Does Christianity Support Multiverse Theory?

[JStates]

There is talk that there may be as many as 11 universes coexisting, this lines up with an old Hebrew text that agrees and adds there are 4 man can know, Paul spoke of being taken to the third heaven.

There's a huge different between having AREAS of one universe/reality and actual parallel universes in a multiverse system.

The three heavens actually make sense in either a globe or flat earth cosmology (whichever you believe) without resorting to other universes to explain it. The first heaven (from Genesis 1) is clearly the atmosphere. In the globe view, the second heaven would be outer space and the third heaven would actually be Paradise/Heaven.

In the flat earth (Biblical) cosmology which I adhere to, the first heaven is the atmosphere and the second and third heavens are both areas of the spiritual realm, third heaven being Paradise where God's throne is. I talk about this in my YouTube video called "A Biblical Cosmology." Some of the prophets were caught up to what appears to be the second heaven, because they saw God's throne through a firmament above them. Then we have Paul who was caught up to the third heaven. Why second heaven for the prophets, but third heaven for Paul? Because the prophets did not have the cleansing shield of the Holy Spirit. They could not have survived being directly in the presence of God. (My understanding, perhaps it is flawed.)

Anyways, I do not see how there can be any possibility of a multiverse without embracing moral relativism. The movie "The One" has some interesting commentary on the idea of parallel universes. In the movie, the antagonist is going from universe to universe killing his alter egos because their life force gets divided between the survivors. Becoming "The One" would make him unbelievably powerful. Anyways, the movie puts it something like this:

"In one universe, you're not married. In another, you are married. In another, you are married to a different woman. In another, you are married to a man."

The idea that every choice or variation spawns a different universe is not only absurd, it negates all morality. Why should I, HERE, be a good little Christian if some version of me out there is a hedonistic, philandering, narcissistic scumbag? Why shouldn't I be THAT version of me?

Plus, the stupidity of the infinite universes concept is truly staggering. INFINITE. UNIVERSES. And of course the establishment tells us that everything arose by accident over 14.5 billion years or some such rubbish. In other words, there would be universes out there where humanity never existed and intelligent life evolved to look like Teletubbies(tm). Because every possibility would have to be a reality.

It's degenerate moral relativism disguised as science. Science fiction actually. It's really more like philosophy. The idea of parallel universes will never be proven.

 

[Lynx]

I wonder if there is another me in another dimension doing the same thing I'm doing? or feels what I feel?

Somewhere there's somebody
Who looks just like you do
Acts just like you do
Feels the same way
Somewhere there's a person
In a faraway place
With a different name
And a face that looks like you

Do you dream about who it might be?
Do you wonder where you are?
In a distant foreign country
Riding 'round in another car


Hmm... Yeah, Eddie Brickell never was trustworthy anyway.

 

[Kafziel]

What makes you think that God is flawed just because man disobeyed the God's instruction and listened to the woman who listened to the lies of the lowest made creature? Wouldn't that mean it is man and woman that were wrong and not God? Wouldn't that mean that God is merciful because he understood that they disobeyed because the woman was lied to and became possessed, and the man disobeyed because he loved the woman and did not know she was possessed?

Well the question is why does a flawless creator create so many flawed creatures? I mean he even has the power to undo them according to Christians because he exists in all times. Yet he continues to make flawed things and allows them to persist and creates all this suffering just so he can have something to love him. I mean Christianity may not be entirely wrong but our creator is not perfect, there is nothing that indicates he's perfect.

 

[Kafziel]

What 'religion' is of your choosing?

Actually God is alllowing satan to carry on, yet God is fully in control even of satan.

That's why people need to be born again.

Good, be done with religion and find that living relationship with God through Jesus sacrifice for your sins at Calvary. Find also the free gift of eternal life due to the perfect obedience of Jesus Christ in your stead.

Well I did choose this religion for the rules. I saw a spirit of some kind exit my body one day while meditating, it looked like water with a human form. I looked around for explanations and discerned that if a religion was written by the divine it would have the best rules. So you could say I chose Christianity for two reasons, mention of the "living water" and the best rules I could find of what I studied.

I don't know, I just don't know if Christianity is the true religion. I believe there is some truth to it though, a framework and way of understanding, I don't think I will take it as gospel anymore but merely an inspiration for living. I will still stick with the rules though.

At Cavalry?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Well the question is why does a flawless creator create so many flawed creatures? I mean he even has the power to undo them according to Christians because he exists in all times. Yet he continues to make flawed things and allows them to persist and creates all this suffering just so he can have something to love him. I mean Christianity may not be entirely wrong but our creator is not perfect, there is nothing that indicates he's perfect.

Have you considered that they were not created flawed originally? Yes, moreover they were given dominion over the creatures. How then be it that they listened to their inferior?

Yet this shows also the great mercy of God and his salvation for they did not disobey purely out of a rebellious spirit. The serpent he broke his own spirit, he twisted and tormented and spliced his own breath of life into three lies and cast them into the woman. It is then that the woman became possessed and did see the fruit wrongly in her mind. Adam, oh Adam he loved the woman, yes he loved her very much, he did not know that she had become possessed and he ate too. God warned them what would happen, yes God told them.

Yet there is salvation in that Adam and the woman later called Eve acknowledged their evil in disobeying God and acknowledged that God's judgement was correct. A chance back if woman will only desire one man and obey him, and a chance back if man toil by the sweat of his brow and strive against the earth. They will pay the curse upon them of sorrowful childbirth and the curse to return to the dust.

To the serpent, no chance back for what he did in breaking the spirit, yes in breaking his very own spirit, the breath of life which Lord God gave him on the day he made him. How tormented it was when the serpent twisted the spirit to forge the first demons, his three lies in his mouth which remain even still. Not a chance for the serpent who earned the names Liar and Enemy on that day. No salvation for the father of lies, no chance for the first murderer, no chance for him. The Lord Jesus will slay his army by the edge of the Sword of his mouth, and the Father himself will send fire from heaven down upon and kill the dragon and cast him away to torment forever, and even forever. Praise Jesus he is the Son born by the Spirit of God, the Promise embodied, he will cut the wicked down and he will also deliver the just to salvation, yes, praise Jesus!

 

[JStates]

Well the question is why does a flawless creator create so many flawed creatures? I mean he even has the power to undo them according to Christians because he exists in all times. Yet he continues to make flawed things and allows them to persist and creates all this suffering just so he can have something to love him. I mean Christianity may not be entirely wrong but our creator is not perfect, there is nothing that indicates he's perfect.

You err, friend, not knowing the Scriptures. But I will say I like your logical and inquisitive mind as demonstrated by many of your threads.

Read the Genesis Creation account, starting in Genesis 1, preferably in the KJV. Notice that God says everything was "very good" when He was done creating it. And man had been made in God's image, perfect and sinless. The Bible is also clear that animals were created "with their seed in them" in other words, fully formed and capable of procreation. If they had remained perfect and uncorrupted, their offspring also would have been perfect and uncorrupted. Same for humanity.

But God didn't simply want a bunch of biological automatons. He wanted PEOPLE with free will and the ability to make choices for themselves. So the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was placed in the garden within Eden and Adam and Eve were told not to partake. Literally there was only one sin they could choose to commit.

The Tree wasn't merely "knowledge" in the sense of head knowledge or book learning, by the way. This was something that Satan omitted to mention. It was actual, EXPERIENTIAL knowledge of good and evil. In other words, you will KNOW evil because you have BECOME evil having eaten of it.

Adam and Eve fell, and their offspring were also corrupted. Free will had not been given to the animals. All of material Creation had been made with man at the center for God's purposes. The whole Creation was also corrupted by human sin at the Fall:

Rom_8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

The Creator IS actually perfect. Which is partly why we don't see Him around. He cannot taint Himself by associating with fallen creatures like us. This is where the Gospel comes in. We would all be damned if Jesus Christ were not the Mediator between a perfect God and fallen Man.

 

[Kafziel]

You err, friend, not knowing the Scriptures. But I will say I like your logical and inquisitive mind as demonstrated by many of your threads.

Read the Genesis Creation account, starting in Genesis 1, preferably in the KJV. Notice that God says everything was "very good" when He was done creating it. And man had been made in God's image, perfect and sinless. The Bible is also clear that animals were created "with their seed in them" in other words, fully formed and capable of procreation. If they had remained perfect and uncorrupted, their offspring also would have been perfect and uncorrupted. Same for humanity.

But God didn't simply want a bunch of biological automatons. He wanted PEOPLE with free will and the ability to make choices for themselves. So the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was placed in the garden within Eden and Adam and Eve were told not to partake. Literally there was only one sin they could choose to commit.

The Tree wasn't merely "knowledge" in the sense of head knowledge or book learning, by the way. This was something that Satan omitted to mention. It was actual, EXPERIENTIAL knowledge of good and evil. In other words, you will KNOW evil because you have BECOME evil having eaten of it.

Adam and Eve fell, and their offspring were also corrupted. Free will had not been given to the animals. All of material Creation had been made with man at the center for God's purposes. The whole Creation was also corrupted by human sin at the Fall:

Rom_8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

The Creator IS actually perfect. Which is partly why we don't see Him around. He cannot taint Himself by associating with fallen creatures like us. This is where the Gospel comes in. We would all be damned if Jesus Christ were not the Mediator between a perfect God and fallen Man.

Well then beasts are perfect then. They know no good and evil. I think that's the point of the story. We were just our fairly smart selves and knew no evil. Just pure and natural. We did what our hearts told us to do without question, like the rest of the creatures. You can't do evil if you don't even know what evil is.

That gets me thinking though, if Adam and Eve knew no evil how could they have sinned?

 

[Lynx]

Multiverse is popular now because of Marvel movies, but they weren't the first who did multiverse... and DEFINITELY not the best. Many others have told much better stories involving multiple universes.

Star Trek's "Dark Mirror" series is especially good. Tiberius was a good anti-Kirk. The dark universe version of Troi, being empathic, was an excellent torturer.

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

Somewhere there's somebody
Who looks just like you do
Acts just like you do
Feels the same way
Somewhere there's a person
In a faraway place
With a different name
And a face that looks like you

Do you dream about who it might be?
Do you wonder where you are?
In a distant foreign country
Riding 'round in another car


Hmm... Yeah, Eddie Brickell never was trustworthy anyway.

HAHA, never heard that song but I like it . Sometimes I wonder if the songwriters know something we don't some of the lyrics always seem to express questionable things .

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

Have you considered that they were not created flawed originally? Yes, moreover they were given dominion over the creatures. How then be it that they listened to their inferior?

Yet this shows also the great mercy of God and his salvation for they did not disobey purely out of a rebellious spirit. The serpent he broke his own spirit, he twisted and tormented and spliced his own breath of life into three lies and cast them into the woman. It is then that the woman became possessed and did see the fruit wrongly in her mind. Adam, oh Adam he loved the woman, yes he loved her very much, he did not know that she had become possessed and he ate too. God warned them what would happen, yes God told them.

Yet there is salvation in that Adam and the woman later called Eve acknowledged their evil in disobeying God and acknowledged that God's judgement was correct. A chance back if woman will only desire one man and obey him, and a chance back if man toil by the sweat of his brow and strive against the earth. They will pay the curse upon them of sorrowful childbirth and the curse to return to the dust.

To the serpent, no chance back for what he did in breaking the spirit, yes in breaking his very own spirit, the breath of life which Lord God gave him on the day he made him. How tormented it was when the serpent twisted the spirit to forge the first demons, his three lies in his mouth which remain even still. Not a chance for the serpent who earned the names Liar and Enemy on that day. No salvation for the father of lies, no chance for the first murderer, no chance for him. The Lord Jesus will slay his army by the edge of the Sword of his mouth, and the Father himself will send fire from heaven down upon and kill the dragon and cast him away to torment forever, and even forever. Praise Jesus he is the Son born by the Spirit of God, the Promise embodied, he will cut the wicked down and he will also deliver the just to salvation, yes, praise Jesus!

Good questions I have more for you but will refrain.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Good questions I have more for you but will refrain.

You have not asked a question, but you may.

 

[Mii]

I mean I get the rules are nice

Whatever do you mean by the rules being nice?

Is this your reaction because you don't like people's responses?



Even if you take this position on the existence of evil (which I don't discount as a point of consternation) what now?

There's nowhere else to go...and even if you do let your spirit/mind's eye travel into the darker possibilities and discount Christianity as "living on a cloud" etc. etc...what is reality then? How do you really know? Can you truly put true Christianity on the same level as belief in fairy tales honestly? I can't.

There's only one thing that pricks the conscience, one thing that needles you when everything else is assuaged and I think it's the Lord. What else would it be really? If some say it's not God, it's certainly a lot more powerful than anything else and that should be a serious point of consideration to "lean not to your own understanding..."

 

[Kafziel]

Whatever do you mean by the rules being nice?

Is this your reaction because you don't like people's responses?



Even if you take this position on the existence of evil (which I don't discount as a point of consternation) what now?

There's nowhere else to go...and even if you do let your spirit/mind's eye travel into the darker possibilities and discount Christianity as "living on a cloud" etc. etc...what is reality then? How do you really know? Can you truly put true Christianity on the same level as belief in fairy tales honestly? I can't.

There's only one thing that pricks the conscience, one thing that needles you when everything else is assuaged and I think it's the Lord. What else would it be really? If some say it's not God, it's certainly a lot more powerful than anything else and that should be a serious point of consideration to "lean not to your own understanding..."

I'm sorry I went off in a mental tangent. Don't worry about it. I would delete it if I could because that's not the point of this particular thread.

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

You have not asked a question, but you may.

Hehe, well I made some of your questions bold. I was wondering what you mean by those bits and yes I do have more questions lol.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Hehe, well I made some of your questions bold. I was wondering what you mean by those bits and yes I do have more questions lol.

In the beginning when the Lord God made man he gave also to man dominion over the whole creation, over the animals, the plants, and the earth. So rather than ask the question of "why did God let mankind fall?" Which implies that God is at fault, it is more prudent to ask; "why did man listen to a being that was inferior to him, in fact a being that man was put in charge over?" This question is also answered. The reason man ate is because he loved the woman and did not know she had become possessed. The reason woman ate is because she was demon possessed by the serpent. This leaves the ultimate fault on Satan who not only became first murderer in doing this thing but also the father of lies by forging those three lies, which still are in his mouth until the end. God gave the breath of life, the spirit, to all things living, this is what makes something alive. What the serpent did in the Garden is very terrible! To make the first demons and the source of all demons he had to break and twist his own breath of life into three pieces and cast them into the woman's mind. For this reason, the serpent is cursed above all the other animals, he has no chance to ever be saved, no chance to ever repent, and the prophecy was given that the Lord Jesus will come and slay his army at the end and God will kill him and throw him away into the lake of fire to suffer torment forever and ever and even forever and ever, in Jesus name, the King and Savior born and risen and to come and reign forever, amen.

 

[Mii]

I'm sorry I went off in a mental tangent. Don't worry about it. I would delete it if I could because that's not the point of this particular thread.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

To answer on topic...I believe that God sees the conditional as well as the actual. The "mutli-verse" may be understood by him but is entirely beyond our capability except to postulate it's existence. As far as I can tell this is no different than "what would have happened if..."

In order to be all knowing, it is reasonable to me that he would be able to see all possibility. Same with all powerful.

Being able to bring about prophecy strongly suggests that this is the case becaue how on earth did it occur?

Idk, I don't spend too much time thinking about it because I don't think we are really capable of understanding it. Free will seems "insecure" from a limited human perspective I'll grant but I don't think we have autonomous free will (quite the contrary actually). We have free will within pre-defined limits and all possibility within that construct would be known. Similar to how video game creators operate...even hacking is understood by most creators I'd assume. I don't want to get into that but understanding the conditions within his construct in it's entirety and cause and effect omnisciently?

Doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility.

but what does multi-verse theory have to do with us "really"? It doesn't seem to serve any good purpose that I can tell to focus on it overmuch. We have a very limited understanding of the conditional tense in life and can rarely see past a few decisions...we are usually just given insight/wisdom/foreknowledge to each individual situation.

I feel like I'm rambling now. I'm in a bit of pain, so perhaps some of this has been useful to you. Maybe I'll get back at some point and try again. The film "Next" is coming to mind for some reason...I tend to think if human beings can imagine something that, being how we are SO VERY limited, it isn't unreasonable for me to assume that whoever made all this and created that imagination in the first place is vastly beyond anything we could possibly hope to understand. That's him though and not us...we get a teeny tiny bit and when we go out on a limb over deep waters...we are liable to drown unless led there in the first place. Certainly the possibility that the enemy abuses this "reaching" quality about human beings in order to lead them astray. This topic is most certainly "a limb". Not a "lie" per se...but it lends itself to error due to the scope.

 

[p_rehbein]

If we cannot find God through the world then the teachings of the bible are lost to many. Why would you love God when you think so lowly of his many creations? We are meant to live in this world, and that is clearly God's will. If we cannot use examples found in the world to find a way to him then he has put us in the wrong place, and God is not known for his mistakes.

You will NEVER find salvation/God through the ways of the world. If that is where you have been looking, then that is the reason you are "unsure" of your spiritual status. You should not be. If you think the world will lead you to salvation, then you will find yourself lost when time ends.

I strongly suggest you begin to forget the "world" and focus your attention on God, His Word, and the Lord Jesus. Jesus is the ONLY WAY to God and eternal life. Nothing in the world will EVER lead you to God. The Holy Spirit is the ONLY one who can ever lead you to God.

The more I read of your thoughts, the more I believe you to be the very danger I first thought you were. I sincerely pray no one here is misled by your "worldly" ideologies.

I will pray for you, but I fear it may be too late......even God will turn one over to their own selves IF they continue to ignore His Truth.

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

In the beginning when the Lord God made man he gave also to man dominion over the whole creation, over the animals, the plants, and the earth. So rather than ask the question of "why did God let mankind fall?" Which implies that God is at fault, it is more prudent to ask; "why did man listen to a being that was inferior to him, in fact a being that man was put in charge over?" This question is also answered. The reason man ate is because he loved the woman and did not know she had become possessed. The reason woman ate is because she was demon possessed by the serpent. This leaves the ultimate fault on Satan who not only became first murderer in doing this thing but also the father of lies by forging those three lies, which still are in his mouth until the end. God gave the breath of life, the spirit, to all things living, this is what makes something alive. What the serpent did in the Garden is very terrible! To make the first demons and the source of all demons he had to break and twist his own breath of life into three pieces and cast them into the woman's mind. For this reason, the serpent is cursed above all the other animals, he has no chance to ever be saved, no chance to ever repent, and the prophecy was given that the Lord Jesus will come and slay his army at the end and God will kill him and throw him away into the lake of fire to suffer torment forever and ever and even forever and ever, in Jesus name, the King and Savior born and risen and to come and reign forever, amen.

What do you mean by, still in his mouth until the end? How did he break and twist his own breath of life? And what do you mean by break and twist his own breath of life? By speaking lies? And does that suggest that us humans when we lie we also create demons? Do you think the woman knew she was possessed?

 

[Kafziel]

You will NEVER find salvation/God through the ways of the world. If that is where you have been looking, then that is the reason you are "unsure" of your spiritual status. You should not be. If you think the world will lead you to salvation, then you will find yourself lost when time ends.

I strongly suggest you begin to forget the "world" and focus your attention on God, His Word, and the Lord Jesus. Jesus is the ONLY WAY to God and eternal life. Nothing in the world will EVER lead you to God. The Holy Spirit is the ONLY one who can ever lead you to God.

The more I read of your thoughts, the more I believe you to be the very danger I first thought you were. I sincerely pray no one here is misled by your "worldly" ideologies.

I will pray for you, but I fear it may be too late......even God will turn one over to their own selves IF they continue to ignore His Truth.

Yes well nevermind that I can't believe things I do not believe are true and I try to think critically about what to believe. Just listen and believe, never mind pesky things like trying to make sense. The word of God also exists entirely within this world, so you cannot say the world itself cannot lead you to God, because then the word would not lead you to God.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

What do you mean by, still in his mouth until the end? How did he break and twist his own breath of life? And what do you mean by break and twist his own breath of life? By speaking lies? And does that suggest that us humans when we lie we also create demons? Do you think the woman knew she was possessed?

Yes, by speaking the three lies is how he did it so that answers your first questions. When humans speak a lie, they're not making demons they're just doing after Satan's manner like Jesus said in the Gospels. No, women it seems don't realize they're possessed, this is why a woman is not to teach but is supposed to desire one man and obey him, because then this is the right way, this is how God gets the woman back on the right track.