The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[cv5]

I realize this response comes late but have been very busy.

You keep saying that there is no mention of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture in Revelation. However, we have it implied in the following:

Rev_3:10 Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

1) I will keep thee from the hour of trial - "KEEP", in the Greek, means to "withhold from" or "protect". This could be construed as meaning to "keep one safe in the midst of" but it is followed by the Greek preposition "ek", which means "out of" or "out from"

2) Which is to come - proves the "trial" is still future.

3) Upon the whole world - Shows the extent of this trial. No local trials can be thought of as filling this statement. The use of such prophetic language as: "upon the whole world", can only mean the "Great Tribulation" time period because it is to "try them that dwell on the Earth.

It should be noted here, that in the first part of this verse, it states: "Because thou didst keep the word of my patience..." The word "because" takes us back to what was previously said and the words "did keep", are not in the present tense, they are in the past tense. So the Lord speaks as if their faithfulness was a "done deal". Therefore, He wants them to see that his promise is also a done deal and fully reliable, while it's completion is yet future.

In conclusion, this verse proves that a group of saved people (The True Assembly), are being contrasted with those that "dwell on the earth" Additionally, this contrast is between those who will be "kept from" the hour of trial and those who will not. The purpose of this "hour of trial", is to test those who still dwell on the earth. There is no reason to believe that the Assembly, which Christ is building, will go through this "hour of trial", when none of it's former members, who are a part of the assembly, ever had such a trial. Why would the Lord, try the later Saints, in this manner? God is pouring out His Wrath upon the World. He has appointed 144,000 to be His witness during the Tribulation days. Why does the Assembly need to be present and if it is, then why the 144,000? Also, why is the focus so heavily upon Israel?

Indeed. At the rapture the mandate of the Church to preach is completed. The eschatological gears are switched and Israel once again becomes God's instrument of preaching. Which of course concatenates perfectly with foregoing prophecy.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Could you point me to any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven?

Excuse me, but no, they haven't. EVER. I keep asking for at least one, but I've NEVER seen any.

This is a promise of a reward for faithfulness. Same thing is taught in 2 Tim 2:12.

See? Just what I said. I keep asking for verses showing Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, and I get this instead.

If these are the best verses you think show Jesus taking people to heaven, then I know there aren't any. Which I already knew.

Here is a good verse for you.....

Matt 13:11
He answered and said to them, "because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it has not been given."

Interested in why you shared this verse. What is your point?

My inquiry was regarding any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, and you quote Matt 13:11.

That verse is in the context of Jesus teaching the masses by parable. In v.11, Jesus was telling His disciples that He was the Source for understanding the parables. Because He was there to explain the parables to them.

I know some will use a parable to defend a pretrib rapture, but since ALL parables MUST be explained by Jesus Himself, since they are HIS alone, neither you nor I have any right to "explain" His parables.

When human beings explain a parable, they can basically come up with anything, and who's to argue?

However, since the Bible does NOT show Jesus taking people to heaven, there is no reason to believe that He will.

 

[DavidTree]

I realize this response comes late but have been very busy.

You keep saying that there is no mention of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture in Revelation. However, we have it implied in the following:

Rev_3:10 Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

1) I will keep thee from the hour of trial - "KEEP", in the Greek, means to "withhold from" or "protect". This could be construed as meaning to "keep one safe in the midst of" but it is followed by the Greek preposition "ek", which means "out of" or "out from"

2) Which is to come - proves the "trial" is still future.

3) Upon the whole world - Shows the extent of this trial. No local trials can be thought of as filling this statement. The use of such prophetic language as: "upon the whole world", can only mean the "Great Tribulation" time period because it is to "try them that dwell on the Earth.

It should be noted here, that in the first part of this verse, it states: "Because thou didst keep the word of my patience..." The word "because" takes us back to what was previously said and the words "did keep", are not in the present tense, they are in the past tense. So the Lord speaks as if their faithfulness was a "done deal". Therefore, He wants them to see that his promise is also a done deal and fully reliable, while it's completion is yet future.

In conclusion, this verse proves that a group of saved people (The True Assembly), are being contrasted with those that "dwell on the earth" Additionally, this contrast is between those who will be "kept from" the hour of trial and those who will not. The purpose of this "hour of trial", is to test those who still dwell on the earth. There is no reason to believe that the Assembly, which Christ is building, will go through this "hour of trial", when none of it's former members, who are a part of the assembly, ever had such a trial. Why would the Lord, try the later Saints, in this manner? God is pouring out His Wrath upon the World. He has appointed 144,000 to be His witness during the Tribulation days. Why does the Assembly need to be present and if it is, then why the 144,000? Also, why is the focus so heavily upon Israel?

i FULLY AGREEEEEEEE with every word of Revelation including Rev 3:10

However, this does not, in any way imply, a rapture AND it cannot imply one since the LORD never promised a pre-trib rapture to anyone.

It is a Promise for the LORD to those who persevere in His Word and Spirit. Just as those Saints keep themselves unspotted from the world, the LORD will keep them, as promised, from the hour of testing/temptaion.

Do a study on this - Peace

 

[ewq1938]

"...the churchES" are made up of both those who are actually saved believers, AND of those who come in His name but who are not actually vitally connected with Christ (i.e. are not actually saved).

Perhaps it's *you* that needs all that (what I've pointed out) to be "changed"... to fit your "only WORTHY Christians are RAPTURED" narrative.

You are one saying the people of 7 churches aren't saved. That's false.

 

[Marilyn]

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

The throne in this verse is not heaven or a throne in heaven. It's the Earthly throne. I already explained why and how.

You said in reference to my scripture Rev. 3: 21.

`All those letters have something like that addressing the reward overcomers receive so the throne is a reference to the Earthly thrown of eternity:

Rev_22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:`

I see your thinking however the Body of Christ has been promised a heavenly inheritance.

Our inheritance, our hope, our place, our citizenship, all of which are IN HEAVEN.

`...to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you.` (1 Peter 1: 4 )

` ...because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of truth..`(Col. 1: 5)

` ...and raised us up together and made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.`(Eph. 2: 6)

` For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly await for the saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.` (Phil. 3: 20)

(New King James)

 

[ewq1938]

You said in reference to my scripture Rev. 3: 21.

`All those letters have something like that addressing the reward overcomers receive so the throne is a reference to the Earthly thrown of eternity:

Rev_22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:`

I see your thinking however the Body of Christ has been promised a heavenly inheritance.

Our inheritance, our hope, our place, our citizenship, all of which are IN HEAVEN.

`...to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you.` (1 Peter 1: 4 )

` ...because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of truth..`(Col. 1: 5)

` ...and raised us up together and made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.`(Eph. 2: 6)

` For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly await for the saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.` (Phil. 3: 20)

(New King James)

That's only until second coming, then it is Earth which becomes a permanent home.

Heaven will remain where it is but eternity is spent upon the Earth and The Father and Son will be upon the Earth as well. That doesn't mean no one can go to heaven during the eternity but the primary home will be the Earth according to various scriptures. Rev 21-22 indicate this but there are other scriptures as well. Basically heaven is a temporary place for God and the angels and the spirits of the dead. Eventually all will inhabit the Earth.

1Ch_23:25 For David said, The LORD God of Israel hath given rest unto his people, that they may dwell in Jerusalem for ever:

Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Psa_37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

Psa_37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Psa_37:22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.

Mat_5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Job_19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.



It is not man who will go to heaven to dwell with the Father and Jesus in the eternity but the Father and Jesus dwelling with Man upon the new Earth!

Heaven is the temporary dwelling place for God, angels and the spirits of the dead saints. The eternal home for all is the new Earth.

 

[Absolutely]

I think I can help you out Abs.
Regarding the parable of the 10 virgins:

The Groom has already come as a thief and snatched his Bride away to his Father's house. The rapture has already happened. The bride and groom are now at the Father's house for a seven day honeymoon.

These 10 virgins do NOT accompany the Bride and Groom back to the Father's house. There is a time delay as word gets around the villiage and these 10 bridesmaids DISCOVER that the Bride has been snatched away. Their job however is to go around the village and announce to everyone the wedding (banquet supper festivities) is coming.

Matthew 25:1 "Then" aka "At that time".......what time?
The time of the tribulation Jesus has just laid out in the Olivet discourse.

Hope that helps. I get just as confused about this parable as anyone else and I finally hit on some good information. Opinions vary but I think this is the best answer to all the outstanding questions.

Jesus describes it as the rapture

Mat 25
"13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."

Without a doubt it is the rapture.

 

[Absolutely]

Again... take a look at my posts regarding the "OIL" and the "LAMPS LIT" (in the "IN THE NIGHT" time period, aka the 7-YR TRIB); see Exodus 27:20-21 - "20 And you are to command the Israelites to bring you pure oil of pressed olives for the light, to keep the lamps burning continually. 21 In the Tent of Meeting, outside the veil that is in front of the Testimony, Aaron and his sons are to tend the lamps before the LORD from evening until morning. This is to be a permanent statute for the Israelites for the generations to come."

--"IN THE NIGHT" (aka the TRIB YRS; "the DOTL" [time-period] ARRIVES like a thief "IN THE NIGHT")... WE (the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY) will not step ONE FOOT INTO!

--see again, Lk12:35,36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom!) THEN the meal [G347]... but note the "WATCHES OF THE NIGHT" in this context, as well as the "KEEP THE LAMPS BURNING" in v.35 of this context (as well as its parallel passage of Matthew 24:37-51). This AIN'T US [/"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"]!! He will have been ALREADY-WED by the point in time of THIS LK12:35-44 scene (which is His RETURN to the EARTH)




[Matt24:14 / 26:13 is that which WILL BE being preached in the future TRIB YRS]

There is not even a hint of a war zone or any such tribulation in the 10 Virgin parable

"...when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"""
In the pretrib rapture it is the setting of the groom fetching the bride.
So in the pretrtib rapture the groom does leave the wedding to get the bride.

EXACTLY like the earthly bride and groom dynamic in the jewish wedding

 

[godlovejoy]

FreeGrace2 said:
Could you point me to any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven?

Excuse me, but no, they haven't. EVER. I keep asking for at least one, but I've NEVER seen any.


If you are so aware of any of these "passages", why do you want to send me on a goose-chase? Can't you just quote or at least cite 1 verse/passage?

Why is that so difficult? If you really believe that Jesus does take resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, and there is a verse or passage saying so, why are you being so coy about it?


OK, so this is your default. Just claim those who don't believe your view "really can't" understand.

Well, that IS an easy out.

EVERY time I ask for verses clearly showing Jesus taking a group with glorified bodies to heaven, I get these kinds of ridiculous comments.

But thanks for providing the evidence that you DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE for such an idea.

FreeGrace2 said:
Could you point me to any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven?

Excuse me, but no, they haven't. EVER. I keep asking for at least one, but I've NEVER seen any.


If you are so aware of any of these "passages", why do you want to send me on a goose-chase? Can't you just quote or at least cite 1 verse/passage?

Why is that so difficult? If you really believe that Jesus does take resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, and there is a verse or passage saying so, why are you being so coy about it?


OK, so this is your default. Just claim those who don't believe your view "really can't" understand.

Well, that IS an easy out.

EVERY time I ask for verses clearly showing Jesus taking a group with glorified bodies to heaven, I get these kinds of ridiculous comments.

But thanks for providing the evidence that you DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE for such an idea.

We should be helping One another to know the truth if we truly love God so what about these verses that Jesus spoke in John chapter 6:37-40

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Notice that Jesus says those that believe will be raised up at the last day and he says this two times in a row which means a lot. The last day is the Resurrection or what people are calling the rapture.....🙏🏼

 

[Marilyn]

That's only until second coming, then it is Earth which becomes a permanent home.

Heaven will remain where it is but eternity is spent upon the Earth and The Father and Son will be upon the Earth as well. That doesn't mean no one can go to heaven during the eternity but the primary home will be the Earth according to various scriptures. Rev 21-22 indicate this but there are other scriptures as well. Basically heaven is a temporary place for God and the angels and the spirits of the dead. Eventually all will inhabit the Earth.

1Ch_23:25 For David said, The LORD God of Israel hath given rest unto his people, that they may dwell in Jerusalem for ever:

Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Psa_37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

Psa_37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Psa_37:22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.

Mat_5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Job_19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.



It is not man who will go to heaven to dwell with the Father and Jesus in the eternity but the Father and Jesus dwelling with Man upon the new Earth!

Heaven is the temporary dwelling place for God, angels and the spirits of the dead saints. The eternal home for all is the new Earth.

Most of those scriptures refer to the nation of Israel (inherit the earth) and to the OT saints who will inherit the city.

The only scripture referring to the Body of Christ, Rev. 5: 10 can refer to ruling `above or on,` the earth. Thus we need more scriptures to find out with. I gave them to you.


Our inheritance, our hope, our place, our citizenship, all of which are IN HEAVEN.

`...to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you.` (1 Peter 1: 4 )
` ...because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of truth..`(Col. 1: 5)
` ...and raised us up together and made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.`(Eph. 2: 6)
` For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly await for the saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.` (Phil. 3: 20)
(New King James)

Also note that the New Jerusalem, (inheritance for the OT saints, Heb. 11: 16) comes `DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN FROM GOD.` God does not come down, however His authority will be on the earth and in the city through His chosen ones.

As to the Body of Christ we are with the Lord on His own throne in the highest. The Lord is pre-eminent in all things and all realms.

Christ is not below where Lucifer ruled.
Christ is not below the angels.
Christ is not below where Satan and his fallen angels rule now.
Christ is not ruling from His footstool - earth.

What you are suggesting does NOT come from above, but `is earthly, sensual, and demonic.` (James 3: 15)

The Father has seated Christ far above all things and all realms in this age and the one to come.

`(Father) seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. And has put all things under His feet.` (Eph. 1: 20 - 22)

 

[ewq1938]

Most of those scriptures refer to the nation of Israel (inherit the earth) and to the OT saints who will inherit the city.

The saved from OT and NT will be ones living in new Earth with God.

 

[Jackson123]

2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

What is the day of the Lord in verse 2 mean

Steven and stefanny when to Los Angeles they are visit they friend

They is plural pronoun for Steven and stefanny

(1)Concerning the coming of our Lord and our gathering to Him ..........(2) that day of the Lord

2 is plural pronouns of 1

 

[Evmur]

Remember what the Lord said to the Thessalonians - ``But you brethren are NOT IN DARKNESS THAT THIS DAY SHOULD OVERTAKE YOU AS A THIEF.` (1 Thess. 5: 4)

It is to those in darkness that the Lord will come as a thief.

So no - one will be left behind then

...that's what Paul said.

 

[Evmur]

Now remember that the revelation of the Body of Christ was NOT given until the Lord gave it to the Apostle Paul. (Eph. 3) Thus what you have quoted is NOT to do with the Body of Christ.

When Paul wrote Thessalonians he was addressing the body of Christ

 

[Absolutely]

I think I can help you out Abs.
Regarding the parable of the 10 virgins:

The Groom has already come as a thief and snatched his Bride away to his Father's house. The rapture has already happened. The bride and groom are now at the Father's house for a seven day honeymoon.

These 10 virgins do NOT accompany the Bride and Groom back to the Father's house. There is a time delay as word gets around the villiage and these 10 bridesmaids DISCOVER that the Bride has been snatched away. Their job however is to go around the village and announce to everyone the wedding (banquet supper festivities) is coming.

Matthew 25:1 "Then" aka "At that time".......what time?
The time of the tribulation Jesus has just laid out in the Olivet discourse.

Hope that helps. I get just as confused about this parable as anyone else and I finally hit on some good information. Opinions vary but I think this is the best answer to all the outstanding questions.

Jesus is mo longer the groom and the bride has become the wife at the end of the trib ( as declared in rev 19).

Mat 25
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

The virgins are waiting for the GROOM.
That would remove any postrib timeframe.
Not only that, the entire parable is framed in;
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

But lets back up.
Lets get the context BEFORE the parable
Mat 24. Jesus Lays out the trib and the second coming....THEN SHIFTS TO PRETRIB.
37 BUT, as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were BEFORE THE FLOOD they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
1Then, ( before the flood...pretrib) shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

( Jesus speaking in the same breath as mat 24) (His sermon did not have chapters originally).
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. ( DOOR SHUT AGAIN...as in noah).

Door shut with groom and virgins inside.
Marriage chamber...bedroom.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

How can all that be wrong?????

Vivid...vivid...pretrib rapture picture.

 

[Absolutely]

You said in reference to my scripture Rev. 3: 21.

`All those letters have something like that addressing the reward overcomers receive so the throne is a reference to the Earthly thrown of eternity:

Rev_22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:`

I see your thinking however the Body of Christ has been promised a heavenly inheritance.

Our inheritance, our hope, our place, our citizenship, all of which are IN HEAVEN.

`...to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you.` (1 Peter 1: 4 )

` ...because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of truth..`(Col. 1: 5)

` ...and raised us up together and made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.`(Eph. 2: 6)

` For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly await for the saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.` (Phil. 3: 20)

(New King James)

Wow
Good find
I may borrow that.
Lol

 

[Absolutely]

Totally agree. All of the "Be in Readiness" Parables are all Placed in a setting when Jesus returns as an already Wed bridegroom back to the earth.
Glad to have you back don't be such a stranger.....

huh???
Be ready after the gt???
Am i hearing this right????

 

[Absolutely]

Totally agree. All of the "Be in Readiness" Parables are all Placed in a setting when Jesus returns as an already Wed bridegroom back to the earth.
Glad to have you back don't be such a stranger.....

ok,
How is he still the groom AFTER the wedding.
As far as i know there is no such thing.
It would be like calling the wife the bride after the wedding.
All that terminology needs to be changed.

 

[Absolutely]

No.

The TEXT states (repeatedly), "... what the Spirit saith unto the churchES" (which is not the same thing as saying "to the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY").

"...the churchES" are made up of both those who are actually saved believers, AND of those who come in His name but who are not actually vitally connected with Christ (i.e. are not actually saved).

It is ONLY the ones (in the text) who are said to be "[to him that] OVERCOMETH" (7x in these 2 chpts) who are the "SAVED" persons [see also 1Jn5:4 "overcometh"]

I notice (and may the readers take note) how you deliberately LEFT OUT the following verse (which shows what I'm saying is the case):

Rev2:11 -

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."


...again, 7x "he that OVERCOMETH"/"to him that OVERCOMETH" (refers to those who are the "SAVED" amongst "the churchES"... NOT referring to those who are more "worthy" Christians". NO.)

Again, "our Rapture" is NOT a "REWARD" for MORE-WORTHY Christians; Instead, it is the birthright of EVERY MEMBER OF "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... the "glorification" aspect of our salvation, which all three aspects are a PACKAGE DEAL (justification, sanctification, glorification), a "package deal" we receive upon trusting in Christ and His finished work alone for salvation.



Again, in Revelation 2-3, these letters are "[what the Spirit saith] unto the churchES" (which is NOT identical to saying, "[what the Spirit saith] unto the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"--which indeed is made up of ONLY believers... not so "the churchES," see [only "he that OVERCOMETH" is the "SAVED" amongst "the churchES"--study again Rev2:11, quoted above, as one evidence of this fact)





FIVE of the virgins (the "foolish") are NOT SAVED; These "10 Virgins" are NOT whom He is coming "TO MARRY" (nor even the "FIVE [wise] VirginS")... These are NOT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY [singular]" (<--ALL those having come to faith "in this present age [singular]"); rather, they pertain to "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" (aka "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom" and who [of them] will ENTER that MK age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth... NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]")



In these passages, the one "taken" is taken away IN JUDGMENT (just as in Noah's day); and the one "left" is left to enter the earthly MK age in mortal bodies, capable of reproducing/bearing children (just as in Noah's day); Compare Daniel 2:35c and Gen9:1 "[actively] FILL [/FILLED] the [whole] earth" to that of Matt24:37-51 (and its parallel in Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom!) THEN the meal [G347; and its occurrences elsewhere, like as found in Matt8:11 and its parallel, speaking of the EARTHLY MK age: re: G347 - "Matthew 8:11 — in the last two passages used figuratively of participation in future blessedness in the Messiah's kingdom." - https://biblehub.com/greek/347.htm ]



Perhaps it's *you* that needs all that (what I've pointed out) to be "changed"... to fit your "only WORTHY Christians are RAPTURED" narrative.



Scripture does NOT indicate this.

Only by your wading neck-deep into Covenant Theology, as you do, can you come up with these blurred-together recipes, turning things into one big mish-mash of mush.


I do realize the "rewards" will differ (per 2Cor5:10 and 1Cor3:12-15); but again, "WE shall ALL be changed IN A MOMENT, in the twinkling of an eye" refers to what will occur at the time of "our Rapture" (which "RAPTURE" pertains SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... not to all OTHER saints of all OTHER time periods; WE will be "SNATCHED / CAUGHT UP" as "ONE BODY" at ONE singular point in time, for the PURPOSE [for one] of the "UNIONed-with Him" thing, i.e. pertaining to the "MARRIAGE" itself [not "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" which is the EARTHLY MK age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth; Rev19:7 DISTINCT FROM Rev19:9, which v.9 ONLY states that the "INVITING/INVITATION" [TO the SUPPER (aka earthly MK age)] has been completed[!]... not that the SUPPER has taken place yet--only the "MARRIAGE" itself will have been [UP IN Heaven], by that point ["the marriage came... the bride prepared" ("righteousness of saints" ... see also 1Cor1:30-31 "he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord," and Rom7:4, and Phil1:11 "having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which is BY MEANS OF JESUS CHRIST, unto the glory and praise of God." (as part of Paul's prayer)]);

...but again, "our Rapture" is NOT one of the "REWARDS"... but our birthright... part of the package deal that comes with having trusted Christ and His finished work alone, for salvation (and pertaining SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [not all in "the churchES"--among which many are not actually SAVED PERSONS / not vitally connected with CHRIST--huge difference!!])

You are talking yourself into a corner. Here is your quote;
"""[what the Spirit saith] unto the churchES" (which is NOT identical to saying, "[what the Spirit saith] unto the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"--which indeed is made up of ONLY"""

You then turn around and say;

"""He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."""

That indicates you are on the wrong path.
One minute "churches" are framed as not the church.
The next minute "churches" are quoted to prove they are overcomers.

 

[Absolutely]

Totally agree. All of the "Be in Readiness" Parables are all Placed in a setting when Jesus returns as an already Wed bridegroom back to the earth.
Glad to have you back don't be such a stranger.....

Your basic premise ( that comes out of nowhere) is;
Church= good
"Churches" = bad.

Ok
Rev 2;1 Greek rendeing;
To the messenger of the called out ones.(church)
Rev 2;4
".... Let him hear what the Spirit says to the called out ones."(church) or (churches)

It is the EXACT SAME greek word.
G1577

Your entire premise is incorrect