Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!
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I quote Jesus and you call me a hellmonger, which is really meant for Jesus.
Mark 9:43 (NKJV)
43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched--
You're desperate and now LYING.
You called me a moron. Do you know what synonym means?
Jesus did speak plainly. Is that why you're upset? The rich man died but was still alive in the fire "being in torments".
"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"
Death never means "cease to exist" in the Bible.
Matt 3:11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear(a): he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire(b): 12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.[/QUOTE]
"Unquenchable" indeed!
Nothing you just stated denies the "everlasting fire" whatsoever. The eternal Hell fire will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.
Mark 9:43 (NKJV)
43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched--
You're desperate and now LYING.
You called me a moron. Do you know what synonym means?
Jesus did speak plainly. Is that why you're upset? The rich man died but was still alive in the fire "being in torments".
"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"
Death never means "cease to exist" in the Bible.
Matt 3:11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear(a): he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire(b): 12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.[/QUOTE]
"Unquenchable" indeed!
Nothing you just stated denies the "everlasting fire" whatsoever. The eternal Hell fire will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.
I strongly believe hell it is relic of our pagan past. Why they do not reason through their sin (Isa 1:18) I do not know.
Have faith brother. Babylon will fall. God is Love and all things eternal come from Him. That includes death.. I mean the second death.
Have faith brother. Babylon will fall. God is Love and all things eternal come from Him. That includes death.. I mean the second death.
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1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 4:7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
God sends His Only Begotten Son to redeem our sins with his death. That is all I need to know to follow Christ. Now some peddler comes along says it is fear of hell which drives me. I can understand your hatred of me. But tell me can you not see you insult Jesus and God? Do I need a fire on my buttocks to love my God? Your lack of grace as evident, as with most hellmongers.
When did I call you a moron, post.
I am not upset or angry. Atheist speak as you do and deny God, the All Loving God. As they do it in mockery, you do it ... for kicks, pride, one-upmanship...you pick. The passage is a parable.
Are we arguing Shroedinger's cat? How many verses will you contort with your hell doctrine? There is One Immortal Soul. We are not It. Do you know the rephaim? Do you know sheol? Oh, I forgot you are a hell expert. Why are there more mysteries in the bible concerning this stuff?
Yes, the eternal fire is death when the God forgets you forever and ever. God is the eternal in all your eternals. So fear God not your pagan hell.
Your venom is showing.
You're calling me a "peddler" and "hellmonger" because I quote Jesus. Good luck on Judgment Day! I don't hate you. Stop lying!
Perhaps it was someone else.
Do you know what will happen to "all liars"?
You have ZERO proof. Abraham, Moses and Lazarus are LITERAL Biblical people.
"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"
Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell
Believing Jesus is "venom"?
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Perhaps it was someone else.
Do you know what will happen to "all liars"?
You have ZERO proof. Abraham, Moses and Lazarus are LITERAL Biblical people.
"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"
Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell
Believing Jesus is "venom"?
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
I didn’t write the Bible, but resurrection is a thing in the Bible. Apparently it’s possible to be destroyed, be resurrected, then be destroyed again permanently or with everlasting effect. Everlasting destruction is the second death.
This says only the devil is tormented day and night for ever.
Revelation 20:10
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
As always, we must carefully read the scripture, calmly and openly, to make sure we’re not seeing ghosts. Often times, when we get a belief in our mind about what we want to see, we just see it. Try to resist that.
As always, we must weigh the full counsel of the scriptures. As you will see below, the devil will be destroyed, not tormented forever.
Hebrews 2:14
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Now I strongly encourage you to do a scriptural study of how the word forever is used in the Bible. Sometimes forever is eternal, but other times it isn’t. The verses I showed you above is one of those instances of forever not being forever.
This says only the devil is tormented day and night for ever.
Revelation 20:10
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
As always, we must carefully read the scripture, calmly and openly, to make sure we’re not seeing ghosts. Often times, when we get a belief in our mind about what we want to see, we just see it. Try to resist that.
As always, we must weigh the full counsel of the scriptures. As you will see below, the devil will be destroyed, not tormented forever.
Hebrews 2:14
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Now I strongly encourage you to do a scriptural study of how the word forever is used in the Bible. Sometimes forever is eternal, but other times it isn’t. The verses I showed you above is one of those instances of forever not being forever.
No it doesn't!
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
It does not say the Devil will be destroyed! Please stop making stuff up!
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
It does not say the Devil will be destroyed! Please stop making stuff up!
I don’t see the word “they” anywhere there in the Greek. The KJV translators didn’t use “they” meaning “they” is possibly a later addition, but I’m not sure yet. In any case, forever isn’t literally forever in Rev. 20:10 and there’s plenty of evidence for that that I might go into tomorrow.
Hebrews 2:14 says the devil will be destroyed. Please read it again.
Hebrews 2:14
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Hebrews 2:14 says the devil will be destroyed. Please read it again.
Hebrews 2:14
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Nearly every English translation says you're wrong.
It does not say the Devil will "cease to exist".
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
It does not say the Devil will "cease to exist".
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
What would be the MOST important issue at hand is. "What lesson does the Parable Teach?"
You say that it must be accepted that it is a parable. OK is that the lesson? "It is a parable" and we all walk away with nothing but "it is a parable?" Not to be taken literal. That is not the lesson and everyone knows that even SDA members.
So what is the lesson or how do you interpret it, so that your explanation (not being literal) communicates what Jesus wanted us to learn (but not a literal explanation)? I am trying to work with you here.
And your answer is to explain the parable as an allegory. ( as dumb as that is for those educated in hebrew literature) I will attempt to follow that reasoning.. let's see if I am following you and your SDA friends.
1) Allegorical meaning = The Rich man is not literal but means the unbelieving Jews / Pharisees that reject mercy and don't like it when gentiles follow Jesus and repent.
2) Allegorical meaning = The beggar is not literal but means the believing gentiles that believe in Jesus and repent ant that the Pharisees despised.
3) Allegorical meaning = The bosom of Abraham is not literal but means the blessings that the repentant believing gentiles will inherit in place of what would have gone to the Pharisees but they miss out.
4) Allegorical meaning = The torment, thirst, flames is not literal but ......(it is just a parable?) You have no allegorical meaning for the torment and flames?
You give one to everything else even the corresponding blessings of the allegorical beggar/believing gentiles. buy you assigned no allegorical meaning to the torments.? In order to complete this parable turned into an allegory theory of yours wouldn't you HAVE to complete it with something like.
5) Allegorical meaning = The torments are not literal but are nonexistance? Does it make sense that Jesus would tell you an allegory where the torment and flames were an allegory for no conscience, not feeling, no pain.
You are insisting that the Pain is an allegory for No Pain. And that is just dumb. And you know it. Give up this SDA nonsense and come home before it is too late.
You say that it must be accepted that it is a parable. OK is that the lesson? "It is a parable" and we all walk away with nothing but "it is a parable?" Not to be taken literal. That is not the lesson and everyone knows that even SDA members.
So what is the lesson or how do you interpret it, so that your explanation (not being literal) communicates what Jesus wanted us to learn (but not a literal explanation)? I am trying to work with you here.
And your answer is to explain the parable as an allegory. (
as dumb as that is for those educated in hebrew literature) I will attempt to follow that reasoning.. let's see if I am following you and your SDA friends.1) Allegorical meaning = The Rich man is not literal but means the unbelieving Jews / Pharisees that reject mercy and don't like it when gentiles follow Jesus and repent.
2) Allegorical meaning = The beggar is not literal but means the believing gentiles that believe in Jesus and repent ant that the Pharisees despised.
3) Allegorical meaning = The bosom of Abraham is not literal but means the blessings that the repentant believing gentiles will inherit in place of what would have gone to the Pharisees but they miss out.
4) Allegorical meaning = The torment, thirst, flames is not literal but ......(it is just a parable?) You have no allegorical meaning for the torment and flames?
You give one to everything else even the corresponding blessings of the allegorical beggar/believing gentiles. buy you assigned no allegorical meaning to the torments.? In order to complete this parable turned into an allegory theory of yours wouldn't you HAVE to complete it with something like.
5) Allegorical meaning = The torments are not literal but are nonexistance? Does it make sense that Jesus would tell you an allegory where the torment and flames were an allegory for no conscience, not feeling, no pain.
You are insisting that the Pain is an allegory for No Pain. And that is just dumb. And you know it. Give up this SDA nonsense and come home before it is too late.