TONGUES is a precious gift from God

[ResidentAlien]

Funny thing though....
when I check my blood pressure after spending to much time it BDF it no longer shows numbers.
My bp machine has developed the ability to communicate with words.
Now instead of numbers it reads:

I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN IN BDF
STAY OUT OF BDF

then turns back to numbers

Perhaps you should reconsider the value of the ignore button.

 

[Godsgirl83]

Perhaps you should reconsider the value of the ignore button.

yeah, but if I did that then there would be almost no BDF to read ............
It would look like this:

see, no holes in SYM

 

[shittim]

I like swiss....... Great to see you GG

 

[Heaven_Bound]

So if someone attends a church, as I did once, where someone spoke in a tongue and another gave the interpretation, are you saying that's fake? They're not speaking only to God but to the whole congregation via a translator.

Without being there to witness it myself, if One Person Speaks in Tongues and Another Person Interprets, that is according to how Paul explained it should happen within a Church Body.

My statement, was towards the Video of Copeland and Brown. They make it seem like they can UNDERSTAND what each other is saying and continue having a complete conversation. I believe that is not only Fake, but it was Staged before hand. And that is Not how Paul explains it.

 

[1ofthem]

Thank you.
Funny thing though....
when I check my blood pressure after spending to much time it BDF it no longer shows numbers.
My bp machine has developed the ability to communicate with words.
Now instead of numbers it reads:

I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN IN BDF
STAY OUT OF BDF

then turns back to numbers

Tell me about it! Lol

Maybe the BDF should come with a medical warning.

 

[shittim]

His Own walk in love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness and self control.
That isn't what comes to my mind as I glimpsed that.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Without being there to witness it myself, if One Person Speaks in Tongues and Another Person Interprets, that is according to how Paul explained it should happen within a Church Body.

My statement, was towards the Video of Copeland and Brown. They make it seem like they can UNDERSTAND what each other is saying and continue having a complete conversation. I believe that is not only Fake, but it was Staged before hand. And that is Not how Paul explains it.

Okay, so let me see if I've got this. The only way to use tongues correctly is either to speak directly to God in tongues, or to speak in tongues in the assembly according to scriptural guidelines.

Now, you said you'd have to be there to witness it, which means even if tongues is used correctly they still may be true or false. According to this view, we can rule out correct use of tongues as a means of knowing if they're true or false. So we're back to square one: how do we know if the sounds coming out of a person's mouth are from the Spirit or from the person?

There doesn't seem to be any objective way to say if tongues are true or false. As I posted before: no one will admit that the "tongue" they speak is false. It comes down to my word against his.

 

[wattie]

Looking at scripture the 'private prayer language' of the gift of tongues isn't there either.

When Paul was talking about this he was speaking in hypotheticals and hyperbole. Not as in the way it's meant to be done. Acts 2 is the clearest example.. Corinthians church had it mixed up with paganism

 

[TheLearner]

I agree it would have been a simple matter to have posted the entire clip and resisted the clip I did post - but as you say I wanted to post the one I did because the babes demonstrate a point I was making to the person I was writing to. I also agree that the candle comment was unfortunate - yet I posted the video despite believing that it would be.a simple matter for others to question my own faith given my acknowledgement earlier that I was once a Satanist. As a matter of accuracy I was an occult theosopher with satanic predications. But that scarcely seems to matter.

You appear to need to express your thoughts and at the same time to make it impossible for me to make any response because your entire comment is littered with snares. Inferentially if I don't humble myself and be silent - then I am proud. If I do respond and you do not reply - then I am offended according to you - and you question my motive in a precept of citing Satan. Then you tell me that I don't cite Scripture by posting a single line from a comment I made @#522. Why decontextualise what I have said when what I said explains why I wasn't citing Scripture to an unbeliever in trying to address his original question? Why?

So just to make amends here is the standing in ministry and Academia of the brother who's video I did post which you found so doubtful:

- 4 years in the U.S. Coast Guard - B.A. - (Missions and Bible) Assemblies of God - M.A. - Cross Cultural Studies - Fuller Graduate School - M.Div. - North Park Seminary - 3 months - Haiti - 1 year - Missionary in Brussels, Belgium, learning French - Bon Jour! - 3 years - Missionary in the Democratic Republic of the Congo teaching in Seminary and Bible College, Evangelism and getting tropical diseases and learning Lingala - 10 years - 2 Evangelical Covenant Churches (Sr. Pastor) - 1 class - professor in Charismatic non accredited college - 1 year - Adjunct Professor (AG University) - teaching Cults and Denominations and Apologetics - 2 years - Adjunct Professor (Evangelical University) - Philosophy Department (Ethics) - 20 years - Adjunct Professor (Another Evangelical University) - 17 different subjects in ministry, missions, theology, ethics, church history,

And here is the clip you express exasperation to - in isolation:

And here is the sweet babes in isolation:

So I guess that the only bit missing is the linguistic meaning alluded to and verbally stated by a pastor and academic professor - which was of course the predicative clausal meaning expressed in clear terms by the original poster to whom I was responding.

Have a great day sister.

They are destined to be Charlie brown's teachers.

 

[TheLearner]

nap time for me

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Okay, so let me see if I've got this. The only way to use tongues correctly is either to speak directly to God in tongues, or to speak in tongues in the assembly according to scriptural guidelines.

Now, you said you'd have to be there to witness it, which means even if tongues is used correctly they still may be true or false. According to this view, we can rule out correct use of tongues as a means of knowing if they're true or false. So we're back to square one: how do we know if the sounds coming out of a person's mouth are from the Spirit or from the person?

There doesn't seem to be any objective way to say if tongues are true or false. As I posted before: no one will admit that the "tongue" they speak is false. It comes down to my word against his.

You have read the Bible. Paul said he spoke in Tongues more than anyone else and wished everyone spoke in Tongues the same. Clearly, Paul traveled between setting up the 7 Churches we read in Revelation 1-3, he was in jail a lot, he made tents for money. Paul, obviously spoke in Tongues in all of these things we know about him.

But in a Church setting, Paul, clarifies there are rules to when Tongues and Interpretation take place. And those rules are that One Person Speaks in Tongues, and at least One other Person Interprets and possible as 3 other Person's interpret.

So just by reading everything Paul writes about Tongues, we can see the different times when he Spoke in Tongues, and we can see there is a difference between personal prayer in Tongues and when Tongues and Interpretation happens within a Church Body.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

He took that way too far. Over and beyond the context and twisted your post.

People sometimes do that here. They try to look superior to others in any way they can whether it be intellectually, morally, etc.

In doing so, he just made himself look like a thoughtless moron with no commonsense.

I'm sure most of us understood your point. The ones that know you know what an intelligent, wise, kind, and caring person you are.

You are a benefit to this site, and it is nice to see you posting in the BDF. They need more like you posting on this forum.

I didn't take it too far. I simply stated a reality. Remove yourselves from emotional flesh and start embracing the Cross unto death.

The direction of what I said to that sister was not a pejorative insult - it was a rational and real fact that when a person utilises her own child's learning disability to emphasis the supposed poor intelligence of another person then that is a poor spirit. If that is not understood then there is little to say to that. Like I said before to that sister, all these inclinations to demean others by whatever inference that term can implicate are predicated on self interest because they are wrongly thought to be a valid response when challenged. A person cannot say of themselves in this thread that they were saved in prison - that they went to a special need residential school for seven years and simultaneously be boasting when they post intelligent comments for another poster who is an unbeliever. That is all I have done. Whether I have made a fool of myself seems to be a small thing. I knew that I would be trampled under foot and cast aside before I posted a single word.

It is of no real concern to me. So uphold those who are too proud to acknowledge the mistake they have made if you wish. This thread is full of them. That sister says she will go and read the thread again - having set my posts to be ignored - but it is not possible to ignore that others will read these things and make their own mind up. I hope that they set me aside first. Then they can see what an unbeliever and believers receive when they will not yield to the flesh of others who have developed a practised method of making their own flesh seem like a sweet smelling aroma.

You say that you are sure that most of the threads' posters understood her point when she utilised the damaged mind of a child to garner an insult with determination. I think that you are simply playing with words. We serve Christ - not the flesh.

 

[1ofthem]

I didn't take it too far. I simply stated a reality. Remove yourselves from emotional flesh and start embracing the Cross unto death.

The direction of what I said to that sister was not a pejorative insult - it was a rational and real fact that when a person utilises her own child's learning disability to emphasis the supposed poor intelligence of another person then that is a poor spirit. If that is not understood then there is little to say to that. Like I said before to that sister, all these inclinations to demean others by whatever inference that term can implicate are predicated on self interest because they are wrongly thought to be a valid response when challenged. A person cannot say of themselves in this thread that they were saved in prison - that they went to a special need residential school for seven years and simultaneously be boasting when they post intelligent comments for another poster who is an unbeliever. That is all I have done. Whether I have made a fool of myself seems to be a small thing. I knew that I would be trampled under foot and cast aside before I posted a single word.

It is of no real concern to me. So uphold those who are too proud to acknowledge the mistake they have made if you wish. This thread is full of them. That sister says she will go and read the thread again - having set my posts to be ignored - but it is not possible to ignore that others will read these things and make their own mind up. I hope that they set me aside first. Then they can see what an unbeliever and believers receive when they will not yield to the flesh of others who have developed a practised method of making their own flesh seem like a sweet smelling aroma.

You say that you are sure that most of the threads' posters understood her point when she utilised the damaged mind of a child to garner an insult with determination. I think that you are simply playing with words. We serve Christ - not the flesh.

I think you are being too emotional and sensitive.

We all need to weigh our words in these discussions (me included). We are called to show forth the love of Christ not to bite and devour and try to one up each other any way we can.

If not, careful people sometimes resort to making snap judgements and mischaracterization of others to try to discredit them and show ourselves as somehow superior.

I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not but that is exactly how your posts are coming off to me.

First to her and now to me. I can assure you I'm not engaging in any type of word play here. Hope I'm making myself clear and it is evident.

To be honest, I have not read much of your posts. I don't have you on ignore and actually have never placed anyone on ignore in the past no matter how much I disagreed with them.

I try to give everyone the benefit of a doubt because we all have bad days and good days.

Anyways, maybe we can drop all the characterizations and go back to discussing the scriptures.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I think you are being too emotional and sensitive.

We all need to weigh our words in these discussions (me included). We are called to show forth the love of Christ not to bite and devour and try to one up each other any way we can.

If not, careful people sometimes resort to making snap judgements and mischaracterization of others to try to discredit them and show ourselves as somehow superior.

I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not but that is exactly how your posts are coming off to me.

First to her and now to me. I can assure you I'm not engaging in any type of word play here. Hope I'm making myself clear and it is evident.

To be honest, I have not read much of your posts. I don't have you on ignore and actually have never placed anyone on ignore in the past no matter how much I disagreed with them.

I try to give everyone the benefit of a doubt because we all have bad days and good days.

Anyways, maybe we can drop all the characterizations and go back to discussing the scriptures.

My posts in this thread are visible. Anyone who wants to read them can do so and make their own judgement.

Your own few posts are also visible and so as to whether you gave anyone the doubt remains a simple matter of reading them.

As to my alleged emotions and sensitivity - which is a psychological claim - I work in metal health services for my keep and in the realm of learning disability where I advocate for those who are almost entirely bereft of cogency due to neurological trauma from birth. I know what emotional empathetic intelligence is and when it is misplaced.

Try being rational and taking my words for what they mean rather than advocating for a narrative of psychological soup after asserting that we are to love one another and not bite and devour one another.

I weigh my words and so I stand by what I have said irregardless as to whether I am perceived to have mischaracterised others when I state a singularly obvious fact. Instead of directing what I mean by looking back at another's well being as you perceive it - try looking ahead and seeing what has been said without an emotional charge when it is said. This thread is all about a gift of God. That gift is in the power of the Holy Spirit - so walk in the Spirit and you will have no need to explain anything to this man.

We all need to weigh our words in these discussions (me included). We are called to show forth the love of Christ not to bite and devour and try to one up each other any way we can.

If not, careful people sometimes resort to making snap judgements and mischaracterization of others to try to discredit them and show ourselves as somehow superior.

If you explain this in red element of your post in terms that do not inflect entirely upon this man then do so. If you are inclined to say that it is a dual meaning then which part of the schism should I take for myself? Otherwise stop making games with words. It won't work with me. Thank You.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

They are destined to be Charlie brown's teachers.

I had to Goggle that to find the clip. I have never watched any Charlie Brown. That made me laugh. I spend half of my life making incomprehensible sounds in my work - and as is so often the case in Mental Health - the staff end up slightly barmy. Making people laugh in a healthy way is a gift - even if the narrative makes you sound like a mad man. Tongues in the churches? Nothing but problems. In Mental Health - a real treat and a theatre of the most implausible body language that makes the two babes seem entirely sane - even if you are babbling for effect. Appreciation is the hall mark of a good outcome - and not necessarily the hall mark of sanity.

 

[wattie]

I had to Goggle that to find the clip. I have never watched any Charlie Brown. That made me laugh. I spend half of my life making incomprehensible sounds in my work - and as is so often the case in Mental Health - the staff end up slightly barmy. Making people laugh in a healthy way is a gift - even if the narrative makes you sound like a mad man. Tongues in the churches? Nothing but problems. In Mental Health - a real treat and a theatre of the most implausible body language that makes the two babes seem entirely sane - even if you are babbling for effect. Appreciation is the hall mark of a good outcome - and not necessarily the hall mark of sanity.

I've worked in intellectual disability and volunteered in mental health support work. I've also tried New Age type beliefs.

Most of what I've seen for tongue speaking is akin to ecstatic utterances and not much to do with the biblical examples at all.

My brother has gotten into charismatic beliefs and it is harming rather than helping the serious depression he had in my opinion.

I admit I am a cessationist, but if someone is going to speak in tongues at least itd be great if they did it with a sound mind and by the biblical examples.

 

[CS1]

I've worked in intellectual disability and volunteered in mental health support work. I've also tried New Age type beliefs.

Most of what I've seen for tongue speaking is akin to ecstatic utterances and not much to do with the biblical examples at all.

My brother has gotten into charismatic beliefs and it is harming rather than helping the serious depression he had in my opinion.

I admit I am a cessationist, but if someone is going to speak in tongues at least itd be great if they did it with a sound mind and by the biblical examples.

So those with disabilities can't be filled with the Holy Spirit now? again I would love for those who use medical terms and secular humanism to discern scripture would use scripture to prove the point of where personal experiences mine or yours do not make the word of God to no effect because you have not authenticated the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I've worked in intellectual disability and volunteered in mental health support work. I've also tried New Age type beliefs.

Most of what I've seen for tongue speaking is akin to ecstatic utterances and not much to do with the biblical examples at all.

My brother has gotten into charismatic beliefs and it is harming rather than helping the serious depression he had in my opinion.

I admit I am a cessationist, but if someone is going to speak in tongues at least itd be great if they did it with a sound mind and by the biblical examples.

I understand your point entirely. I am not a cessationist but I do understand what you are asking - as it were.

Well I suppose that I ought to say that the comment at @#577 to your post is NOT mistaken with regard to the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the likelihood that a person with a pathological and clinical mental health condition would be excluded from benefitting and receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It is also conditionally true that the likelihood of a formal insight or clinical understanding of mental health does NOT form a basis for evaluating spiritual gifts. But could I make a suggestion please? Begin a thread in an appropriate section of the forum and entitle it something along the lines of Mental Health and Spiritual Gifts. Then flag me into the first comment which could be a modified replica of the one you have made here to myself now.

I can give you some encouragement and some formal insights to what you have stated as a concern for your brother as well as the new age reference with the likely inference to poor spiritual influences arising out of ecstatic precepts. There is no possibility of trying to respectfully answer you or even hope for some insights myself in this thread. There is no guarantee that other posters won't take a view of the new thread if you make one and want to make their own comments - but at least it will be directed appropriately by your own determination to raise the points you have made here. God Bless.

 

[1ofthem]

My posts in this thread are visible. Anyone who wants to read them can do so and make their own judgement.

Your own few posts are also visible and so as to whether you gave anyone the doubt remains a simple matter of reading them.

As to my alleged emotions and sensitivity - which is a psychological claim - I work in metal health services for my keep and in the realm of learning disability where I advocate for those who are almost entirely bereft of cogency due to neurological trauma from birth. I know what emotional empathetic intelligence is and when it is misplaced.

Try being rational and taking my words for what they mean rather than advocating for a narrative of psychological soup after asserting that we are to love one another and not bite and devour one another.

I weigh my words and so I stand by what I have said irregardless as to whether I am perceived to have mischaracterised others when I state a singularly obvious fact. Instead of directing what I mean by looking back at another's well being as you perceive it - try looking ahead and seeing what has been said without an emotional charge when it is said. This thread is all about a gift of God. That gift is in the power of the Holy Spirit - so walk in the Spirit and you will have no need to explain anything to this man.



If you explain this in red element of your post in terms that do not inflect entirely upon this man then do so. If you are inclined to say that it is a dual meaning then which part of the schism should I take for myself? Otherwise stop making games with words. It won't work with me. Thank You.

It's all about winning...isn't it?

Okay then, whatever dude.

Have it your way.

You win.

You feel better now?

 

[Oblio]

It's all about winning...isn't it?

Okay then, whatever dude.

Have it your way.

You win.

You feel better now?

S0...how about those ten lost tribes? Lol