Money is Satan

[Runningman]

Your view sounds like a cultish, socialistic twisting of Scripture, or maybe some offshoot of Buddhist teachings.

From my perspective, I think you are attempting to attack my character. Is there a reason why you decided to make this personal?

If you are correct, why didn't the Jews outlaw money in their society?

When do you propose that the Jews should have outlawed money?

And please explain to me how humans are supposed to live without having any desires whatsoever? Normal human desires and instincts drive us to provide food for ourselves and our families, to seek mates, to put roofs over our heads.

I don't need to explain something I didn't say.

If you are not an ascetic, living naked in the woods, then you cannot hold the view you promote without being a hypocrite. Since you have a computer, that you are a hypocrite is the only logical conclusion here. I really have nothing else to say to you on this subject.

This is called a Bible discussion forum. The views I discuss are not necessarily my own. I am discussing what the Bible says and I am using sola scriptura. You're free to run along while the adults continue.

 

[ewq1938]

When we are employed, we are coveting money they does not belong to us yet. Covet just means desiring something that does to belong to you. Technically just wanting a paycheck is a sin, but that's being strict about it.

Desiring something that you have earned and worked for is not a sin. Coveting good things is always ok like in these verses:

1Co_12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1Co_14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

 

[ewq1938]

So while there is some truth in what you're saying, it's not completely right, so it's wrong. If someone wants anything that belongs to someone else then that's coveting and the Bible says it's a sin.

That's incorrect. It's their money that they have already earned. The boss or accountant is just holding the money until it's payday. They are rightly coveting their own money. If they coveted money in the boss's bank account then that is different.

 

[Runningman]

That's incorrect. It's their money that they have already earned. The boss or accountant is just holding the money until it's payday. They are rightly coveting their own money. If they coveted money in the boss's bank account then that is different.

No, that's not how it works. Employees don't earn anything until they work the agreed upon hours. While they are working for the money it does not belong to them until they've completed their labor. What you're describing is called a cash advance (that's basically a loan - also coveting) and it isn't the same as wages earned in exchange for labor.

Don't get confused and trip over your own false logic here. Anything that does not belong to you, that you want, is called coveting and it's a sin.

 

[Runningman]

Desiring something that you have earned and worked for is not a sin. Coveting good things is always ok like in these verses:

1Co_12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1Co_14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

That's not the same as coveting the money that belongs to someone else. Those are gifts that initially belong to God and not our neighbour. It doesn't apply. Did you read the 10th commandment?

Exodus 20:17
17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

 

[ewq1938]

No, that's not how it works. Employees don't earn anything until they work the agreed upon hours.

And each hour they have earned their hourly wage. It's their money right then but they have agreed that the business should hold their money until a certain day. People agree to that because it's much easier to save money you can't touch rather than to save it if you were paid daily.

Don't get confused and trip over your own false logic here.

Don't make this personal. I disagreed with you and explained why.

 

[ewq1938]

That's not the same as coveting the money that belongs to someone else. Those are gifts that initially belong to God and not our neighbour.

I'm just proving not all coveting is sinful as you have claimed.

 

[Runningman]

And each hour they have earned their hourly wage. It's their money right then but they have agreed that the business should hold their money until a certain day. People agree to that because it's much easier to save money you can't touch rather than to save it if you were paid daily.




Don't make this personal. I disagreed with you and explained why.

Go take "your" money from your employer then. Let me know how that goes for you. And I appologize, i did not intend to get personal. I see how what I said could have been taken that way.

 

[Runningman]

I'm just proving not all coveting is sinful as you have claimed.

You've proved nothing.

Exodus 20:17
17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

 

[ewq1938]

Go take "your" money from your employer then. Let me know how that goes for you.

That happens every payday.

And I appologize, i did not intend to get personal. I see how what I said could have been taken that way.

Well, the above two sentences aren't exactly sprinkled with sugar are they? In the other post with the other member you mentioned he got a little personal with you and you ended the post calling him a child. That was worse than anything he said.

Not saying I'm perfect either but it's kinda odd to protest about personal things being said and then end with a huge insult...

Anyways, I have proven there is a concept of a good coveting and have explained why I think it is not a sin to covet hard earned money.

 

[ewq1938]

You've proved nothing.

Let the readers decide:

1Co_12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1Co_14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Good coveting or sinful coveting?

 

[peldom10]

When you get it, when you see it, you know it like no other thing. Money, in all its forms, is Satan. Economics, all of it, is the religion of Satan; it is the theology of Satan.

Money must be brought down. Money must be defeated. The book of Revelation, at its core, is about the fight of Christ against the forces of money.

If you don't believe me, let your mind wander. Go all the way back into the far reaches of human history and consider how much misery money has brought the human race.

I don't know what to do about it. I have no solution to offer you. All I can do is type the final lines of Revelation:

He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

It is not the money........it is man's actions with money.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Runningman,

I think that your point of view is extreme.

How do you propose that believers put food on the table if they don't have jobs?

 

[ewq1938]

Christ had one of the disciples carry his money that they shared for the groups well being. Christ was not against having or spending money. He even taught that one should use money to create more money and the one who buried it and earned no profit was a bad person.

Mat 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[stilllearning]

No, that's not how it works. Employees don't earn anything until they work the agreed upon hours. While they are working for the money it does not belong to them until they've completed their labor. What you're describing is called a cash advance (that's basically a loan - also coveting) and it isn't the same as wages earned in exchange for labor.

Don't get confused and trip over your own false logic here. Anything that does not belong to you, that you want, is called coveting and it's a sin.

I can get where you are coming from I truly can and even see the logic you are using. However, I lean more on it is necessity born from lack. It is the state of a fallen world under a curse.

I believe first we have to identify what money really is and what it truly represents. It a medium of exchange that is widely accepted. It came to be because in a true trade and barter system what we have to trade can become valueless in the trade.

Such as we make shoes and we need nails. We go to the person who makes nails and he has no need for shoes because the ones we traded with him last month are still good. So we of course have the introduction of a system of currency where it would be gold or silver until the introduction of coined money.

So we have a universally accepted medium of exchange that can be traded with, that still carries the value of our labor or product. So while the individual we are trading with may not need our direct labor or product. He can take the medium of exchange that represents our labor or product of value and trade it for something he may need.

Money also represents our very life. All of us who have been born have been born into a fallen world. In this fallen world we are all born with the same tradeable value which is our very life. When we work a job we trade our very life for the medium of exchange. We do so by selling our life hour by hour for the medium of exchange.

So I find that ultimately in a fallen world where the curse of death resides. We ultimately have to trade our very life for what it takes to continue to live. We trade our life for the money it takes to buy food, the heat to keep us from freezing to death, and etc. We have to trade our life for necessity to live. So find this as part of the curse of death.

Of course the good news is for us is that this will not always be the case. As Christ has paid the price through his own life to redeem us. Also the bible serves up plenty of good instruction how we can trade our time for things of value that have a eternal value. Be it our very time we may spend sharing the Lord, communicating with our wife, doing something with our children and etc.

Or be it the money we have traded for our life. We can use that to do as the bible says, that a wise man lays up a inheritance for his children's children. As well as other Godly instruction how we can use money that represents our very life one hour at a time. How we can use it wisely so that it is far reaching, so that it still plays a role in the lives of others even after we are gone from here.

 

[Amanuensis]

Keeping it weird!

 

[Demi777]

Its written that the LOVE of money is the root of evil. Its not about money its about those who make it a idol and dont use it the way God intends

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman,

I think that your point of view is extreme.

How do you propose that believers put food on the table if they don't have jobs?

Don’t ask me, ask our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 6:25-34 KJV
25Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

 

[Runningman]

I can get where you are coming from I truly can and even see the logic you are using. However, I lean more on it is necessity born from lack. It is the state of a fallen world under a curse.

I believe first we have to identify what money really is and what it truly represents. It a medium of exchange that is widely accepted. It came to be because in a true trade and barter system what we have to trade can become valueless in the trade.

Such as we make shoes and we need nails. We go to the person who makes nails and he has no need for shoes because the ones we traded with him last month are still good. So we of course have the introduction of a system of currency where it would be gold or silver until the introduction of coined money.

So we have a universally accepted medium of exchange that can be traded with, that still carries the value of our labor or product. So while the individual we are trading with may not need our direct labor or product. He can take the medium of exchange that represents our labor or product of value and trade it for something he may need.

Money also represents our very life. All of us who have been born have been born into a fallen world. In this fallen world we are all born with the same tradeable value which is our very life. When we work a job we trade our very life for the medium of exchange. We do so by selling our life hour by hour for the medium of exchange.

So I find that ultimately in a fallen world where the curse of death resides. We ultimately have to trade our very life for what it takes to continue to live. We trade our life for the money it takes to buy food, the heat to keep us from freezing to death, and etc. We have to trade our life for necessity to live. So find this as part of the curse of death.

Of course the good news is for us is that this will not always be the case. As Christ has paid the price through his own life to redeem us. Also the bible serves up plenty of good instruction how we can trade our time for things of value that have a eternal value. Be it our very time we may spend sharing the Lord, communicating with our wife, doing something with our children and etc.

Or be it the money we have traded for our life. We can use that to do as the bible says, that a wise man lays up a inheritance for his children's children. As well as other Godly instruction how we can use money that represents our very life one hour at a time. How we can use it wisely so that it is far reaching, so that it still plays a role in the lives of others even after we are gone from here.

Amen.

Just to be clear, the Bible says not to covet anything that belongs to someone else. Each person has full liberty to decide what that means to them.

Have you considered how a cashless society is possible?

The way to not covet is for no one to own anything. You can’t covet what isn’t possessed by someone. Look at the short-lived example in Acts 4.

Acts 4:32-37
32And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
36And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, 37Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

 

[Runningman]

Let the readers decide:

1Co_12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1Co_14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Good coveting or sinful coveting?

What you just used is called a straw man argument. I am not denying there is good coveting. To prove it, I actually completely agree with your post. Yes there is such a thing as good coveting.

Now that you’ve introduced the possibility of good coveting into this discussion, I’ll use that as a segue into my next point.

Now it’s my turn: money is good coveting or bad coveting?

1 Timothy 6:9-10
9But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and intomany foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.