The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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kleronomos said:
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
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"that 'A CERTAIN ONE [G5100 - tis]' not deceive you" (because MANY will come in My name saying...; but the "MANY" who come are not the "CERTAIN ONE [G5100; Matt24:4 / Mk13:5]" that Jesus is explicitly WARNING OF IN PARTICULAR here! [i.e. the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (@ the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL") / FIRST SEAL rider on the white horse in Rev6:2 [aka "the man of sin" / AC], which "kicks off" the specific, LIMITED, future "7 yr period"])

--the "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / parousia" of the "man of sin" (IN HIS TIME), 2Th2:9a, etc
 
FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said:
1 Cor 15:23
2 Thess 2:1

Because the bible teaches there is just a single resurrection of the saved.

Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15.

Since these verses have been quoted many times on this thread, your claims are nothing but lies. Obviously.

And you haven't even tried to explain what ANY of these verses teach, other than what I believe they teach.

Please prove this claim with Scripture.


How does this equal receiving a glorified body? It doesn't. And since Jesus is THE "firstfruits", which is defined in Acts 26:23 as being the FIRST to be resurrected (all in spite of the many people brought back to life from the OT through Jesus' earthly ministry), NO ONE gets a glorified body BEFORE Jesus did. No one.


The obvious problem with pretribbers is trying to force some agricultural notion with the resurrection. Paul made no such link.

In 1 Cor 15:23, he used "firstfruits" to indicate that Jesus' resurrection was the "first production" of the resurrection., meaning Jesus was the FIRST to receive a glorified body. And in that verse, he very clearly said that all believers will receive their glorified bodies "when He comes". It really couldn't be any more clear.

But you guys go off the rails and come up with this 3 part resurrection, parallel to a harvest. No where in the Bible is the resurrection compared or equated with a harvest.

All verses regarding the resurrection of believers is in the SINGULAR, so believe it.


Resurrection ain't no harvest. That's just presumption.
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Absolutely said:
The patriarchs were seen walking the streets of Jerusalem.
As in "resurrected"

Fg quote;
"""Please prove this claim with Scripture"""

That is a little tedious. (so basic) But here it is.
Mat 27
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

It is an entire study.
It involves the rich man/ lazarurus
"Took captivity captive"
"Preached to the prisoners in paradise"
"Firstfruits"
And others.
 
John146 said:
This is the time of Jacob's trouble. They must endure to the end.
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Yeah, I knew that his big long post in which he also provided the definition of "Jacob" was not actually [behind all that] defining "Jacob" in the way that you and I do / according to how Scripture itself does.


He thinks "grafted in" (Rom11) means, "INTO Jacob [/BECOMING Jacob]".

(AS THOUGH the "OLIVE TREE" is IDENTIFIED as "Jacob".)

Not.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
So, this pretrib rapture is the "Second Coming", huh? Just pure sheer presumption.

Jesus comes to earth twice. The First Advent was as a baby and suffering servant. The Second Advent will be as King of kings, and Lord of lords.


Summary verse only.

[QUORTE]He comes in rev 19 on horses WITH the saints.
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This is the Second Advent.


No verse yet has refuted what I have been saying.


That is the Second Advent. You've got 3 or 4 Advents going on. Sheer presumption.


Could you please quote verses that prove a pretrib rapture/resurrecton? I still haven't seen any.

What I seen so far is just presumption from "harvest".[/QUOTE]
"""No verse yet has refuted what I have been saying."""
You skip them and never look at them.
You have no claim in that regard.

You don't know any of the pretrib verses or care to look at them.

We see you guys telling us what we believe. It is way off.
Why?
Because you skip all those verses and then just ascribe whatever is handy to your assumptions.
 
kleronomos said:
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain we wshall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
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The dead rise first than we which are alive

Mean there are Christian alive till second coming, it mean post trib
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
So, this pretrib rapture is the "Second Coming", huh? Just pure sheer presumption.

Jesus comes to earth twice. The First Advent was as a baby and suffering servant. The Second Advent will be as King of kings, and Lord of lords.


Summary verse only.

[QUORTE]He comes in rev 19 on horses WITH the saints.
Click to expand...
This is the Second Advent.


No verse yet has refuted what I have been saying.


That is the Second Advent. You've got 3 or 4 Advents going on. Sheer presumption.


Could you please quote verses that prove a pretrib rapture/resurrecton? I still haven't seen any.

What I seen so far is just presumption from "harvest".[/QUOTE]

"""Jesus comes to earth twice. The First Advent was as a baby and suffering servant. The Second Advent will be as King of kings, and Lord of lords."""

Which gains traction only on your circles via omission.

Rev 14:14 gets skipped via hyper generalization.
You only fool yourselves by reframing it.
 
kleronomos said:
PLEASE, OH PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE THE SCRIPTURES TEACH THAT THOSE GRAFTED INTO AND BECOME THE SEED OF ABRAHAM FELLOW HEIRS AND PARTAKERS OF THE PROMISES OF GOD AKA JACOB, WON'T BE AROUND.
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It's been shown to you by many. You just have a different view of what the scriptures are teaching.
 
Heaven_Bound said:
And still, You can't show me Verses where Jesus said, I come back after Tribulation, but it is in multiple phases and one includes before Tribulation!

So, you are not just OMITTING WHAT CHRIST SAID, but adding a complete new dialogue to what He said!
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Huh???
We both believe he returns postrib.

You maybe need to redo your post
 
Jackson123 said:
I think you have a problem with reading. What verse in 2 tes 2 say pre trib tell me
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Just read it and come to your own conclusion.
You are not at all interested in what it says outside of postrib rapture viewpoint...( even though i can show you more than one "coming")
And the fact there are NO VERSES POINTING TO a postrib rapture.
 
Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

SOME OF THE BRANCHES BROKEN OFF

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

SOME OF THE GENTILES GRAFTED IN

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off,

IF SOME OF JACOB BE BROKEN OFF

and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them,


Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


AND THE GENTILES GRAFTED INTO JACOB BECOMING HEIRS AND PARTAKERS WITH JACOB

and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

THE GENTILES BECOME PARTAKERS AKA JACOB

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

DON'T EVER THINK WE ARE DIFFERENT OR SEPARATE OR BETTER THAN JACOB

YOU ARE JACOB/ISRAEL

WHO IS GODS INHERITANCE? ISRAEL.



Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

The gentiles become the seed of Abraham, the circumcision is of the heart

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

DOES IT SOUND LIKE PRE TRIB IS IN ANYWAY BEING THOUGHT OF FOR THOSE GRAFTED IN WITH THOSE TO WHOM THE PROMISES WERE GIVEN? OR DOES IT SOUND LIKE THEY HAVE BECOME FELLOW HEIRS?

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness,

IF THOU CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS


OTHERWISE THOU SHALT BE CUT OFF

WHEN JESUS WAS GIVING A RUN DOWN ON HOW THE 'CHURCH' WAS DOING DID IT SOUND MORE LIKE A BODY TO BE TAKEN TO HEAVEN BEFORE THE WORK AT HAND WAS COMPLETED OR DID IT SOUND LIKE MORE LIKE A BODY TO BE CUT OFF?

WHAT WERE SOME OF THE DESCRIPTIONS OF THE CHURCH AND HOW HE MIGHT TAKE CARE OF IT?

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

AND WHO ARE THE HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE? ABRAHAMS SEED - ISAAC AND JACOB/ISRAEL

IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN YOU ARE JACOB - GET READY FOR JACOBS TRIBULATION


Galatians 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.



Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Galatians 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

"THE CHURCH' IS JACOB the seed of Abraham




Galatians 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

Galatians 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
 
Heaven_Bound said:
But You believe there are Phases to His One Second Coming!
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Read rev 14:14.

It is neither the rapture or the second coming

Very disingenuous of postribs to reframe rev 14:14

What do you guys do with it???
Pssssst...you must reframe it or jettison your deal.

It is the final nail in postribber doctrines coffin.

Decisively refutes it.
It CANNOT work in your model.
Must be reframed

....AND NO RED FLAGS ABOUT IT????
SMH
 
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