Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

a. Justification equals imputed righteousness
b. Faith is counted for righteousness (imputed righteousness) equals justified through faith.

Again:

Im saying that Justification before God takes place before a person believes in Christ based upon the death of Christ for them. They are Justified before God even while they are ungodly Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification is based solely on the death of Christ. Salvation is based on the eternal purpose of God, the forekowledge and predestination of God, the death, resurrection, and High Priestly work of Christ.

The state and standing of salvation which includes justification is given by God to those who believe. Romans 5:1

If you dont see Justification before God prior to the persons faith, then its obvious you dont see Justification before God solely based on the death of Christ alone.

 

[riverhooks]

Again:

Im saying that Justification before God takes place before a person believes in Christ based upon the death of Christ for them. They are Justified before God even while they are ungodly Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Dude, God himself said "I will not justify the wicked " . He satisfied the law and righteousness of God. Now you must believe , He must impute that righteousness that precious blood to you. You are the ungodly , you believe then you receive the gift of righteousness which Jesus the High priest imputes to you . You are ungodly needing Jesus. He will not over-rule your free-will and miracle your blessed assurance to sit with Him in heavenly places . Salvation by grace through faith. AS MOSES LIFTED UP THE SERPENT IN THE WILDERNESS EVEN SO MUST THE SON OF MAN BE LIFTED UP THAT WHOSOEVER believes on Him. Salvation is not by over-ruling freewill, inability is not the same as depravity, you had to roll over in your tent if you were snake bit and look at the brazen serpent Moses was holding up . That is Grace , God does not lose Glory if you obey Him. God does not justify the ungodly prior to salvation. You can only receive that gift by believing, faith is born in the heart by the Word of God. The gospel is sent to the unbelievers.

 

[OIC1965]

If you dont see Justification before God prior to the persons faith, then its obvious you dont see Justification before God solely based on the death of Christ alone.

That is a false dichotomy. Justification is based on Christ’s work alone. Faith, which is not a work and is a gift of God is the means by which God justifies us.

 

[OIC1965]

Again:

Im saying that Justification before God takes place before a person believes in Christ based upon the death of Christ for them. They are Justified before God even while they are ungodly Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Justification and the act of God counting us righteous (by faith) IS THE SAME THING.

 

[OIC1965]

If you dont see Justification before God prior to the persons faith, then its obvious you dont see Justification before God solely based on the death of Christ alone.

How do you define justification?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Justified before believing.

That those who Christ died for are Justified before God before believing in Him is seen here in Paul's words Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

wrong ... what is seen in Romans 4:5 is:

1) faith is not works
2) those who believe on Him Who justifies the ungodly, their faith is counted for righteousness

nowhere does the verse state "those who Christ died for are Justified before God before believing in Him". Your claim is void of Scriptural support.



Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

 

[reneweddaybyday]

John Gill agrees:

of course you agree with John Gill ...

John Gill (23 November 1697 – 14 October 1771) was an English Baptist pastor, biblical scholar, and theologian who held to a firm Calvinistic soteriology.​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gill_(theologian)​

​

align your thoughts with Scripture. don't manipulate Scripture to prop up your dogma ...

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

you're not going to get away from the faith factor, brightfame52.

Read the verse ... quit insisting that faith is works. Clearly, Romans 4:5 tells us faith is not works.

 

[OIC1965]

Again:

Im saying that Justification before God takes place before a person believes in Christ based upon the death of Christ for them. They are Justified before God even while they are ungodly Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

God is the one who justifies the ungodly. "Him that justifies the ungodly" is a participial phrase describing God. It does not mean that God justifies before faith, it just means that God is the one that justifies the ungodly.

A participle can be used as an adjective to modify a noun or assert something about it. This is a common use of the adjective in Greek. Greek Participles (ntgreek.org)

Read carefully.

So Him the justifies the ungodly is a participle that is used as an adjective, that is it is describing or asserting something about God, namely that God justifies the ungodly.

Justify-Greek dikaioo- to render, show, declare, or pronounce one to be righteous. To justify. Strong's Greek: 1344. δικαιόω (dikaioó) -- to show to be righteous, declare righteous (biblehub.com) δικαιόω dikaióō, dik-ah-yo'-o; from G1342; to render (i.e. show or regard as) just or innocent:—free, justify(-ier), be righteous. (G1344 - dikaioō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org) )

So the one who believes on God, who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness, ie God justifies Him. DECLARED RIGHTEOUS (counted for righteousness) AND JUSTIFIED IS THE SAME THING. Faith is counted for righteousness is synonomous with justified through faith. (Notice I said THROUGH, not BY. )

 

[brightfame52]

Justified before believing 2

Hence, His dying for the Ungodly Rom 5:6, the resurrection says that dying for them declared them Justified in Him that bare their sins; And ones act of believing had nothing to do with God raising Christ from the dead, Justifying Him from bearing our sins.

Also we know that those Christ died for are Justified[before God's law and Justice] before they believe, by His Death alone, because they are at the same time, by Christ's death alone, reconciled to God even while they themselves by nature are enemies. Rom 5:10 ! The word enemies is the greek word"echthros" opposing (God) in the mind, as in Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

At that time believers were unbelievers, however even then as unbelievers they were reconciled to God. That word reconciled katallassō means return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

So understand, because of Christ's Death for those He died for, even while they are in a state of opposing God in their minds with and by wicked works, they have been by God, because of Christ's Death for them, received into His Divine Favour, He is 100% placated in regards to them. He is on a friendly relations with them while they oppose Him and are being unbelievers. How can such then not also be Justified while they are being Ungodly ? They are in the Favor of God !

That word favour means:

to prefer; treat with partiality: The father favored his younger son.

God because of Christ, treats those Christ died for with partiality, with preferential treatment, because others whom Christ did not die for, while they are in unbelief and being enemies, they are already condemned Jn 3:18 and His wrath is abiding on them Jn 3:36 and such have not been received into the favour of God by Christ's Death.

All for whom Christ died were Justified before God with Christ, their Shepherd when He rose from the dead with God being at peace with Him for us Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Yes, when Christ was brought again from the dead after having died for His Sheep Jn 10:15, God was at peace with Him and His Sheep whom He died for, Hence " The God of Peace" Because He is at peace and reconciled to His Sheep by the Death and blood of their Shepherd.

We know this denotes His and their Justification because of Rom 4:25

25 Who[The Shepherd] was delivered for our[The Sheep's] offences, and was raised again for our[The Sheep's] justification.

Hence they [the Sheep] were Justified before they believed.

Now Paul stated the Justification of the Elect or Sheep by God based upon Two premiss:

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

#1 premise " It is Christ that died " So His Death and #2 He is risen again !

Christ dying and who was raised [ because of our Justification] and this is the basis of His Present intercession !

 

[brightfame52]

That is a false dichotomy. Justification is based on Christ’s work alone. Faith, which is not a work and is a gift of God is the means by which God justifies us.

No its not false. If you dont see people Christ died for as being Justified by His blood before faith, you dont believe that Christs death/blood alone Justified a person before God.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification and the act of God counting us righteous (by faith) IS THE SAME THING.

You keep denying Justification before God solely based on Christ Blood. It has nothing to do with a persons faith. It has all to do with Christs Faith/Faithfulness. You deny this !

 

[brightfame52]

How do you define justification?

The way its defined if you look the word up in a lexicon.

 

[brightfame52]

wrong ... what is seen in Romans 4:5 is:

1) faith is not works
2) those who believe on Him Who justifies the ungodly, their faith is counted for righteousness

nowhere does the verse state "those who Christ died for are Justified before God before believing in Him". Your claim is void of Scriptural support.



Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

No its not wrong, you just dont believe in Justification before God based soley on the blood of Christ. Thats bad

 

[brightfame52]

of course you agree with John Gill ...

John Gill (23 November 1697 – 14 October 1771) was an English Baptist pastor, biblical scholar, and theologian who held to a firm Calvinistic soteriology.​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gill_(theologian)​

​

align your thoughts with Scripture. don't manipulate Scripture to prop up your dogma ...

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

you're not going to get away from the faith factor, brightfame52.

Read the verse ... quit insisting that faith is works. Clearly, Romans 4:5 tells us faith is not works.

John Gill and a host of others believe the truth about the ones Christ died for were by His death Justified before God while they were ungodly.

 

[brightfame52]

God is the one who justifies the ungodly. "Him that justifies the ungodly" is a participial phrase describing God. It does not mean that God justifies before faith, it just means that God is the one that justifies the ungodly.

Read carefully.

So Him the justifies the ungodly is a participle that is used as an adjective, that is it is describing or asserting something about God, namely that God justifies the ungodly.

Justify-Greek dikaioo- to render, show, declare, or pronounce one to be righteous. To justify. Strong's Greek: 1344. δικαιόω (dikaioó) -- to show to be righteous, declare righteous (biblehub.com) δικαιόω dikaióō, dik-ah-yo'-o; from G1342; to render (i.e. show or regard as) just or innocent:—free, justify(-ier), be righteous. (G1344 - dikaioō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org) )

So the one who believes on God, who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness, ie God justifies Him. DECLARED RIGHTEOUS (counted for righteousness) AND JUSTIFIED IS THE SAME THING. Faith is counted for righteousness is synonomous with justified through faith. (Notice I said THROUGH, not BY. )

Yes God justifies the ungodly based upon Christs death for them. Their faith had nothing to do with it, in fact they werent even born yet.

 

[OIC1965]

The way its defined if you look the word up in a lexicon.

I gave you the lexicon definition. It means to pronounce or declare righteous, which is the same thing as imputing righteousness or counting or reckoning righteousness for faith. (Romans 4:5).

Our faith does not justify. The one we believe justifies us freely based entirely on the work of Christ through or by means of faith. We are justified by Christ’s righteousness through (not by) faith.

 

[OIC1965]

Yes God justifies the ungodly based upon Christs death for them. Their faith had nothing to do with it, in fact they werent even born yet.

Can you give me ONE citation of a Bible teacher from anytime in history that interpreted Paul to mean justification before birth in Romans 4:5 or anywhere else.

No John Gill did not teach justification before birth.

(Note. Keep in mind that Election is not the same as justification. Not synonymous).

Basically you’re saying that people are saved before they’re born.

 

[OIC1965]

Can you give me ONE citation of a Bible teacher from anytime in history that interpreted Paul to mean justification before birth

No John Gill did not teach justification before birth.

(Note. Keep in mind that Election is not the same as justification. Not synonymous).

Basically you’re saying that people are saved before they’re born.

I see that John Gill did teach justification before birth, but Paul did not. The God who justifies the ungodly counts (credits, reckons) the faith of those who believe for righteousness. Romans 4:5. Couldn’t be any clearer. That is justification. Gill is wrong.

 

[brightfame52]

I gave you the lexicon definition. It means to pronounce or declare righteous, which is the same thing as imputing righteousness or counting or reckoning righteousness for faith. (Romans 4:5).

Our faith does not justify. The one we believe justifies us freely based entirely on the work of Christ through or by means of faith. We are justified by Christ’s righteousness through (not by) faith.

They are Justified by God before God while they are ungodly, while they are unbelievers. If you deny that you denying Justification by the death of Christ alone.