TONGUES is a precious gift from God

[shittim]

Good point, best wishes

 

[Aidan1]

explain what you think the gift of discernment actually is....from scripture...not what you think it is

also, how have you helped other Christians with this gift you think you have

To answer your post
Well CS1 gave in post 405 a good description from the word of God.

The second answer is a little difficult.
I dont know, it helped other Christians.
See, i am and was in churches, which are open for pentecostal/charismatic teachings, without practices them. That means they say yes, this teachings are for today, but says no for practices them. F e. speaking in tongues.
Thats strange in my eyes.
But in the same way, they ignore my warnings. Some of our leaders are very open for an RCC CHARISMATIC Preacher, who claims to be baptised with the Holy Spirit and have also the gift of speaking in tongues and also claimes that the teachings of the RCC are biblical. I told them that this cant be the Holy Spirit, because he would not teaches lies.
One sister asked me if it is ok to listen teachings of angels with extrabiblical revealations. And I told her that there is an different Spirit behind this teachings. She still is believing in this teachings.
I only can say that I could recognize if teachings where from a different Spirit.
And it seems to me that many believers have not this gift to discern the spirits.

 

[shittim]

"One sister asked me if it is ok"..... that is a red flag to me , we are all, each one of us, and every time to take it to the Lord for His guidance and not rely on our own understanding.
When we are Holy spirit filled and walking in His guidance He will confirm His truth.
Jesus told us Holy Spirit would guide us in ALL truth.

 

[Aidan1]

"One sister asked me if it is ok"..... that is a red flag to me , we are all, each one of us, and every time to take it to the Lord for His guidance and not rely on our own understanding.
When we are Holy spirit filled and walking in His guidance He will confirm His truth.
Jesus told us Holy Spirit would guide us in ALL truth.

Well, and this Red flag I have with the teaching about the baptism with the Holy Spirit amd as proof for this the gift of speaking in tongues which we find practised since 1901.
If all the gifts which we find in 1. COR. are for all the believers today. Why we cant find these gifts normaly in all churches? If this would be case, i would believe they are for today. But the fact is, that it is taught that speaking in tongues is combined with a special baptism with the Holy Spirit.
And thats why I got a Red flag.

 

[CS1]

when one says :

I have with the teaching about the baptism with the Holy Spirit and proof for this the gift of speaking in tongues which we find practiced since 1901.


This comment is false and from a bias. The 1901 "practice" was taken from Acts 1:8 Acts 2:4- 38 and 1cor chapter 12 through 14

If all the gifts which we find in 1. COR. are for all the believers today. Why we can't find these gifts normally in all churches?

Your bias prevents you from seeing it. Not all churches just like you are seeking the gifts as Paul said to do in 1Cor chapter 12

If this would be case, i would believe they are for today.
If you don't believe it until you see you never will see. AS Jesus said.

But the fact is, that it is taught that speaking in tongues is combined with a special baptism with the Holy Spirit.
And thats why I got a Red flag.

That is not true. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are tight by Paul in 1 Corinthians chapter 12. You were shown this many times yet, incapable of understanding. The gifts of tongues is not taught as combined with a special baptism with the Holy Spirit as you suggest.

YOur red flag is a Red Herring.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

That is not true. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are tight by Paul in 1 Corinthians chapter 12. You were shown this many times yet, incapable of understanding. The gifts of tongues is not taught as combined with a special baptism with the Holy Spirit as you suggest.

That simply isn't true. The gift of tongues was taught as a sign gift of the Holy Spirit and was often predicated on the day of Pentecost account. It is only in recent years that there has been a mishmash of other terms employed to escape the obvious flaw that became visible when the charismatic churches made tongue speaking a mystical gift that went beyond the pentecostal account. You must know that pastor.

 

[Aidan1]

when one says :

I have with the teaching about the baptism with the Holy Spirit and proof for this the gift of speaking in tongues which we find practiced since 1901.


This comment is false and from a bias. The 1901 "practice" was taken from Acts 1:8 Acts 2:4- 38 and 1cor chapter 12 through 14

If all the gifts which we find in 1. COR. are for all the believers today. Why we can't find these gifts normally in all churches?

Your bias prevents you from seeing it. Not all churches just like you are seeking the gifts as Paul said to do in 1Cor chapter 12

If this would be case, i would believe they are for today.
If you don't believe it until you see you never will see. AS Jesus said.

But the fact is, that it is taught that speaking in tongues is combined with a special baptism with the Holy Spirit.
And thats why I got a Red flag.

That is not true. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are tight by Paul in 1 Corinthians chapter 12. You were shown this many times yet, incapable of understanding. The gifts of tongues is not taught as combined with a special baptism with the Holy Spirit as you suggest.

YOur red flag is a Red Herring.

I dont suggest this. This teaching Was not practised before 1900. And the pentecostal movement is proud to have this Event.
And yes the teachings during the last 120 years became very moderate and became different views. But this changes not the beginning of this movement/teaching.

In the time Paul wrote to the corinthians his 1st letter, Acts was not written and finnished from Luke to Theophilus.
We obviously forget that the believers in the first time had not the privilege to read the 66 books of the bible as we can do today. They were depend to the revelations through the Holy Spirit in their meetings.

I know non of those who follows the pentecostal/ charismatic teachings will agree.
I only try to explaine why I cant believe this teachings.

 

[CS1]

"The gift of tongues was taught as a sign gift of the Holy Spirit and was often predicated on the day of Pentecost account. It is only in recent years that there has been a mishmash of other terms employed to escape the obvious flaw that became visible when the charismatic churches made tongue-speaking a mystical gift that went beyond the pentecostal account. You must know that pastor."

instead of opinions and assertion as the poster called me a "Pastor" which I do not hold to that office or position, however, I am a minister of the Gospel called by God and recognized by the local fellowship and a member of a pentacostel denomination.

But that is all not important.

What is important is what the word of God actually states on this subject and WHO SAID IT.

Start from the Top.

IN the Old Testament

God said:

" I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh". Joel 2:28 Peter quoted this in Acts 2:17

The Lord Jesus said :

John 14:17

“the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. “I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.


:26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.


Mark 16:14-18

And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Acts 1:8

“But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

The problem with the assertion that "the Holy Spirit and was often predicated on the day of Pentecost account." Is not what Pentacostel teaches. Tongues are one gift of the Holy Spirit which many are listed in 1cor chapter 12.

First off The Holy Spirit has been empowering and coming upon men throughout the Old Testament well before the day of Pentacost.
Those recorded as to have the Spirit of the Lord Come upon them in the Old Testament:

Abraham
Issac
Jacob
Joseph
Moses
Joshua
the Judges
The Prophets
The Kings
The Priest

What did they do that was supernatural?

• They prophesied
• raised the dead
• healed
• controlled the weather
• call down fire
• received superhuman strength
• foretold and forth tell by the Spirit of God
• Led to write scriptures.

The Holy Spirit came upon them

IN the New Testament Jesus who is the final authority said in the Gospel of John the Holy Spirit will be in you and come upon you. chapter 14


If you think the Disciples were saved on the day of pentacost You have a greater issue than you even know.

In John chapter 20:22

And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
Some here like to speak about my grammar yet we see here in the Verse is past-tense.

Jesus Breathed and said Receive the Holy Spirit. I believe They did receive as Jesus said for them to do.

So, if they received the Holy Spirit here, why were they told to go and wait until they receive power from on high?

That is because they had the Holy Spirit in them, but the Holy Spirit was not yet Given to come upon them, Because Jesus was still with them.

Jesus said IT IS NECESSARY that I go, if I do not go HE the Comforter will not come! John 16:7

Jesus then said HIS last words prior to the ascension


Acts 1:8

“But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Wait, what else did they need? John 20:22 said Jesus breathed on them and they received the Holy Spirit?

what other thing could they possibly need if they already had the Holy Spirit like 40 days ago from this day here in Acts chapter 1?

I would love for you to tell me what is the Gifts of the Holy Spirit for, and the empowering of the Holy Spirit for, and what does it do?

I would be very impressed if you knew that.

 

[PaulChristensen]

I would love for you to tell me what is the Gifts of the Holy Spirit for, and the empowering of the Holy Spirit for, and what does it do?

I would be very impressed if you knew that.

If you had actually read your Bible you would know. Try Ephesians 4:12.

 

[CS1]

If you had actually read your Bible you would know. Try Ephesians 4:12.

Well assume I don't know and you tell me and Eph is only one answer If you were reading past posts I and many others said that.

YOu got one now answer that last two "what is the empowering of the Holy Spirit for, and what does it do?

 

[CS1]

If you had actually read your Bible you would know. Try Ephesians 4:12.

FYI those gifts are known as the didōmi from the Greek, "the equipping gifts" which are not part of the Charismata found in 1cor chapter 12. However, they are listed in 1cor chapter 12 they are a gift type of Gift from the Holy Spirit

 

[Oblio]

Maybe there should be a forum for Christians who like arguing. Then threads like this would continue to be a blessing.
Instead of a battle ground!

 

[Combanitorics]

We’ve been given sooooo many gifts from God our Father in Heaven….speaking in tongues is just one of MANY!

It is our Father’s Will that sinners be saved and sealed, baptized and filled with His Holy Spirit and filled with the knowledge of His Word!

Tongues is NOT false but, there is a counterfeit….you’ll know the difference….No Fear!

Yeah. Being able to speak more than one language requires an amount of talent as well as considerable time to invest in learning them. I think I finally found the fundamental requirement for understanding it and getting started, it's knowing that the languages are in fact separate. I heard about it; some people really do translate languages. Glossolalia is considered different, that's just picking and choosing words to compare pronunciations of between different regional dialects. I hate those dumb charts; I've seen a bunch of them. Proof that God's name or the word for the day of rest are almost worldwide and universal. That doesn't demonstrate anything. Also, speaking in tongues isn't a good idea or a mind elevating ability. You should stick with your own ancestral language, it's inbred and natural to you.

 

[Godsgirl83]

Maybe there should be a forum for Christians who like arguing

there already is....
it's called Bible Discussion Forum.......
more affectionately referred to as BDF......
It's just to bad that nearly every (from the ones I've seen) thread, including the ones started to be blessings turn into arguing messes.

 

[CS1]

Maybe there should be a forum for Christians who like arguing. Then threads like this would continue to be a blessing.
Instead of a battle ground!

Do you have an issue with defending false narratives? I am still waiting for the Biblical questions to be answered.

 

[CS1]

Yeah. Being able to speak more than one language requires an amount of talent as well as considerable time to invest in learning them. I think I finally found the fundamental requirement for understanding it and getting started, it's knowing that the languages are in fact separate. I heard about it; some people really do translate languages. Glossolalia is considered different, that's just picking and choosing words to compare pronunciations of between different regional dialects. I hate those dumb charts; I've seen a bunch of them. Proof that God's name or the word for the day of rest are almost worldwide and universal. That doesn't demonstrate anything. Also, speaking in tongues isn't a good idea or a mind elevating ability. You should stick with your own ancestral language, it's inbred and natural to you.

that is very good as it is your opinion but it is not what the word of God said about the typic. 1cor chapter 12 through 14 if one would like just rip it out of your Bible.

 

[PaulChristensen]

After reading through the thread I found it interesting that those who oppose the modern use of the the gift of tongues and who accuse believers who pray in tongues of being deceived, even of the devil, as one quoted, out of context, that Satan can appear as an angel of light, implying that those who pray in tongues are being deceived by the devil. Another poster commented that because he doesn't speak in tongues he has a greater understanding of spiritual matters than the person who does.

It is also interesting to me that none of these opposers of tongues actually quote Scripture in context to support their views. Some don't even know what the gifts of the Spirit are for, even though the Scripture is very clear about it. What they do quote is some random experience from one or two visits to some lunatic fringe group. There is no mention of actually talking to anyone in the group to find out more information about them and why they worship God in the way they do. It is true that anyone attending a church for the first time usually finds it a different experience to what they are used to. I have always felt that when I have visited a church for the first time. It takes more than one visit to get to know people in a church.

What I think is that most of the supportive "evidence" that these people have against tongues are the unsubstantiated second-hand throw-away familiar verbal garbage and old worn-out chestnuts that people who know nothing about the gift have been spouting for all of the 50 years I have been a believer.

 

[PaulChristensen]

that is very good as it is your opinion but it is not what the word of God said about the typic. 1cor chapter 12 through 14 if one would like just rip it out of your Bible.

Maybe the guy's Bible is gathering dust on a bookshelf somewhere having never been actually read.

 

[CS1]

After reading through the thread I found it interesting that those who oppose the modern use of the the gift of tongues and who accuse believers who pray in tongues of being deceived, even of the devil, as one quoted, out of context, that Satan can appear as an angel of light, implying that those who pray in tongues are being deceived by the devil. Another poster commented that because he doesn't speak in tongues he has a greater understanding of spiritual matters than the person who does.

It is also interesting to me that none of these opposers of tongues actually quote Scripture in context to support their views. Some don't even know what the gifts of the Spirit are for, even though the Scripture is very clear about it. What they do quote is some random experience from one or two visits to some lunatic fringe group. There is no mention of actually talking to anyone in the group to find out more information about them and why they worship God in the way they do. It is true that anyone attending a church for the first time usually finds it a different experience to what they are used to. I have always felt that when I have visited a church for the first time. It takes more than one visit to get to know people in a church.

What I think is that most of the supportive "evidence" that these people have against tongues are the unsubstantiated second-hand throw-away familiar verbal garbage and old worn-out chestnuts that people who know nothing about the gift have been spouting for all of the 50 years I have been a believer.

I agree completely. There is ignorance on both sides as many have said. I have asked those who oppose the gifts of the Holy for today why are they needed and what do they do? None of them who oppose the gifts of the Holy Spirit have answered from the word of God.

 

[Oblio]

I used to think that people who fell over while being prayed for had some deep-seated psychological need for attention. I found it extremely embarrassing!
One day I walked into a church I knew nothing about. When it came time for prayer, I made sure I was last in line. Only in this church, they didn't line up single file, but side by side. Which put me on one end. Wouldn't you know it, I was the first person to get prayed for.
The guy stood in front of me, and without a word, lightly touched my shirt with his finger. I got knocked over! I was so embarrassed. I tried to get up but it was like I was a fly on flypaper! God got me good that day! Lol