The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
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)Apples to oranges.
Because the Bible 1611 KJV edition...says so. The rapture has two reasons....to save the born again believers from trib 's. savagery and a method to get us from this physical life body....to the spiritual life and body.
... meant to say, "V.2" here, and in Mk13:2, and in Lk21:5-6... along with the other passages outside of the Olivet Discourse (as well as Lk21:12-24a,_) I had also listed
Thank you for your kind response. = )
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For the readers' sakes: I had forgotten to FINISH a SENTENCE, here:
...His Subject in and throughout His Olivet Discourse (BESIDES the 12 or so verses in Lk21:12-24a_, covering "the 70ad events," which verse 12 states must come "BEFORE ALL" the beginning of BPs [which are "Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11" SAME EVENTS!-"the BoBPs"... but v.12 is saying the 70ad events must come BEFORE THOSE!] is ALL ABOUT His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY MK age;
EDIT (again... ugh): For the readers' sakes: I had forgotten to FINISH a SENTENCE, here:
...His Subject in and throughout His Olivet Discourse (BESIDES the 12 or so verses in Lk21:12-24a_, covering "the 70ad events," which verse 12 states must come "BEFORE ALL" the beginning of BPs [which are "Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11" SAME EVENTS!-"the BoBPs"... but v.12 is saying the 70ad events must come BEFORE THOSE!] is ALL ABOUT His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY MK age;
... and the specific, future, LIMITED time-period that LEADS UP TO that (aka the 7 TRIB yrs [SEALS / BEGINNING of BPs and what FOLLOWS those WITHIN THAT SPECIFIC TIME-PERIOD; i.e. when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Rev5:6, Isa3:13, etc) at the START of the 7 Trib yrs, by His OPENING the FIRST SEAL--yet future])
...His Subject in and throughout His Olivet Discourse (BESIDES the 12 or so verses in Lk21:12-24a_, covering "the 70ad events," which verse 12 states must come "BEFORE ALL" the beginning of BPs [which are "Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11" SAME EVENTS!-"the BoBPs"... but v.12 is saying the 70ad events must come BEFORE THOSE!] is ALL ABOUT His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY MK age;
... and the specific, future, LIMITED time-period that LEADS UP TO that (aka the 7 TRIB yrs [SEALS / BEGINNING of BPs and what FOLLOWS those WITHIN THAT SPECIFIC TIME-PERIOD; i.e. when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Rev5:6, Isa3:13, etc) at the START of the 7 Trib yrs, by His OPENING the FIRST SEAL--yet future])
oh boy... I told you... my flawed SPELLING is really on a roll today!!! LOL
(ugh! that EDITING TIME-LIMIT!)
.... tryin' to type too fast... to keep pace with this FAST thread... (I TYPE SLOW)
The Church is no longer on the earth by Rev 4:1.....I disagree Matthew chapter 24 covers three things asked of Jesus by the disciples, THree.
Mathre 24:3
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying,
- “Tell us, when will these things be? And
- what will be the sign of Your coming,
- and of the end of the age?”
Jesus answered them all and you must also take what Jesus said in Mark and Luke on this topic too. I am not going to go into it again as I am not trying to have you agree with me I can careless. Just know insulting those you disagree with or calling them false will not help your cause. I'm sure you did not know Jesus was asked this three qestion in Matthew chapter 24, because if you did then you would know the context of all that he said. Jesus spoke of the present, the soon coming, and the future event leading to the end of the age.
I am done with you too. Please continue to scoff
"Come up here....."
1thess 4:13 -18
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep,(dead saints) lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1cor 15:50-58
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep,(suffer physical death) but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
Now THe issue is why is the Lord going to raise the righteous dead FIRST to have them be taken up to wait for us to be taken after them to meet the Lord in the air, after the Great Tribulation to only come right back?
Those who hold to no pretrib Rapture have not answered about those who were dead prior to the coming of the Lord. Paul is doing just that. in 1Thess chapter 4 & 1cor 15:50-58
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep,(dead saints) lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1cor 15:50-58
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep,(suffer physical death) but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
Now THe issue is why is the Lord going to raise the righteous dead FIRST to have them be taken up to wait for us to be taken after them to meet the Lord in the air, after the Great Tribulation to only come right back?
Those who hold to no pretrib Rapture have not answered about those who were dead prior to the coming of the Lord. Paul is doing just that. in 1Thess chapter 4 & 1cor 15:50-58
What's to Answer?
Christ explained in Matthew 24, [after] Tribulation, He Returns and Gathers [there is NOTHING that states the Gathering does not include both Dead and Alive].
Paul in 2nd Thess, explains the process of how Both Dead and Alive are Rapture'd
Christ lays the outline.
Paul fills in the Specifics.
The Second Coming is the Rapture!
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
^
Nowhere does is mention these are all Alive Elect, it just states Gather His Elect [that could mean both Dead and Alive]
Then obey God and keep your oil vessel filled.
Or miss it as you pointed out.
However, you are oblivious that we are talking about the rapture being pretrib, which for unknown reasons you oppose.
If you reject noah and lot as being prejudgement removal dynamics, that MEANS you automatically hold to them being a postjudgement removal.
( as you are unsuccessfully showing us).
By dodging and diverting, you are stuck in circular reasoning.
Are you hoping for some abstract agreement of " oh wow, you are right. How silly of me to think lot and noah were not delivered postjudgement"
Remember you accused me falsely of a depraved mind , or some such thing?
We can all see the karma is on you.
Lol
Ok. Play it out.
Postribs position is the rapture at the white horses.
Psssst....they never see heaven.
You know, where your " superior translation" places them.
Too funny!!!!!
...yes we " discussed" it.
All the facts i previously pointed out, are of course, omitted.
You keep doing that.
Very dishonest.
Sad actually.
YOU POSTRIBBERS CAN NOT SEE THAT?????
You really believe that we never see heaven.
You bring that ridiculous assertion to the debate??????
Christ explained in Matthew 24, [after] Tribulation, He Returns and Gathers [there is NOTHING that states the Gathering does not include both Dead and Alive].
Paul in 2nd Thess, explains the process of how Both Dead and Alive are Rapture'd
Christ lays the outline.
Paul fills in the Specifics.
The Second Coming is the Rapture!
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
^
Nowhere does it mention these are all Alive Elect, it just states Gather His Elect [that could mean both Dead and Alive]
SHOW ME WHERE CHRIST IN MATTHEW 24 SPEAKS OF HIS SECOND COMING THAT THE ELECT HE GATHERS IS 100% ALIVE, AND NOT THE RAPTURE, WHERE HE GATHERS HIS ELECT BOTH DEAD AND ALIVE?
Paul in 2nd Thess, explains the process of how Both Dead and Alive are Rapture'd
Christ lays the outline.
Paul fills in the Specifics.
The Second Coming is the Rapture!
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
^
Nowhere does it mention these are all Alive Elect, it just states Gather His Elect [that could mean both Dead and Alive]
SHOW ME WHERE CHRIST IN MATTHEW 24 SPEAKS OF HIS SECOND COMING THAT THE ELECT HE GATHERS IS 100% ALIVE, AND NOT THE RAPTURE, WHERE HE GATHERS HIS ELECT BOTH DEAD AND ALIVE?
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