@studentoftheword - Do you relate to Colossians 2:9-15? If you've received Circumcision of the Heart, those Seven verses should be as clear as the noonday sun.
The Problem of evil
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Reposting this to this page
@2ndTimothyGroup
see it as you like ----if you believe Born Again people are good then that is what you believe --
I do not ---and that is my belief -----we still sin ----and that is not good ---we still have thinking the way the world thinks ---that is not good ----so we are good and heaven bound on the inside and still morally corrupt on the outside -----
no one is Good but God ------he is the only one who is good on the inside and outside ----
I don't think you understand the 3 types of man ----All Born Again people remain Carnal until they Mature in stature to a Spiritual man -----and I know know one who has ever or will ever attain
the Spirit man Status in our life time ------
So --------if you think your have advance to a Spiritual man status ---well good for you ---but I am still working on getting to the Spiritual man stage -------so I am not good --
You see------ we who are Born again are called Carnal Christians -------Most Christians will die as a Carnal Christian -------and never advance to the Spiritual man level ----it takes much work and stamina to reach that level -----
The Carnal Man: He is one that is born again into God’s family, but lives and behaves as a man in a natural state living according to his carnal or fleshly desires. Instead of following the leading of the Holy Spirit, he chooses to allow the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and pride tempt him, which produces ungodly works and the inability to grow in Spiritual maturity and discernment (Romans 7:14-25; 1 Corinthians 3:1-14).
Only by immersing himself in the Word of God and putting off the works of the flesh can he abstain from his fleshly lusts and live a life that is pleasing to God and serves as a glorification of God before unbelievers (1 Peter 2:11-12).
Sadly, the carnal man often claims he is a Christian, but demonstrates to the world that Christians are no different than anyone else.
I say ------We are to advance ourselves to the Spiritual man ----
The Spiritual Man: He is one that is born again into God’s family and lives in a Spiritual state.
1 CORINTHIANS 2:15
AMP
But the spiritual man [the spiritually mature Christian] judges all things [questions, examines and applies what the Holy Spirit reveals], yet is himself judged by no one [the unbeliever cannot judge and understand the believer’s spiritual nature].
AMPC
But the spiritual man tries all things [he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him
So context --contex ---context
@2ndTimothyGroup
see it as you like ----if you believe Born Again people are good then that is what you believe --
I do not ---and that is my belief -----we still sin ----and that is not good ---we still have thinking the way the world thinks ---that is not good ----so we are good and heaven bound on the inside and still morally corrupt on the outside -----
no one is Good but God ------he is the only one who is good on the inside and outside ----
I don't think you understand the 3 types of man ----All Born Again people remain Carnal until they Mature in stature to a Spiritual man -----and I know know one who has ever or will ever attain
the Spirit man Status in our life time ------
So --------if you think your have advance to a Spiritual man status ---well good for you ---but I am still working on getting to the Spiritual man stage -------so I am not good --
You see------ we who are Born again are called Carnal Christians -------Most Christians will die as a Carnal Christian -------and never advance to the Spiritual man level ----it takes much work and stamina to reach that level -----
The Carnal Man: He is one that is born again into God’s family, but lives and behaves as a man in a natural state living according to his carnal or fleshly desires. Instead of following the leading of the Holy Spirit, he chooses to allow the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and pride tempt him, which produces ungodly works and the inability to grow in Spiritual maturity and discernment (Romans 7:14-25; 1 Corinthians 3:1-14).
Only by immersing himself in the Word of God and putting off the works of the flesh can he abstain from his fleshly lusts and live a life that is pleasing to God and serves as a glorification of God before unbelievers (1 Peter 2:11-12).
Sadly, the carnal man often claims he is a Christian, but demonstrates to the world that Christians are no different than anyone else.
I say ------We are to advance ourselves to the Spiritual man ----
The Spiritual Man: He is one that is born again into God’s family and lives in a Spiritual state.
1 CORINTHIANS 2:15
AMP
But the spiritual man [the spiritually mature Christian] judges all things [questions, examines and applies what the Holy Spirit reveals], yet is himself judged by no one [the unbeliever cannot judge and understand the believer’s spiritual nature].
AMPC
But the spiritual man tries all things [he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him
So context --contex ---context
I understand . . . you're not serious about this site or your faith.
Take care
No --I don't think you do understand ----Good in the dictionary means this
- to be desired or approved of.
"a good quality of life".
2 having the qualities required for a particular role.
The WORD GOOD in this Scripture does not mean that at all -----
Luke 18:19
New International Version
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.
The Hebrew WORD FOR GOOD Here is Agathos and it means perfection
Strong's Concordance
agathos: good
Definition: good
Usage: intrinsically good, good in nature,
in general denotes"perfectus, ..., excelling in any respect, . It can be predicated of persons, things, conditions, qualities and affections of the soul, deeds, times and seasons.
So if we look up the Bible meaning of PERFECTUS -----
We get this ----
KJV Dictionary Definition: perfect
perfect
PER'FECT, a. L. perfectus, perficio, to complete; per and facio, to do or make through, to carry to the end.
1. Finished; complete; consummate; not defective; having all that is requisite to its nature and kind; as a perfect statue; a perfect likeness; a perfect work; a perfect system.
As full, as perfect in a hair as heart.
2. Fully informed; completely skilled; as men perfect in the use of arms; perfect in discipline.
3. Complete in moral excellencies.
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father who is in heaven is perfect. Matt.5.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So -- 2ndTimothyGroup, ---------are you perfect in all your ways -----if your not then you are not considered GOOD ------and God is the only one who is GOOD ----who is perfect -in all His ways ------
No, you're not. You have one agenda and that is to promote "circumcision". And that leads to senseless debate.
And you, too, should be promoting Spiritual Circumcision, for our Faith is dependent upon it. Our Gospel is a Gospel of Circumcision.
Do you, @Nehemiah6 relate to Colossians 2:9-15?
Do you, @Nehemiah6 relate to Colossians 2:9-15?
@Nehemiah6 - Does Colossians 2:9-15 explain the Romans 12:2 Transformation of your mind and life? Would you be willing to share your Transformation story?
There is no question that Colossians 2:9-15 is the Word of God. Which means that absolutely every Christian must take heed to what is said in that passage. But we should actually take the entire passage from verse 8 to verse 23 to understand the context and what exactly Paul is addressing:
COLOSSIANS 2: CHRIST HAS FREED US FROM THE POWER OF "THE FLESH" AND THE "RUDIMENTS OF THE WORLD"
A. THE WORLD AND ITS PHILOPHIES AND TRADITIONS ARE AGAINST CHRIST
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
B. THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD IS IN CHRIST HIMSELF (WHO IS GOD)
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
C. CHRISTIANS ARE COMPLETE IN CHRIST
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the Head of all principality and power:
D, CHRISTIANS ARE ALREADY FREED FROM THE POWER OF THE FLESH
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: [Note: "ye are" is in the present tense. It is through the New Birth (a new heart, a new spirit, a new creature, a new creation) that hearts are "circumcised" and set free from the power of the indwelling Adamic sin nature (called "the flesh"). Hence Paul says "sin SHALL NOT have dominion over you"]
E. CHRISTIAN BAPTISM IS SYMBOLIC OF DEATH TO "THE FLESH" AND SINS
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
F. ALL THE CHARGES AGAINST US FOR VIOLATING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS WERE NAILED TO THE CROSS BECAUSE CHRIST PAID THE PENALTY IN FULL
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
F. DIETARY RESTRICITIONS AND CEREMONIAL OBSERVANCES WERE ONLY "SHADOWS", THE REALITY IS CHRIST HIMSELF
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
G. ASCETISM AND THE WORSHIP OF ANGELS IS FORBIDDEN
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
H. CHRISTIANS ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE DOCTRINES OF MEN, AND NOTHING FROM OUTSIDE DEFILES THE CHRISTIAN
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using. after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Ok. So you [don't] relate to Colossians 2:9-15? And, you don't have a Romans 12:2 Transformation story?
LOL ---cop out --Statement here ----I say -----
This passage you quote ---Colossians 2:9-15 and I suppose think it says makes us good people ----
Hate to burst your bubble but if you research this scripture you will see Paul is talking about Jesus Himself --it is all about Him -----and who Jesus is and what He did and accomplished ---it really has nothing to do with showing we are good people ------if that is what your goal was in using the scripture --
Superiority of Jesus’ Nature – vs. 9
Superiority of Jesus’ Work – vs. 10
Superiority of Jesus’ Position – vs. 10
A Superior Circumcision – vs. 11
“and in Him you were also circumcised
A Superior Baptism – vs. 12
Jesus also provides a superior baptism – “having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.”
A Superior Life – vs. 13 – 14
Jesus also provides a superior life for it is one that is far beyond the present physical life the false teachers were trying to affect.
The Dead Made Alive – vs. 13 “And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him.
The power of God is demonstrated in making alive what was dead, and the same power that raised Jesus from the dead is able to give us spiritual life. This is something God has done on our behalf that we could not do for ourselves since what is dead is incapable of anything except rotting. No philosophy or religious system can overcome it, only God can
Forgiven All Transgressions – vs 13 – “. . . having forgiven us all our transgressions . .
We do not earn forgiveness. It was given to us by God through Christ.
Charges Dismissed – vs. 14 “. . .having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us [and] which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”
A Superior Triumph – vs. 15
Finally, Jesus offers a superior triumph. “When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.”
I'm not reading your posts because you're unwilling to participate in fair dialog. I don't have time for it your nonsense.
No, not really. I live in Central Washington. If you live in my state, I'll come and visit your church, attend the service and morning class if there is one applicable to me, and we can have a sit-down chat afterward. I'd be more than comfortable with you bringing your pastor and we can go over the printouts of our conversation. Why would I do this? Because I don't think that you'd be carrying this same childish attitude. No one who has been Transformed, having received the Mind of Christ, would behave as you do.
Romans 5:20
Now the law entered in, that sin might abound. And where sin abounded, grace did more abound.
Example:
Peter not just denied Christ, but cussed like a sailor in his emphatic denial
But look at what Christ does at His Resurrection and when the Disciples were fishing.
1. When the women went to the Tomb and found it empty, the Angel said:
7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
^
Notice how Peter is mentioned specifically.
Now watch this:
14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
And what do we see coming out of Peter's Mouth after the Ascension of Christ?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
So Peter went from Cussing and Lying to Preaching and 3,000 Souls were Saved!
Now, I am not saying we are to sin. But I am saying, if we do sin by being human and not intentionally, where Sin exists for us Believers, Grace exists in more abundance.
Now the law entered in, that sin might abound. And where sin abounded, grace did more abound.
Example:
Peter not just denied Christ, but cussed like a sailor in his emphatic denial
But look at what Christ does at His Resurrection and when the Disciples were fishing.
1. When the women went to the Tomb and found it empty, the Angel said:
7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
^
Notice how Peter is mentioned specifically.
Now watch this:
14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
And what do we see coming out of Peter's Mouth after the Ascension of Christ?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
So Peter went from Cussing and Lying to Preaching and 3,000 Souls were Saved!
Now, I am not saying we are to sin. But I am saying, if we do sin by being human and not intentionally, where Sin exists for us Believers, Grace exists in more abundance.
Great post. And why wouldn't His Chosen ones receive this Grace? Did [we] choose to be under the Curse of the Lord? Was it our decision to be impacted by the Law of Death and Sin because of the unholy work of Adam and Eve? I didn't do anything to be under this Curse, yet I was born with it? Grace . . . the lifting of the Curse of the Lord.
John 15:16, 19 NLT - 16 "You didn't choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name." ... 19 "The world would love you as one of its own if you belonged to it, but you are no longer part of the world. I chose you to come out of the world, so it hates you."
This is a demonstration of Power! To cause His Chosen ones to choose Him . . . this is consistent with the stories of the Old Testament and the Power that envelops them.
HB, this gets back to the Romans 11 Scripture that I showed you the other day, where it clearly states that the minds of the Jews were placed into a "deep sleep" so that they couldn't understand (the Viel of Moses). Throughout the NT we keep reading that Israel will be saved . . . and this is why! What did they do to deserve this sleep? God used them as an example to show the world what sin was all about. Were they punished? Of course, this is obvious through Scripture, but they will also be incredibly rewarded for their trials and struggles when each collective person stands before Him.
Jeremiah 31:36 NLT - 36 "I am as likely to reject my people Israel as I am to abolish the laws of nature!"
Ezekiel 39:25 NLT - 25 "So now, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will end the captivity of my people; I will have mercy on all Israel, for I jealously guard my holy reputation!"
This is a remarkable verse in that it shows that it is True that God has chosen this group of people. What’s more . . . they are the Lord’s “servants.” If this is True, and of course it is, have you ever wondered why the Lord’s Chosen Ones were incredibly disobedient? How can these people be referred to as “servants” if they aren’t serving the Lord? Think about it: If the Lord has placed Israel into a deep sleep, which is a form of sleep that does not allow the Israelites to understand and obey, how can they be His servants? They were placed into a deep sleep, thus causing them to stumble, which is why God promised that He would repay them double for the portions of pain and strife given to them. Because it was the Lord who caused Israel to believe and behave as they did, this is precisely how they were “serving” the Lord. Israel was serving God by doing exactly as the Lord had caused them to be.
Romans 11 8 . . . N L T: – “As the Scriptures say, “God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear.”
Isaiah 61 7-8 . . . N K J V: – “Instead of your shame you shall have double honor, And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion. Therefore in their land they shall possess double; Everlasting joy shall be theirs. “For I, the LORD, love justice; I hate robbery for burnt offering; I will direct their work in truth, And will make with them an everlasting covenant.”
Why would the Lord give a double portion as repayment to the Israelites? If Israel sinned, why do they deserve anything at all? We are “Undeserving,” as Christians like to say, well then why is Israel promised a double portion of honor? This, too, is Righteous Judgement, is it not? What is undeserved is the Sinful Nature, for we all possessed and held it before we were even born. What is deserved, then, is Righteous Judgement. Therefore, because God placed double the shame onto Israel, the Righteous judgment in their favor will be for the Lord to increase and double their Righteous rewards, and that reward will be honor. The rest of the world was only given nominal shame; thus, we as Gentiles are given a nominal reward, but Israel was used to show and prove to the world what sin was all about.
The point is, evil exists when someone hates God and evil will be allowed to continue until repentance is no longer possible.