My friend, however you view it, not to commit sin is to perfectly adhere to the letter the bible says kills
Galatians Discussion
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What in your view is the Spirit of the law, how does it differ from the letter of the law?
The question is, do you ever commit sin?
It can only be answered by saying that I know that I do not have to commit sin in the future; because it remains to be seen whether I will commit sin in the future or not.
I think that if your question is, Do you ever violate the letter of the law? Then I would have to say yes.
However, I have been delivered from the law so that I might walk in newness of spirit rather than the oldness of the letter (Romans 7:6).
If you ask, Do you ever violate the spirit of the law, my answer would be that I don't inasmuch as I walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.
I believe that this is the biblical answer.
Walking according to the Spirit rather than the flesh (see Galatians 5:16-24).
Then according to the biblical definition of sin, you commit sin, and you will therefore continue to commit sin in some form or another. You need to discern all scripture, not just quote the letter of it, big difference
Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess Deut 30:11-16
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
2Cor3:6-9
Moses said it would not be too difficult or beyond the reach of the Israelites to obey the law handed down at Sanai. However, Paul stated the letter killed and was the ministry of death and condemnation. Why the difference between the two?
In my view, Moses was speaking of the Spirit of the law, and Paul the letter of the law. It is impossible for man to perfectly obey the letter of ‘’thou shalt not’’ There is no wiggle room for error. Perfectly obey the law or stand guilty before it. If even one person could have perfectly obeyed the letter there would have been no need for Christ to die at Calvary for peoples sins, for it would have been possible for man never to commit sin. Paul had been an ardent Pharisee, the letter of the law was everything.
I believe Moses was speaking of the Spirit of the law, in respect that the people should in their hearts want to follow the law. But though they would want to follow it and their lives would generally reflect obedience to it, they never would perfectly obey the law/the letter of the law due to human limitations. That should not be so difficult to do, for the limitations of man are allowed for. That in my view is the difference between the letter of the law and the Spirit of the law
I believe that what is written in 1 John 3:9 concerns the biblical definition of sin in Romans 7:6.
Really, I'm afraid you are all over the place here. The biblical definition of sin is transgression of the law, the transgression of ''Thou shalt not''
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
Pray for discernment
Paul relentlessly states the believer can have no righteousness/justification of obeying the law. All would agree the believer is saved under a righteousness of faith in Christ. But, how do you avoid placing the believer, in effect, back under a righteousness of obeying the law once saved?
If you tell a believer, once they are saved they will not commit sin, for that is disobedience and not following after the Spirit, what, in reality will a believer hinge their hope of Heaven on/their continued righteousness on? Faith in Christ, or obeying the law? Inevitably a believer will focus on what determines their continued salvation. It cannot be two things, faith in Christ and obeying the law, there has to be a bottom line. So, if the believer believes they can only remain in a saved state/righteous before God if they do not commit sin, they will inevitably focus upon a righteousness of obeying the law. That’s the real world. It doesn’t matter how skilfully you try and explain the bible to say otherwise, the reality is, it is true.
A Christian counsellor in the states once told me, half the sex offenders in the states had at one time or another been to what he described as ‘’holiness’’ churches. It is not that hard to believe, if(if) we understand the message written down. You see, some people are completely trustworthy, sincere, and in humility do not seek to excuse, or deny their faults. If they are told a believer cannot commit sin and remain justified before God, they will fully believe it, and in reality live under a righteousness of perfectly obeying the law. I have spoken to many Christian counsellors who told me they have had so many come to them who have ended up in the mess Saul the Pharisee ended up in in Romans chapter seven. One called it, ‘’spiritual abuse’’ It is actually far worse now than when Saul suffered his torment for the law is under the new covenant within believers, and there is no hiding from it.
And yes, you can quote the letter of the bible and crush the sincere with a hypocritical message that you yourself fail to live up to, the Pharisees constantly did it in Jesus day when rigidly quoting the letter of the then scriptures. It was a heartless message they preached, devoid of the great love, mercy and compassion of God, for they neglected the love of God(Luke11:42). Nigh on perfectly obey the law or you are condemned. The same sadly, often happens today as well. A slightly different message but in effect a heartless and cruel one. ‘’You must ceaselessly, every moment of your life follow after the Holy Spirit then you will not commit sin, if you do commit sin you are in rebellion against God and can no longer remain in a justified, or saved state.’’
Same as the pharisees message in essence. They did not practiced what they preached, neither does anyone else who states every moment of their lives they follow after the Holy Spirit. For no one perfectly follows the message. Not me nor anyone else. We all rely on the great love, mercy and compassion of God to remain saved. Of course, the Pharisees loved the praise of men more than the praise of God, so they liked to make out they were far holier than they were. So they demanded of others what they did not demand of themselves. History keeps repeating itself
If you tell a believer, once they are saved they will not commit sin, for that is disobedience and not following after the Spirit, what, in reality will a believer hinge their hope of Heaven on/their continued righteousness on? Faith in Christ, or obeying the law? Inevitably a believer will focus on what determines their continued salvation. It cannot be two things, faith in Christ and obeying the law, there has to be a bottom line. So, if the believer believes they can only remain in a saved state/righteous before God if they do not commit sin, they will inevitably focus upon a righteousness of obeying the law. That’s the real world. It doesn’t matter how skilfully you try and explain the bible to say otherwise, the reality is, it is true.
A Christian counsellor in the states once told me, half the sex offenders in the states had at one time or another been to what he described as ‘’holiness’’ churches. It is not that hard to believe, if(if) we understand the message written down. You see, some people are completely trustworthy, sincere, and in humility do not seek to excuse, or deny their faults. If they are told a believer cannot commit sin and remain justified before God, they will fully believe it, and in reality live under a righteousness of perfectly obeying the law. I have spoken to many Christian counsellors who told me they have had so many come to them who have ended up in the mess Saul the Pharisee ended up in in Romans chapter seven. One called it, ‘’spiritual abuse’’ It is actually far worse now than when Saul suffered his torment for the law is under the new covenant within believers, and there is no hiding from it.
And yes, you can quote the letter of the bible and crush the sincere with a hypocritical message that you yourself fail to live up to, the Pharisees constantly did it in Jesus day when rigidly quoting the letter of the then scriptures. It was a heartless message they preached, devoid of the great love, mercy and compassion of God, for they neglected the love of God(Luke11:42). Nigh on perfectly obey the law or you are condemned. The same sadly, often happens today as well. A slightly different message but in effect a heartless and cruel one. ‘’You must ceaselessly, every moment of your life follow after the Holy Spirit then you will not commit sin, if you do commit sin you are in rebellion against God and can no longer remain in a justified, or saved state.’’
Same as the pharisees message in essence. They did not practiced what they preached, neither does anyone else who states every moment of their lives they follow after the Holy Spirit. For no one perfectly follows the message. Not me nor anyone else. We all rely on the great love, mercy and compassion of God to remain saved. Of course, the Pharisees loved the praise of men more than the praise of God, so they liked to make out they were far holier than they were. So they demanded of others what they did not demand of themselves. History keeps repeating itself
That is ONE definition of sin
Its not the only definition. Jesus showed this in his sermon on the mount
Amen
This is exactly why so many christians in a legalistic church end up leaving, They realise they can not live up to the standard imposed on them. And why bother even trying any more.
Instead of being discipled and loved. They are judged and seperated from
Jesus came along side sinners and loved them and healed them, he did not push them away and judge them.
we have to hear it before we can discuss and understand it I think it’s important to see what’s actually there and then we are able to discuss it
All very true. At the same time Jesus set very high standards for Christians. You should not fail to point that out.
doesn’t scripture like this sort of press one into living out the faith ?
I agree with you that righteousness is of faith alone but see this makes our faith grow in capacity
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”
1 John 3:7-8 KJV
that’s meant to push us into righteousness there’s a lot like that we need to hear sin it can shape our faith it’s not meant to condemn us but to give us conviction against committing sin
the more we come to those types of things Is Gods word working in us to change our Will and actions
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Do all things without murmurings and disputings: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;”
Philippians 2:12-15 KJV
we’re saved by grace not works…..but the rest of its all true also we’re being changed and led into a better life
“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”
1 John 3:4 KJV
“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:20 KJV
“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.”
Romans 7:5 KJV
“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.”
Romans 7:7 KJV
“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
Romans 3:21-23 KJV
The law defines sin and it’s consequence of death , the gospel teaches and imparts the righteousness of God with remission of sins
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
Romans 1:16-17 KJV
“But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:11-
the New Testament is made of faith
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
And saves those who accept and believe
What Christ has presented
“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
James 1:21-22 KJV
the ot gives understanding of sin and death the New Testament gives the knowledge of God and eternal
Life
“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
1 John 5:20 KJV