention by God using supernatural power seen in nature. Jesus raised from the dead is a Miracle. The woman with an issue of blood was healing. WE call it a miracle because it was immediately. Yet we read some healing happens a few hours later or in the day after. Today some people have to psychoanalyze and use statistics to verify if God really heals today or does miracles.

Then if it is so, well God is not doing it as HE was before or not as much. They say the gifts are no more, healing is no more, miracles can happen but I doubt it. LOL, a bunch of half-baked cakes.

 

[Aidan1]

Of Course, your statement had nothing to do with The testimony of Emma, you have no Biblical refute for what was said about Her miracle. I have not even suggested God heals every sick believer but he can, and I don't think you know healing is Biblical.

I don't think you know the difference between healing and miracle.
You say: it's possible to be a witness to other people in talking and acting as child of God."

it is not possible, it is what we are supposed to do. Also, we are to bring the Kingdom of God to people as Jesus said to Preach it or proclaim it. Meaning we are to demonstrate it to a lost world. Living a good moral life before people and not sharing Jesus is like living having received a gift from God and hoping those who see you live well, will come to know Jesus without you sharing How he saved you. You do not see Jesus doing that, nor did the Apostles. They spoke and prayed and God Confirmed His word through them as HE will do today. How does ONE "act" like a child of God? Please share how your life has been so powerful to a lost world that people see it and have been saved?

To love

I quoted: Mark 16:15-18

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. That is for us today has not stopped.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned. Salvation has not stopped. It is for today

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

You say, " But if we compare the time of Christ on earth or the apostolic time ( beginning of the church) with today we see an difference in the quantity of miracles and healings."

NO, it is not; that is your own personal opinion. If you base the number of Miracles and healings, you read about in the word of God and suggest it is not the same as it was then? Wow, you can see the whole world as it spins? You say you are sure "no serious Christian is denying that God is healing or doing miracles today." Then you deny they are happening, just not at the level that will groom your human intellect.
You can't compare the times of Christ. For that to happen, let's take Germany and have overtaken by Russia FOR FOUR HUNDRED YEARS and remove the Language of Germany and change it to Greek. In addition, have a dark age for 400 years before the coming of Christ in HIS Incarnation.

BUT Faith TRANSENDS time and God is still moved by faith. You would pray to have God Heal if it is His will? Are you not to pray according to HIS will? IF so is it not God's will we are to pray for healing and believe God will?

You keep bringing up a false narrative you are like a half-baked cake. On one hand, God can Heal, then you say "But this means not that he is taking away all difficulties ore sicknesses from us."

What does that even mean? And you say the answer to prayer is that not a Miracle? Emma's life and the healing of her body and coming out of death is only an answer to prayer? IT is NOT a miracle? OR it does not measure up to your standard of one?


1Pet 2:12? Matthew 5:16? 1tim 5:16?
what are you trying to say?

those verses do not suggest we are not to pray for the sick or visit the widows and take care of the orphans? OR at the expense of preaching the Gospel. What are you trying to say ?

Ok, i suppose either i am to stupid to comunicate what I want to say or you dont want understand what I wrote.
Or we are living in two different worlds or we live in two different realitys.
My expieriences in 30 years of beeing a child of God is, that through prayer people are healed and children of God dies on different deseases and where not healed.
In both cases this people were loved from God.
If your expierience is that all sick Christians are healed. I must confess I dont believe you.
In compare to the time when Jesus lived on earth all people who came to him where healed.
If you will claim the same is today. I must say you are not speaking the truth.

 

[Evmur]

To love

Ok, i suppose either i am to stupid to comunicate what I want to say or you dont want understand what I wrote.
Or we are living in two different worlds or we live in two different realitys.
My expieriences in 30 years of beeing a child of God is, that through prayer people are healed and children of God dies on different deseases and where not healed.
In both cases this people were loved from God.
If your expierience is that all sick Christians are healed. I must confess I dont believe you.
In compare to the time when Jesus lived on earth all people who came to him where healed.
If you will claim the same is today. I must say you are not speaking the truth.

the question must be is healing made available to all who ask for it. The answer MUST be yes a thousand times.
If five saved christians ask for healing and 3 are healed and two are not what will you say? will you say the 3 were favourites?, no a thousand times.

But if healing is available for all then we must continue to pray and cry to the Lord for reasons, who does this? no instead folks just abjectly shrug their shoulders and make up some dogpoo doctrine that it is not God's will.

We look in the bible and we see ALL who came to Christ were healed, Jesus came to do the Father's will therefore it is the Father's will that ALL should be healed.

I see that the answer is not in some white suited person on a platform working the people up into some kind of expectancy. The answer is in the local assembly, a local assembly where all the Body parts are functioning together.

Sometimes Jesus gave a word of wisdom or instruction, sometimes He used a discerning of spirits, sometimes an action on His part was required. These gifts are not resident in one person but they could be within the whole assembly. Some healings require a creative miracle as distinct from healing.

But no we just give up ... worse folks think up some doctrine as to why God doesn't always heal.

 

[CS1]

To love

Ok, i suppose either i am to stupid to comunicate what I want to say or you dont want understand what I wrote.
Or we are living in two different worlds or we live in two different realitys.
My expieriences in 30 years of beeing a child of God is, that through prayer people are healed and children of God dies on different deseases and where not healed.
In both cases this people were loved from God.
If your expierience is that all sick Christians are healed. I must confess I dont believe you.
In compare to the time when Jesus lived on earth all people who came to him where healed.
If you will claim the same is today. I must say you are not speaking the truth.

I would never say you are stupid nor do I think that of you. I disagree with your biblical perspective, however, that is your walk, not mine. I am not of the devil nor is the experience I have had with the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Again you keep saying what I have never said which makes you very difficult to take seriously. I never said all or experience is that all sick Christians are healed. YET all Christians can be healed or have experienced healing in their body at some time in their life.

Through the gift of Doctors which God gave them the ability or through prayer which God answered and healed. And I am speaking the truth you are hearing in your bias and saying things I have never said.

 

[CS1]

the question must be is healing made available to all who ask for it. The answer MUST be yes a thousand times.
If five saved christians ask for healing and 3 are healed and two are not what will you say? will you say the 3 were favourites?, no a thousand times.

But if healing is available for all then we must continue to pray and cry to the Lord for reasons, who does this? no instead folks just abjectly shrug their shoulders and make up some dogpoo doctrine that it is not God's will.

We look in the bible and we see ALL who came to Christ were healed, Jesus came to do the Father's will therefore it is the Father's will that ALL should be healed.

I see that the answer is not in some white suited person on a platform working the people up into some kind of expectancy. The answer is in the local assembly, a local assembly where all the Body parts are functioning together.

Sometimes Jesus gave a word of wisdom or instruction, sometimes He used a discerning of spirits, sometimes an action on His part was required. These gifts are not resident in one person but they could be within the whole assembly. Some healings require a creative miracle as distinct from healing.

But no we just give up ... worse folks think up some doctrine as to why God doesn't always heal.

Thank you so much finally.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

My view of prophetic words is that they are not Holy Scripture. A prophetic word may reflect what God may want to happen, and what He plans to take place in the future. Isaiah is a good example of this. One always has to be careful of predictive prophecies. Often a prophetic word may contain a kernel of what the Holy Spirit is saying, but can be intermixed with the person's own desire for the future. The problem with many who revere Smith Wigglesworth as a true man of God who had a unique ministry, is that they receive every word that he says and teaches as equal to Scripture. The reality is that we are dealing with a human person who is just as fallible as the rest of us.

I have read his complete works. He believed that if a person had enough faith, they could achieve wonders. I think that because the Lord gave him a unique ministry of healing and faith, that he believed that everyone should operate at the same level. I don't believe that. We all have different ministries and gifting. I don't believe that Smith Wigglesworth was gifted with a prophetic ministry and this could explain why his prophecy concerning Australia has not been seen to be fulfilled. I don't believe that he was a false prophet as described in Jeremiah or Ezekiel. He was not encouraging people who worship idols that they would be safe and victorious. I believe that he was well intentioned and was encouraging Christians to pray for revival in Australia, and his prophecy sought to encourage Christians that if they prayed earnestly for it, then it would happen.

As we have often seen, something that God might want to happen can be flummoxed by Christians failing to do what God requires for it to happen.

In support of Smith Wigglesworth's ministry. I was privileged to have had fellowship in the 1960s with his pianist who toured with him in the 1920s in New Zealand. I also heard from a couple of other elderly believers who attended his meetings and saw people being healed. They told me that the experienced changed them forever, and 40 years after the events, the events they witnessed were fresh in their minds and hearts.

It is one thing to read about Smith Wigglesworth, for him or against, but it is quite another thing to fellowship with people who were actually there, especially his pianist who fellowshiped with him personally, prayed with him, and was in every New Zealand meeting. There is nothing like eyewitness testimony.

From what I can find there appears to be four principle times that this prophecy by Smith Wigglesworth was reported de factum. The fourth in 1947 in England at the Elim Conference, and that has been stated as a falsehood and I think that this must be so. The first was in Australia in the 1920’s. The man who is called Pr Norm in the article is Norman Armstrong and this is a link to him preaching at the funeral of a friend. Norman went to be with the Lord on November 2011 aged 95 years. The second is David Du Plessis in 1937 who went to be with the Lord in January 1987. The third is claimed by Lester Sumrall as having taken place in the "dark days of World War II". Lester went to be with the Lord in April 1996. So the brother who outlived all of these men was Norman Armstrong. It was Norman Armstrong who is said to have passed the mantle to Daniel Nalliah in 2009.

This is Norman Armstrong just a few months before his passing.

I also historically found a video by David Duplessis that is now removed from the internet so what I could have said on this subject of Smith Wigglesworth’s prophecy must remain hidden in that regard as I can no longer demonstrate the point here. It was removed shortly after I last documented this Smith Wigglesworth prophecy and posted some findings online. That was in 2013.

All of these men were pentecostal believers and all stood on the ground of holding speaking in tongues and interpreting tongues as a force majeure mitigation - that fact being explicitly clear when this prophecy is passed as a mantle - in the end to Daniel Nalliah in 2009.

In 2006 there was a litigant proceeding against Daniel Nalliah that ended as shown in this link.

https://www.becketlaw.org/case/islamic-council-victoria-v-catch-fire-ministries-inc/

The mantle that Norman Armstrong passed to Daniele Nalliah in 2009 eventually turned into a political spectacle and ended with the de registration of the work he was doing as a charity defined in the relevant act and having tax gains associated with it.

Here is Daniel Nalliah in his political hat (as was).

https://riseupaustralia.com.au/01-daniel-nalliah/

And this (below) link is his present standing. It is from this site that I posted the Smith Wiggeslworth link. @#1,348

https://reformationharvestfire.com/biography/

I will resist saying what I would like to say for now because until there is a proper means to do so without causing contention - then I am not free to do so. But it will come.

Your own comment is just fine and I agree with it. What ought to be clear, however, is the NEED to know why such prophecies produce such an effect in men who have otherwise such exemplary walks. These things are by now 100 years old. Long before the present madness and yet the confusion is amply clear in this thread.

The deep problem is not simply end time prophecies it is the very way that the gift of prophecy has been misused. From speaking in tongues to interpretations that exceeded the bound of that gift - to prophetic utterance as a legitimate gift being turned into Prophets and the rise of the Apostles and Prophets as we have it now. That effect is going to be broken.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I attached my research Ebook on the healing ministry, but it doesn't seem to work for me when I clicked on it to test. For those interested, PM me and I will see if attaching the file works there.

It works as a pdf downloadable file. I downloaded it onto an iMac by that means.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

From what I can find there appears to be four principle times that this prophecy by Smith Wigglesworth was reported de factum. The fourth in 1947 in England at the Elim Conference, and that has been stated as a falsehood and I think that this must be so. The first was in Australia in the 1920’s. The man who is called Pr Norm in the article is Norman Armstrong and this is a link to him preaching at the funeral of a friend. Norman went to be with the Lord on November 2011 aged 95 years. The second is David Du Plessis in 1937 who went to be with the Lord in January 1987. The third is claimed by Lester Sumrall as having taken place in the "dark days of World War II". Lester went to be with the Lord in April 1996. So the brother who outlived all of these men was Norman Armstrong. It was Norman Armstrong who is said to have passed the mantle to Daniel Nalliah in 2009.

This is Norman Armstrong just a few months before his passing.

I also historically found a video by David Duplessis that is now removed from the internet so what I could have said on this subject of Smith Wigglesworth’s prophecy must remain hidden in that regard as I can no longer demonstrate the point here. It was removed shortly after I last documented this Smith Wigglesworth prophecy and posted some findings online. That was in 2013.

All of these men were pentecostal believers and all stood on the ground of holding speaking in tongues and interpreting tongues as a force majeure mitigation - that fact being explicitly clear when this prophecy is passed as a mantle - in the end to Daniel Nalliah in 2009.

In 2006 there was a litigant proceeding against Daniel Nalliah that ended as shown in this link.

https://www.becketlaw.org/case/islamic-council-victoria-v-catch-fire-ministries-inc/

The mantle that Norman Armstrong passed to Daniele Nalliah in 2009 eventually turned into a political spectacle and ended with the de registration of the work he was doing as a charity defined in the relevant act and having tax gains associated with it.

Here is Daniel Nalliah in his political hat (as was).

https://riseupaustralia.com.au/01-daniel-nalliah/

And this (below) link is his present standing. It is from this site that I posted the Smith Wiggeslworth link. @#1,348

https://reformationharvestfire.com/biography/

I will resist saying what I would like to say for now because until there is a proper means to do so without causing contention - then I am not free to do so. But it will come.

Your own comment is just fine and I agree with it. What ought to be clear, however, is the NEED to know why such prophecies produce such an effect in men who have otherwise such exemplary walks. These things are by now 100 years old. Long before the present madness and yet the confusion is amply clear in this thread.

The deep problem is not simply end time prophecies it is the very way that the gift of prophecy has been misused. From speaking in tongues to interpretations that exceeded the bound of that gift - to prophetic utterance as a legitimate gift being turned into Prophets and the rise of the Apostles and Prophets as we have it now. That effect is going to be broken.

Yeah, according to Lester Sumrall, he was in the UK as a young evangelist and wanted to meet this well known Smith Wigglesworth. Sumrall never heard Wigglesworth preach in person and by the time he met wigglesworth, Smith had been retired. But Sumrall said he was led to find Wigglesworth home and speak to him. Evidently they met at Smith's home a few more times before Sumrall headed back to the States. It was at the last visit that Wigglesworth Prophesied to Sumrall that an Awakening and Newer things were to come and Sumrall's generation would usher that Movement in and be in that Movement until Sumrall's own death.

I remember going to Sumralls Church a few times and one of his last Messages he preached was this story about him meeting Wigglesworth. It was at this meeting that Sumrall said the Torch will be passed and a Newer Movement of God would take place. That was almost 30 years ago.

From my own observation, it does seem we do see and witness a refreshing Movement by God about every 30/40 years or so. Which is remarkable when we consider what the number 30/40 means in the Hebrew Language.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Yeah, according to Lester Sumrall, he was in the UK as a young evangelist and wanted to meet this well known Smith Wigglesworth. Sumrall never heard Wigglesworth preach in person and by the time he met wigglesworth, Smith had been retired. But Sumrall said he was led to find Wigglesworth home and speak to him. Evidently they met at Smith's home a few more times before Sumrall headed back to the States. It was at the last visit that Wigglesworth Prophesied to Sumrall that an Awakening and Newer things were to come and Sumrall's generation would usher that Movement in and be in that Movement until Sumrall's own death.

I remember going to Sumralls Church a few times and one of his last Messages he preached was this story about him meeting Wigglesworth. It was at this meeting that Sumrall said the Torch will be passed and a Newer Movement of God would take place. That was almost 30 years ago.

From my own observation, it does seem we do see and witness a refreshing Movement by God about every 30/40 years or so. Which is remarkable when we consider what the number 30/40 means in the Hebrew Language.

This account comes from Lester Sumralls book Pioneers of Faith. Sumrall relates how he met Smith Wigglesworth during the dark days of World War II and gives the following account:

"Shutting his eyes again, he said, I see the greatest revival in the history of mankind coming to Planet earth, maybe as never before. And I see every form of disease healed. I see whole hospitals emptied with no one there. Even the doctors are running down the streets shouting. He told me that there would be untold numbers of uncountable multitudes that would be saved. No man will say so many, so many, because nobody will be able to count those who come to Jesus. No disease will be able to stand before Gods people It will be a worldwide situation, not local, he said, a worldwide thrust of Gods power and Gods anointing upon mankind. Then he opened his eyes and looked at me and said, I will not see it, but you shall see it. The Lord says that I must go on to my reward, but that you will see the mighty works that He will do upon the earth in the last days. The idea that I would get to see this revival was almost overwhelming. And in the last decade or so, I believe we have seen this revival begin to sweep the earth. We have seen amazing moves of God in Africa Recently, I was in China and met with the underground church. I was told there are at least forty-five million Full Gospel Christians in China. I discovered a depth of prayer and integrity there that I have not felt anywhere else in the world So I believe we are seeing Wigglesworths prophecy begin to be fulfilled. We are seeing the first stages of it. Dear friends, let us devote ourselves to prayer and fasting and practical steps of obedience so that if possible, we could be included by God as co-workers in the great revival move of the Spirit that Smith Wigglesworth saw in that vision."

What is interesting to myself in this account is the reference to China as a personal comment by Lester Sumrall.

What is clear is that this vision is different to the earlier one reported by Norman Armstrong on Sunday the 16th of Oct 2011 recollecting his own childhood experience of meeting Smith Wigglesworth in his own home in the early 20th century and receiving the prophecy about Australia as the origin of that last end time revival.

I was only a very young boy when my Dad told me one day that a man called Smith Wigglesworth was coming to minister in our home, and that he was a mighty man of God. We were all very excited. The day came, and our house was packed out with people. I wanted to get a good look at him and the only place was the toilet seat, so I went in there to watch him preach.

Suddenly, Smith stopped preaching and told me (Pr Norm) to come out of the toilet. Then he laid hands on me and started prophesying over me.” He said, “Australia you have been chosen by God for a great move of the Holy Spirit. This move of God will be the greatest move of God ever known in mankind’s history and will start towards the end of the 20th century and move into the 21st century. This move of God will start a great revival in Australia, spread throughout the whole world and usher in the second coming of Jesus. This will be the final revival before the coming of the Lord.

God will rise up a man in Australia who will lead this move of God under the anointing of the Holy Spirit. This man will bow down to no one other than God. He will have tremendous favour in the nation of Australia.

My son, my (Smith Wigglesworth) eyes will not see this man, but you (Pr Norm Armstrong) will meet this man before you go to be with the Lord. Now I will lay hands on you and pass on the mantle of God for this great mission. When you see this man place your hands on him and prepare him for this mission and pass on this mantle.”

It was shortly after this that Norman Armstrong went to be with the Lord [November 11th 2011] (Not the date on the video I posted) as I mistakenly stated above the video itself.

These two different accounts are separated by nearly 20 years in their spoken form - and yet they clearly contradict one another in one significant way. Personally for reasons I can't explain here - I would be inclined to take more note of the Lester Sumrall account to get any sense of validity.

 

[KelbyofGod]

When I decided to make divine healing as my research dissertation for my M.Div, I went to my favourite Christian second hand book shop and bought up books by every author I could find on divine healing. As a result I compiled a comprehensive collection of books dealing with the good, bad and ugly about divine healing. My research work involved reading through all those books, compiling a bibliography, a literature review, a research report, then a first draft of the completed dissertation. It went to over 100 pages. It involved a comprehensive study of divine healing in Scripture, then through church history, and after that current practice by the range of divine healing ministries, including an analysis of the various results. The dissertation was completed with my conclusions. I also included an analysis of an article by a prominent cessationist author dealing with each point he made concerning the cessation of divine healing at the end of the Apostolic Age.

My conclusion after all my research was that God does heal people today, but it is not on demand, but God is totally sovereign about whom He decides to heal and whom He decides not to heal. But every sick believer should ask God for healing, and then leave it up to Him for the rest. The research study achieve a 95% grade, and it resulted in my book, "The Divine Healing Ministry, Then and Now" which I published through Amazon Kindle and paperback.

The point I am making is that to get the best view of any Christian topic, including tongues, healing, deliverance, etc., is to study the Scriptures, and read every author who wrote about it, including those who wrote in opposition. This is how I gained a comprehensive view of spiritual warfare. I bought and read every author I could find. That way, I gained a good appreciation of what the range of authors thought about it. Then I could come to my own conclusions without becoming unbalanced one way or the other.

I came to my conclusions on the gift of tongues by comparing a standard Cessationist study with actual Scripture and found that Cessationist authors tend to concentrate on selected verses of Scripture, often out of context, and ignore other sections of Scriptures that contradict their view. Also I found that they take a clear statement of Scripture that explains the nature and use of tongues and try to say that the Apostle didn't really mean what he said. It showed me that Cessationist theory is totally unbalanced and one-sided, and really does not fool anyone who takes the time to do comprehensive research through Scripture and written testimony of the many who have experienced the gift and the blessing that it produces.

Hi Paul,
This isn't a "Hey, you shouldn't have done all that research" because I consider it admirable when someone has researched something more than I have. But I, being someone somewhat removed from the normal courses of study (by situation) and from high concentrations of natural educational resources (by location), might suggest another way to research such a topic.

Specifically, it is to try putting to use any theories we might have developed when reading the bible...see which ones work... and keep modifying (through prayer) our doctrines and practices until we have it functioning well and consistently.

That method is available to ANYONE, whether they have the ability to do extensive study (in the natural) or not.

Does that method work? Yes, I can say (by experience) that it does. But it does take a significant amount of effort and dilligence. And it can yield results that are unexpected... such as criticism and fear from those nearby... even those who received the miraculous.

You might think that someone who was brought from the brink of death against all medical expectation... or someone who was 100% healed of cancer after being prayed for (before being taken to the scheduled surgery to REMOVE HER JAW, they opened her up and found ZERO remaining cancer), you'd THINK those people would turn from their 'normal' lives and serve God fervently. But it doesn't often work that way... not even in the scriptures... per Luke 17:17-18, Matt. 11:20-24, etc.

BUT, lest anyone think I'm speaking of myself with THOSE examples, I'm generally not. I've seen healings at my hands and prayers, but that's not the area I tested to the point of "functioning well AND consistently"... even though God was absolutely consistent on upholding HIS end. I (repeat "I") wasn't diligent in seeking God to the point of seeing healings confidently manifest each time I was presented the opportunity. At least I haven't done that YET. For one reason, I knew that other people's doubts, desires, biases and unbeliefs can be a hinderance and I wasn't sure I how to overcome that. But I've seen others being WAY more successful in that area than I would have thought possible, so I know it's mostly my fault for putting limits on God through my unbelief.

I just posted those examples to show to everyone "HEY, God still works! Please don't discount him just because pastors in the pulpits don't know how to get the word of God to function...or they aren't quick to say the word of God always works lest someone try it, not see immediate success, and call the pastor a fraud rather than admit perhaps they didn't have perfect faith... or made some other mistake."

Sorry for the length.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby