Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

[LactoseIntolerant]

"
7. Then I wrote a memorial of their prayer and supplication, for their spirits, for everything which they had done, and for the subject of their entreaty, that they might obtain remission and rest.

8. Proceeding on, I continued over the waters of Danbadan, which is on the right to the west of Armon, reading the memorial of their prayer, until I fell asleep.

9. And behold a dream came to me, and visions appeared above me. I fell down and saw a vision of punishment, that I might relate it to the sons of heaven, and reprove them. "
https://book-ofenoch.com/chapter-13/

Would you agree that the author did not die?

I am assuming this is the Enoch book with the giants and 3000 cubit tall stuff. Or you got the ethiopian one.
Anyways, if so, do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah or Enoch? Stop contaminating the Scriptures, and no I will not discuss the merits of a book that says Enoch is the messiah. :-(

A.T. Robertson? never got the memo...Oh I see you sent it to Duckybill in a later post. Tricky.
Coevality of eternal punishment and eternal life. I will go up one more on you and your A.T Robertson (he sounds like a calvinist- still reseaching). Eternal punishment and eternal life come from one and the same source.
Eternity only comes from God. Controversial?
Eternity of punishment and life has the same source, God. Controversial?
Life - God is with us. Punishment - God is not with us. Controversial?
Life is the Gift of Tree of Life. Punishment is absence of Tree of Life, surely one will die? Controversial?

Both are eternal as they are from God. The second death is final. No more energies from God. No more attention given to nothing,

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

Well, I disagree that most Christians think God is a concept. Every Christian I know believes God is a person.

It is not so much as the self attestations as how much the love Jesus and God , but how they speak of their doctrines. The logic of their doctrines imply thing about the Character of God. Instead of pausing and be mindful of the Person's Feelings, they contort the His Very Words to defend their logic of the world. Defending the doctrine in honour of their synagogue of worldly folk at the cost of insulting God.
That is why the admonishment is "Fear God", as they have no love/respect of Him.

 

[justbyfaith]

When compared to all scripture dealing with the unsaved, Rev.20:10 shows us that the devil shares the same fate as unrepentant mankind, which is torment for the sins he committed ""his entire life" <--- this "forever", not for eternity.

It is torment day and night for ever and ever...and that means eternity...not just the equivalent of a lifetime.

 

[posthuman]

So you are saying there are 2 hells? The first death is hell 1 and second death is hell 2 forever and ever.

you know there is death, and a second death. why would it be called the second death if it is identical to the first death?
then it would just be 'death' twice.
there are two Adams, and they are not identical. one is a foreshadow of the others - and is not Adam found in Christ? as he that is in Christ will be glorified in Christ, so death will be brought to ruin in the second death.

 

[TheLearner]

Revelation 21:1, 4
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

In the new heaven and new earth, after God wipes the tears away there will be no more tears thereafter. Nor will there be death, sorrow, or pain. This doesn’t just apply to the state of the righteous, but all of creation will be renewed.

Peter says that in the New Heavens and New Earth, only 100% righteousness will exist.

2 Peter 3:13
13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

There won’t be hordes of unrepentant sinners crying in pain, completely engulfed in flames, eternally blaspheming the name of God day and night without rest. Your eternal torment doctrine of men doesn’t stand up to the test of biblical scrutiny.

Those who are unrighteous will be put to death in the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:15, Rev. 21:8)

I hope that answers your question. Please feel free to chat me any time. God bless.

At your service,
Brother Runningman

We both agree God will wipe away our tears. So, Why are we crying?

 

[TheLearner]

The righteous and the unrighteousness both die physical deaths. I assure you that when the Bible says the righteous will live forever it isn’t a reference to never succumbing to the first death. Many of the verses I showed you speak to spiritual death and spiritual life. There’s certainly a difference dear Learner and I’m a bit concerned that you seem unable to see this. I want to let you know that you’re most likely partially blinded still. I don’t think you want to be blind, I recommend praying to God for help.

What is the DNA difference of goats and sheep?

Both are raised in a general resurrection.

 

[TheLearner]

Torment without end isn't Gods doing.


The unsaved are tormented forever, but the "forever" being referred to pertains to the sins they committed for their entire lives, not eternity. Forever in the sense of the beginning of a sinful life until the end of it.

Matthew 25:46 says it is. And, why bother torture in the grave?

 

[TheLearner]

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live:....Eze.33:11

Gods purpose in suffering is so sinners repent. There is no Godly reason to allow suffering without end.

Wow, you just made the case of purgatory.

 

[TheLearner]

Yes, because "sleep" means the body is inactive.

When I sleep my mind is very active and I have been know to kill intruders in my sleep.

 

[TheLearner]

Start at post 801

 

[Runningman]

What is the DNA difference of goats and sheep?

Both are raised in a general resurrection.

I guess you are just asking what the difference is between sheep and goats? I feel like I am oversimplifying that, though. What do you mean by DNA?

 

[Duckybill]

Our Lord didn't tell the story of the rich man and Lazarus for the purpose teaching about the afterlife.

What? lol
The rich man died. But he was still alive. That isn't the afterlife?

But if we look at it from the angle of torment after death, all the elements contained in it are no different from the torment the unsaved will experience at the judgement seat of Christ., the GWTJ, his appearin, etc. They're all the same.

You are totally evading what Jesus said about "everlasting fire".

 

[Duckybill]

From my perspective I didn’t evade anything. You know, this is a message board and you don’t really know whoever you happen to be talking to. Whatever is going on in your mind other people won’t necessarily understand. Try to not assume the worst of people and have a little more grace and patience.

Do you think Jesus will have patience on you for calling Him a liar and hellmonger?
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Duckybill]

Your logic escapes me. I think your rage is affecting your reading skills.
That is what happens when hell settles in ones brain. Thinking like a torturer gets you in a torture mindset. Cleanse it while you still can.

Is your mouth foaming?

Your comment is meant for Jesus. I quoted Him.

 

[Absolutely]

If Christians would commune with the Holy Spirit and also examine all scripture dealing with this subject, they would know the unsaved will be tormented by the sins they've committed and that torment will be temporary, ending with the life of the unrepentant.

Verse????

 

[Absolutely]

You've made that point before, thank you. What you need to do is focus on what is a way more important issue at hand:

• that making the Rich Man and Lazarus a literal story introduces a host of irreconcilable Biblical contradictions which must be ignored in order to continue to make the passage support Immortal Soul/Eternal Torment doctrine, or,...
• we must accept the passage for what it is: a parable in which things happen which cannot and do not happen in real experience

"""we must accept the passage for what it is: a parable in which things happen which cannot and do not happen in real experience"""

Are there other such meaningless "parables"?

 

[Absolutely]

I prefer to think of it as a simple yet clear illustration of how a Soul comes into existence and why it goes out of existence...a Soul can no longer exist once the Spirit returns to God and the Body to dust any more than light can continue to shine once the current is removed from the bulb.

The soul is the mind,will, and emotions.

It is clear those spirits in heaven and hell have all that.

 

[Absolutely]

Can the soul exist without a body?

Yes

 

[Absolutely]

Hebrews 2:14 says the devil will be destroyed.



The KJV doesn’t use they.

Jesus said"DESTROY this temple and in 3 days i will raise it up"

Jesus kept on " existing" in death.

 

[Absolutely]

I didn’t write the Bible, but resurrection is a thing in the Bible. Apparently it’s possible to be destroyed, be resurrected, then be destroyed again permanently or with everlasting effect. Everlasting destruction is the second death.



This says only the devil is tormented day and night for ever.

Revelation 20:10
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

As always, we must carefully read the scripture, calmly and openly, to make sure we’re not seeing ghosts. Often times, when we get a belief in our mind about what we want to see, we just see it. Try to resist that.

As always, we must weigh the full counsel of the scriptures. As you will see below, the devil will be destroyed, not tormented forever.

Hebrews 2:14
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Now I strongly encourage you to do a scriptural study of how the word forever is used in the Bible. Sometimes forever is eternal, but other times it isn’t. The verses I showed you above is one of those instances of forever not being forever.

Mark 9
43: .....it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.



(That pretty much destroys some doctrine that is reframing verses).