Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

You’re still conflating justification and predestination. Just give me one verse where it specifically says that we were justified before we were born. Give me the clearest and best citation.

Christ died for many people before they were born. His death ustified them.

 

[brightfame52]

What do you think justified by faith or through faith means?

Im not discussing Justification by faith at this juncture, but Justification by the death of Christ. Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

[brightfame52]

again you rip a verse from its context in order to prop up your dogma ...

Romans 4:

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him [Abraham]

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith ...



Context = The context of an idea or event is the general situation that relates to it, and which helps it to be understood
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/context)

If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/out-of-context)


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

Im highlighting truth within the context:

The resurrection of Christ is evidence that those He died for have been Justified from their sins . Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[OIC1965]

Im not discussing Justification by faith at this juncture, but Justification by the death of Christ. Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Are you saying you believe in two justifications? And this verse does not say anything about the temporal aspect of justification.

 

[riverhooks]

Yawn

 

[riverhooks]

All for whom Christ died are Justified before God by His Death alone, because by His death for them, His blood shed for them,which is the same as His death for them, it makes them Holy, and if Holy, then Justified, and this is true because of this Truth Heb 13:12

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered [died] without the gate.

This word sanctify means :

to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow

2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God

a) consecrate things to God

b) dedicate people to God

3) to purify

a) to cleanse externally

b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin

c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Notice ALSO that His Death ensures their renewing of the soul, which is this Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

But the writer of Hebrews here in Heb 13:12 means:

"the expiation of the guilt of sin, which Christ has fully took away; complete pardon being procured, and a perfect righteousness brought in:"

All for whom He died are freed/Justified from sin by His Body Rom 6:7

7 For he that is dead [with Christ] is freed from sin.

This word freed means:

to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

All for whom Christ died is dead . In fact, in the greek it reads " having died"

That occurred [having died] when He died for all 2 Cor 5:14

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

The greek reads " then all died"

2 Cor 5:14

14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died;

Its the same principle, as when adam died, all for whom He represented died, and so all for whom Christ represented, when He died, they died.

And this being the case, they are freed or Justified from sin. That is what His Resurrection declares of all for whom offences He died Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

So Rom 4:25 here and Rom 6:7 teach the same thing, Justification before God from all sin by Christ's Death alone !

This also is the same as was prophesied to occur based upon His Covenant Death Lk 1:74-75

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Also Heb 10:10 confirms that Christ's Death alone Sanctified forever, all those He was delivered in behalf of !

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow

2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God

a) consecrate things to God

b) dedicate people to God

3) to purify

a) to cleanse externally

b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin

c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul 7

"Now you are the people and wisdom will die with you” . ( Job) Got Milk ?

 

[brightfame52]

Are you saying you believe in two justifications? And this verse does not say anything about the temporal aspect of justification.

Im saying that Justification before God takes place before a person believes in Christ based upon the death of Christ for them. They are Justified before God even while they are ungodly Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[OIC1965]

Im saying that Justification before God takes place before a person believes in Christ based upon the death of Christ for them. They are Justified before God even while they are ungodly Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Justification and imputed righteousness ( having faith counted for righteousness) is the same thing.

 

[OIC1965]

Im saying that Justification before God takes place before a person believes in Christ based upon the death of Christ for them. They are Justified before God even while they are ungodly Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Justification before faith. I see it nowhere in scripture.

Justification based on what Christ has done. Yes.

Justication through faith and justification based on Christ’s work are not mutually exclusive.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So Rom 4:25 here and Rom 6:7 teach the same thing, Justification before God from all sin by Christ's Death alone !

context, context, context

Context = The context of an idea or event is the general situation that relates to it, and which helps it to be understood
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/context)

If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/out-of-context)


Keep Romans 4:25 within the context within which it sits and keep Romans 6:7 in the context within which it sits.

God placed each verse in its context in order for us to understand what He wants us to understand.

you, brightfame52, take verses out of context ... mix a verse here, a verse there with his wind of doctrine ... not going there with you, brightfame52


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive




READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Im saying that Justification before God takes place before a person believes in Christ based upon the death of Christ for them. They are Justified before God even while they are ungodly /quote]
Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.[

 

[reneweddaybyday]

timed out on Post #411 ... here's my full reply ...

Im saying that Justification before God takes place before a person believes in Christ based upon the death of Christ for them. They are Justified before God even while they are ungodly

you are so off base ... align your thoughts with Scripture. don't manipulate Scripture to prop up your dogma ...

Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

you're not going to get away from the faith factor, brightfame52.

Read the verse ... quit insisting that faith is works. Clearly, Romans 4:5 tells us faith is not works.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Im highlighting truth within the context

no you're not ... you're ripping the verse from its context in order to support your dogma.

Here is good instruction from Scripture:

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

you're following in the footsteps of Eve ... manipulating Scripture to support a doctrine never intended by God.

I will follow my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ ... it is written!!!

 

[brightfame52]

Justified before believing.

That those who Christ died for are Justified before God before believing in Him is seen here in Paul's words Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

That Justifieth the ungodly is in the present tense, they are in a state of ungodliness, also the definite article precedes the ungodly, so its the whole of the elect, all whom Christ died for, being Justified by His death while they are being ungodly or in a lost state.

And its no where in scripture where the believer in Christ is stated to be the ungodly or in a ungodly state.

Oh Yes they are noted as being ungodly before they believe as when it is said that Christ died for the Ungodly before they believed Rom 5:6

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

It was Christ's Death itself, that Justified them, while they were ungodly in themselves, because He bare their sins Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

And after that [bearing their sins] He was raised from the dead, which Resurrection declared He and them because of it, Justified before God, Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Hence, His dying for the Ungodly Rom 5:6, the resurrection says that dying for them declared them Justified in Him that bare their sins; And ones act of believing had nothing to do with God raising Christ from the dead, Justifying Him from bearing our sins.7

 

[brightfame52]

Justification and imputed righteousness ( having faith counted for righteousness) is the same thing.

Again:

Im saying that Justification before God takes place before a person believes in Christ based upon the death of Christ for them. They are Justified before God even while they are ungodly Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification before faith. I see it nowhere in scripture.

Justification based on what Christ has done. Yes.

Justication through faith and justification based on Christ’s work are not mutually exclusive.

If you dont see Justification before God prior to the persons faith, then its obvious you dont see Justification before God soley based on the death of Christ alone.

 

[brightfame52]

context, context, context

Context = The context of an idea or event is the general situation that relates to it, and which helps it to be understood
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/context)

If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/out-of-context)


Keep Romans 4:25 within the context within which it sits and keep Romans 6:7 in the context within which it sits.

God placed each verse in its context in order for us to understand what He wants us to understand.

you, brightfame52, take verses out of context ... mix a verse here, a verse there with his wind of doctrine ... not going there with you, brightfame52


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive




READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

So Rom 4:25 here and Rom 6:7 teach the same thing, Justification before God from all sin by Christ's Death alone ! If you dont believe that, its a serious issue.

 

[brightfame52]

timed out on Post #411 ... here's my full reply ...


you are so off base ... align your thoughts with Scripture. don't manipulate Scripture to prop up your dogma ...

Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

you're not going to get away from the faith factor, brightfame52.

Read the verse ... quit insisting that faith is works. Clearly, Romans 4:5 tells us faith is not works.

Yes they are justified while being ungodly Rom 4:5. John Gill agrees:

but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly: or that ungodly one: particular reference is had to Abraham, who in his state of unregeneracy was an ungodly person; as all God's elect are in a state of nature, and are such when God justifies them, being without a righteousness of their own; wherefore he imputes the righteousness of another, even that of his own Son, unto them: and though he justifies the ungodly, he does not justify their ungodliness, but them from it; nor will he, nor does he leave them to live and die in it; now to him that worketh not, that is perfect righteousness; or has no opportunity of working at all; or what he does, he does not do, that he might be justified by it; but exercises faith on God as justifying persons, who, like himself, are sinners, ungodly and destitute of a righteousness:

his faith is counted for righteousness; not the act, but the object of it; which was Abraham's case, and therefore was not justified by works. The Vulgate Latin version here adds, "according to the purpose of the grace of God".

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[OIC1965]

Again:

Im saying that Justification before God takes place before a person believes in Christ based upon the death of Christ for them. They are Justified before God even while they are ungodly Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

a. Justification equals imputed righteousness
b. Faith is counted for righteousness (imputed righteousness) equals justified through faith.

 

[OIC1965]

If you dont see Justification before God prior to the persons faith, then its obvious you dont see Justification before God soley based on the death of Christ alone.

Justification is based solely on the death of Christ. Salvation is based on the eternal purpose of God, the forekowledge and predestination of God, the death, resurrection, and High Priestly work of Christ.

The state and standing of salvation which includes justification is given by God to those who believe. Romans 5:1